With respect to these schools, this site may be of interest to you and the OP:
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@mass0158 I think you are operating with some misconceptions. Have you visited both schools to assess the “vibe”?
My son went to Brown and actually never went downtown. Thayer Street and the main street of Amherst are comparable, and Northampton is close to Amherst. Amherst is part of a 5 college consortium and the area is pretty active.
Advising at Brown is good, and needed for an open curriculum. My son had a lot of guidance. One thing to consider is that Brown does not have a house system, like Harvard and Yale. You can find roommates and create your own community of friends but it is not provided in the form of an upperclassmen’s house. I don’t know much about Amherst but of course it is smaller, so community is easy to find.
Both schools are excellent, diverse, and progressive.
I think you lean toward Amherst and don’t really understand what the area offers.
Full disclosure: Brown may be my favorite school, but I love the Amherst area. UMass is next door, Smith, Mt. Holyoke and Hampshire nearby, and if campus starts to feel small, you can spread your wings a bit in the area and take classes in the other schools too.
Legacy at Brown may help. From what you write, I think you might apply ED to Amherst if they are really equal in appeal, and then Brown RD if you don’t get in to Amherst.
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Thank you. You said it much better than I did above: the primary commercial areas adjacent to both schools are comparable! East Pleasant Street in Amherst is not lacking compared to Thayer Street in Providence. Providence has plenty to offer if you venture out of the College Hill bubble, to be sure, but there are lots of places to go in the Pioneer Valley, too. Having lived in or near both places, I will also attest that the scene in the Pioneer Valley is much more oriented toward college-age folks, given that higher education is the area’s main industry.
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Each first year student is assigned to both a faculty advisor and a peer-advisor for academics (called a Meiklejohn advisor). Brown tries to have both the faculty and student advisor in the same or similar academic field that the student indicated an interest in. I know they have to meet with the advisor before choosing classes each semester and I think there are other opportunities to meet with either/both, both formally and ad hoc.
Here is the link for the Meiklejohn program.
https://www.brown.edu/academics/college/advising/peer/
Once the student declares their concentration then they are assigned a faculty advisor from within their department.
And of course there are the residence hall student advisors as well.
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I love the house system and wish that Brown had that as well.
However, as you likely know, starting in sophomore year, students can join a program house where they can live for the remainder of their time with people who share their specific interests. Although there is a selection process, my understanding is that it is meant to be inclusive not exclusionary. At least that was how it worked for the one that my son was interested in.
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@inforapound I sent you a DM.
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Does anyone know if the 5 schools publish stats on this? i.e. how many kids actually do this, for how many classes, etc?
I ask bc when we looked at Amherst and were told that e.g. Holyoke was a 20-25m bus ride (per the student tour guide), it struck me as the kind of thing you’d have to really want to do.
I’m old enough to remember when juniors and seniors were the biggest influencers when it came to course selection at my LAC, especially “frosh” year. Unfortunately, LACs no longer have an edge over universities when it comes to interaction between first-years and upper-classmen; the all-freshman dorm has become a standard feature along with higher enrollments over the years. Williams has tried attaching first-years to upper-class dorms in sort of the way that Yale does, but the days when Amherst could fit half the college into one quadrangle are definitely long gone.
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There are about 30,000 undergrads in the 5-college consortium. I saw a stat on the Smith College website that indicated 5000 students in the consortium cross-register for courses each year, though I do not know the percentages by school.
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I don’t know. I have read, however, that Amherst & UMass might have some of the most cross-registration, probably due to the fact that they’re in the same city.
Right that makes sense. A bike ride way type thing.
I don’t know either, but any one of the five admissions offices should be able to tell you this.
The five college consortium does have a good website: https://www.fivecolleges.edu/
One of the most important things to know is that students can only cross-register for liberal arts courses (as defined by each school). So, that means, just as an example, that an Amherst student can’t take CS classes at U Mass.
Good FAQs here: https://www.fivecolleges.edu/about/faqs
@dadof4kids Can you add any insight to the number of Amherst students who do take classes at other campuses, and the ease of doing so?
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I don’t have any stats, but anecdotally I think quite a few. My daughter is a soph, and has a class at UMass this semester, her roommate took a UMass class second semester of her first year.
UMass is easy to get to, my daughter rides her bike. She could take a bus, but I believe she would have to wait for a bit, so it’s not worth it, plus she likes the exercise. I’m guessing she will bus it when the weather gets bad. Smith and MHC are going to have to be on a bus. The busses are free and frequent. D has gone to Northampton just to shop or eat, it’s a pretty cool little downtown right by Smith. She thought about doing Smith or MHC for a class, but nothing was calling to her more than the UMass class, and the UMass class was much more convenient so she did that instead. My guess is that is much more common.
Amherst and Brown were her top 2. Class size and early access to premed advising were probably the tipping point that had her ED to Amherst.
