Amherst or Brown ED?

College Search & Selection
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I’ve been really scrambled trying to figure out my ED school for a while. I’ve narrowed it down to two – Amherst and Brown. They both offer open curriculums and accepting student bodies, two of my most important factors as I am not yet sure what I would like to major in. With that being said, I’m having a very difficult time choosing between the two.

Amherst’s campus is much more my speed, with sprawling greens and a real central feel. I like the seclusion, but am worried about a lack of access to the city, and feel as though what my 17 year old self wants (scared to even go to college), might feel different than what my 20/21 year old self wants (perhaps will tire of the 3 stores in Amherst). With that being said, I really like that I would be known around campus and that the professors would really be there to help me out. There’s a lot of money per student, and the career centers are extremely useful. But the size and resources are somewhat of a double edged sword for me, as I’ve gone to a private high school that is basically a LAC, and would maybe want to branch out past my comfort zone in the coming years. I’m also worried about the social life, as I would like to be going out on Friday and Saturday, and I just don’t know if the party scene (especially as a non-athlete) would allow for me to do that.

Brown’s campus is less my speed. Each section/quad area is cut by a city grid; there is not the same secluded, ‘own world’ feel that I love. But academically, it is well-known and the open curriculum, pass/fail grading, and ABC system are really appealing. It seems that people go there to learn and try new things/classes without a whole lot of pressure or the feeling like it’ll screw you in the long term. I also know that the advising system is weak – and that is scary. Brown feels like a much larger step into the real world, with a much bigger student body than I have ever experienced (400 vs. 7000). I’m not exactly sure if that’s what I want, but I also feel like it’s what I may need? I can’t be sheltered forever, and going to one of these LAC’s just feels as though my whole life I will have been in a protected bubble. The social life is much more ideal, as I know that greek life exists, and sports teams do not run the campus. I am, however, scared of feeling lost in a sea of so many students.

As you guys will probably consider admissions in your responses, here are a couple of important things. I go to a private high school that has pretty good relations with both of these schools. Academically, I am sound (3.97 and 1530). Also, both of my parents, grandfathers, and an uncle attended Brown, so I have some leg up there.

Let me know some thoughts.

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From what evidence did you deduce that the advising system at Brown is weak?

Academic advising is strong- your advisor freshman year is likely to be random, but by the time you figure out your concentration you will ask someone in that department to be your advisor- and it is likely to be someone HEAVILY invested in your success.

Career Services- it’s there for the taking. If you wait until April of senior year to wander over, then yes, the advising is weak because you will have missed deadlines for fellowships, some grad programs, many employment opportunities. So you need to be proactive, but I think there are tremendous resources, particularly with alums who volunteer to mentor students and provide shadowing and internship opportunities.

if you don’t like Providence- then it is what it is. But I think you are dealing with inaccurate information.

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Flip a coin. If after the flip, you want to flip again, then pick the other school.

If they really are equal, check with your GC to see if they have insights on which school has a better ED boost and if the legacy boost for Brown is stronger ED vs RD. Maybe that is a question your parents can ask Brown as well.

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Brown advising used to be poor but it is currently very good. If you are basing that idea on your parents’ experience, please know that that aspect has changed.

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Good to know! I’ve definitely heard some horror stories from both of my parents. Thank you.

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My son is a current sophomore and I have been very impressed with the advising. I have heard that Brown made a concerted effort to address its perceived past poor performance in this area. I was an undergrad there in the ‘80s and what he is experiencing is night and day from what I experienced.

Here is a link that might be of interest.

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Having read your post carefully, I think you have a strong preference for Amherst. Because of your legacy status, Brown also has frontrunner status, and you are both looking for reasons to like it (because you think you should) and dislike it (because it’s not calling to you.).

As for a couple of your arguments against Amherst…

It is smaller but still bigger than your high school. There is also a fair bit of mixing between classes at LACs, so while your class or cohort will be 500, you will pretty regularly be crossing paths with 2-3 times than number of people, with "refreshment " every September.

You are right - you probably will tire of your smaller school as the years go on. There are lots of ways to break that up, whether study abroad, summer internships, or weekend and vacation excursions to visit friends in cities. (And Providence is unlikely to be a top destination unless you have friends at Brown.) As my son said (coming from a situation like yours and having focused his search on rural LACS) “I have the rest of my life to live in an overprotective city.” As an aside, after graduation, he made good on that promise, as did pretty much all of his friends.

Many of my son’s friends chose big and urban schools because they were done with intense community, everyone knowing everyone, etc. My son, otoh, felt that worked well for him. I think that’s a real consideration and also a very personal one.

Both these schools are truly excellent. You can’t choose “better” but you can choose “best for you.”. Follow your heart on this. You’re not giving up anything by choosing Amherst.

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Just reading your notes about campus and how you feel, it seems Amherst is more your speed.

Both are obviously awesome.

You don’t have to ED. And why would you just for legacy? You have to spend four years there day after day.

It’s based on the 2021 cds but your test will show better at Amherst. It’s closer to the 75th percentile and only 2/3 of Amherst students submitted where 80% of Browns did.

Btw. I have two kids in school. One strong advising. One not.

Advising is a nice to have. It’s not class work. It’s advising on schedule, opportunities. One kid has professional advisors. The other uses profs. This is not a reason to choose or not choose a school.

I can only go by what you wrote but you clearly prefer Amherst. And it’s close to other schools including UMASS so it’s not secluded per se.

Good luck.

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Amherst is more than a three-store town, and the free bus service runs to Northampton on a very frequent basis, which adds some variety. I know both Amherst and Providence pretty well. Providence is a nice city, but it is a small city. After a while, most Bruins do tire of the options on Thayer Street.

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Providence is not Thayer street. There are eating/shopping options downtown, on Wayland, and regular bus and train service to Boston.

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Re Brown

You can also buy a hairshirt and bed of nails, if you’re interested in building character. :grinning: I’m not sure being part of a close-knit community is necessarily a bad thing.

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I know — my point is the Providence can become pretty familiar in not too much time and the sidewalks tend to roll up at night downtown. Wayland Square is nice, I’ll concede. Proximity to Boston is the real plus, though.

I guess I was provoked by the “three store” diss on Amherst. The Amherst-Northampton scene is strong — big live music scene, lots of good food, many places more geared to a student-age population, etc. The location shouldn’t fool anyone — the concentration of colleges there make it a great place to be a student. I could have said so without dissing Providence, I suppose.

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I’d say go Brown ED. I think that you have a decent chance at Amherst RD, if you don’t get into Brown ED (but I think you will). The reason I’m saying Brown is that I think you would benefit from challenging yourself with the larger environment of Brown, which isn’t really that big of a school.

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I love Amherst. I love the Amherst-Northampton vibe. I think a kid could be happy at Amherst AND Brown- but trading in obsolete stereotypes isn’t helpful!

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(Hope you don’t mind a brief tangent from the OP!)
I’m going through this process for the first time as a parent, and my daughter has both Brown and Amherst on her list, among others. Access to good advising is a criterion on her list, so I’m intrigued to see it downplayed!

She’s thinking she wants someone easily accessible who’s really engaged in helping her put together an optimal short term schedule with a long term in mind as well. And also someone who might let her know about opportunities she might not be aware of. Her thinking is that such advising would allow her to take best advantage of her class time. Sounds like a really-nice-to-have for her!

I guess I’m inclined to go along with her on this, but wonder if you could clarify what you mean by “professional advisors” vs. “profs”. Maybe these are models that could be of interest to her.

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Sure - and I can only speak from my experience as a parent.

My son is at Bama. They have a professional advisor. That means, the advisor is a paid staff member. They are not a Professor. This is their sole job. Interestingly, my nephew in-law is the same at Arizona - but in a different area. My son is in engineering and nephew-in-aw advises on poli-sci. They both do the same thing - that is ensure the kids are on the four year path, following the course flow to ensure all requirements are met, etc. I suppose if you asked them for extras, they’d know - like study abroad - at least where to refer you. My son has never asked. He’s not interested in even attending the mandatory appointment. Doesn’t feel he needs it. As he says if I don’t know what I need to take I don’t belong here.

My son gets a zillion emails from his school - about study abroad, co ops, extras like meetings with industry professionals, career guidance, research opportunities…you name it, he has read about it. If he wanted to find out more, he could.

At Charleston and my daughter is in a small cohort in Honors, but her advisor is a professor. Again, they go over course possibilities to hit a major - but I imagine he has more insight per se as her major is interdisciplinary. He can also do things such as - she needs a second major but he can approve two minors instead. She asks about study abroad - he mentioned a specific school to look at (and we will) and he knew if she does the Washington Semester, she’ll have to pay tuition to a more expensive school. It’s definitely better - perhaps it’s because she takes advantage.

I’m simply saying - you go to a school for what it can offer your child. I (personally) would not make that choice based on advising which is a once or twice a time semester (I’m sure can be more if she seeks it) - and if your child is resourceful and wants to know about special internships or study abroad, they simply need to read their emails and / or ask questions of professors and seek out the "experts’ on campus - for example, the study abroad office who will have their own advisors.

I was simply saying - it’s a nice to have - but you have kids that never take advantage of advising and do just fine. That sounds like the Brown messages we’ve read (of old it appears).

If it’s more important to your daughter, then it’s understandable.

But in the end, she’s going to have classes each semester and even a kid without advising will be able to figure out which they need to take…or should take. Even the kid without advising will figure out research opportunities, events to attend, and study abroad. If she really wants it, if she’s resourceful. she’ll figure that out on her own, even if it’s not quite as easy. She’ll see flyers, read signs, have people speak to her class and get myriad emails.

So I think a student should pick the right school. In your daughter’s case, if that’s important to her - that’s fair. Having a single bedroom was important to my son so that’s the sole reason he picked his school - but of course that impacts one daily when I don’t think advising does whatsoever.

Anyway, that’s why I made the comment. I can see at Brown, with the open curriculum, advising would be “more important.” - but whether it’s strong or not, I think the kids get through fine either way. They understand the requirements, they look at the course titles, and most importantly, they review the rate my professors online and make attendance decisions on that…and schedule (i.e. I want to take that…but it doesn’t fit into my schedule…this is my third choice, the prof ratings are so so…but it’s required and the only class I can really take) so I’ll take it. My daughter, especially, has had to “settle” - not because of advising but because of slim offerings and scheduling that doesn’t work.

Colleges do a lot of great marketing - but truth is, not every cool sounding class is always offered, has a high rated professor, or fits into the right timeframe.

I hope your daughter chooses the right school for her and if she’s applying to these type of schools, she’ll have great advising (whether formal or informal) if she seeks it out - hence why I wouldn’t have it as a factor. She may get advice from a prof that’s not her advisor - that happens too.

But, of course, we are all different so what matters to her is what matters most.

Good luck to her.

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I provide this also to make the OP aware that their concerns regarding Brown may be misguided or dated.

I don’t think you will find the importance of strong advisors “downplayed” from anyone who has attended (or had a kid attend) an open curriculum school with the resources and reach of schools like Brown or Amherst.

My kid just graduated from Brown and was very fortunate to have received great advice and mentoring throughout his time on campus. As a result he was able to construct a curriculum that both interested him intellectually but supported an entrepreneurial start up that has been funded through a combination of Brown VC, alum, and connections made through the school. The advice received was tailored to his needs and leveraged both the undergraduate and graduate resources at Brown as well as faculty contacts at other schools. This business is now up and running and has received a second round of financing.

I can’t overstate how important this “support” network has been and how particularly useful it is to maximize ones experience at an OC school where so many options are available.

With that said I am confident that either Amherst or Brown will provide you with great support.

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At most schools, the quality of the advising is dependent on the prof, the student, and desired outcome. And one student 's dream advisor is not so great for another. At most schools, you can change advisors to get that fit right.

Ime, with work, most students can develop a relationship with someone who can fulfill this role well. Some students may have to work harder than others to get to this point. Some students may not bother and may still be happy -or not.

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I think that ED is more needed at Amherst for an acceptance, whereas you still stand a decent chance RD at Brown. I have one data point that seems to corroborate with my observation above: my son was accepted at Brown RD but waitlist-ed at Amherst RD in 2019. You would most likely have a great college experience at either A or B.

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Thanks to those who posted in response to my off-topic question re: advising- your perspectives are so valuable. I had the chance to chat with my student, and she definitely wants to be able to connect with someone who will not simply reiterate information available via emails, websites, and course catalogs, but provide some nuanced understanding of the options that’s born from experience. I think it’s a self-aware criterion, and therefore not applicable to all students.

It’s a good point that perhaps advising becomes more important at schools with an open curriculum, like both Brown and Amherst, as well as another school on her list (Rochester).

It’s a heartening insight that such advising can be found through informal as well as formal channels- good to consider. I myself never took advantage of advising while in college, and I regret that.

Back to your originally scheduled programming!