I can’t speak to Brown advising, but it is excellent at Amherst. She has also gotten some informal advising from a couple other profs, when she had more specific questions about their departments and possible majors. Premed advising starts in September of first year, which is pretty unusual. Her experience has been that most profs are happy to discuss their department (or anything really). Student emails are usually answered almost immediately. This is a very different experience than my son has at an Ivy (not Brown). She has also gotten informal advising from upperclassmen.
It’s boring, but South Hadley is a quick bus ride (between Amherst and Smith), and looks like every other suburb in America. Trader Joes, Target, Best Buy, Walmart, etc. So you aren’t in the middle of nowhere. You have all of the amenities of a larger city. And there are cool places to walk around and hang out in Amherst and in Northampton which isn’t difficult to get to.
She says the athlete/non-athlete divide is real, but also overblown. I think she has both in her friend group.
Dining is not great, even by LAC standards. I think it was better pre-Covid, but staffing and supply chain issues still plague their dining. My D has been outspoken enough I might dox her if I get specific, but if you have dietary restrictions send me a PM and I can give you more info. They don’t do a great job with that. It seems like it is getting better but not where it needs to be. This is her #1 complaint about the school.
She isn’t a partier, but there are parties going on every Friday and Saturday night. My impression is that it ends up being mostly Amherst kids, although I suppose some will venture to the other 4 colleges, and vice versa.
Amherst may be a better intermediate step between HS and real life than you realize. 2000 is much bigger than 400. And while you are known, it is not nearly the same thing as HS. There is a bit more of a safety net though (I can’t speak to Brown specifically, but can give you D’s experience). She had a bit of an issue where she became overwhelmed her first semester. Her prof reached out when she didn’t turn something in. Instead of docking her grade, the prof gave her some encouragement and a bit of a pep talk, and she got the paper turned in the next day. I do really feel like they care and she has a lot of people looking out for her.
Also on the mental health issue, that is a real issue everywhere. It was pre-Covid, and doubly so now. Amherst recognized this, and hired people for 7 new mental health positions this year. One nice thing about the college is that they really do care about their students, and they are financially in a position where they can throw a ton of money at a problem if it is necessary. I think this was a good example.
My view may be biased because D is premed, but I think there is a bit more of a grinder mentality at Amherst than Brown. It isn’t MIT or Swat, and I don’t think it is competitive. But everyone is really smart, and used to being the smartest kid in the room. So they put pressure on themselves to try to continue to perform on that level. At least that is what my D has done.
Good luck, I’m happy to answer any questions.
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My son is currently at Brown, and though you did not mention this, I wonder if class size might be important to you too coming from a smaller environment. We have learned unfortunately that the class size statistics that colleges provide can be pretty meaningless. My son has one small freshman seminar class of about 20, two classes in the 100-200 range and then one with about 500 students! I think large classes at Brown are not at all uncommon freshman and sophomore year and you might want to find out what the situation really is like at Amherst. In terms of advising, only have limited experience so far - my son said his faculty advisor was pretty good but the peer advisors (which Brown heavily relies on ) have been pretty useless. They are supposed to be available and help freshman all year long, but i think it is very hit or miss who you get - don’t think brown has a strong program for freshman support/residential life unlike some other schools. It does seem your legacy status may give you a pretty good ED boost at Brown. Just anecdotally I was surprised how many ED parents on the brown parents’ facebook page seem to have gone to Brown too…
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Both my nephew and niece attend Amherst. They absolutely love it. My niece met someone who encouraged her to take a class, she went to the professor, and they accommodated her.
IMO career advising is what you make of it. This summer, my nephew had to scramble for an internship because he wasnt proactive.
According to my BIL, Amherst can give you really good career outcomes if you are an above average student. You dont have to be at the tippy top.
If your high school is well-connected to both colleges, you may want to ask your counselor (does your school have dedicated college counselors?) whether each college is likely to admit you, based on how you fit their preferences.
I few random responses, some more objective than others:
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I detest the bubble talk … you’re going to college and it’s not real life no matter where you go, but among those who insist, Amherst and Brown are both bubbles. Ignore that line of thinking.
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Providence is a GREAT place to go to college and is a huge advantage over Western MA in my opinion. I like Western MA and Amherst is a really cute town, but it’s small and limited. Providence punches above its weight considerably and it’s very close to a lot of other great places … the south shore of Connecticut, the Cape, Boston, Newport and shoreline in almost every direction. Amherst is close to nothing. FWIW. My own take here departs decidedly from those comparing Amherst the town with College Hill and access to Providence. They are different places, each a fine example of a sort. But they are NOT comparable at all IMO.
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I shouldn’t argue campus aesthetics, but I’m going to indulge myself. My kids and I liked Amherst, and it was a finalist for the one who is presently at Brown. But I’ve always found the Amherst campus to be a little boring, underwhelming and vastly overrated (not even in my top 5 among NESCACS). College Hill is its own ecosystem and is replete with beautiful architecture (not just the Brown campus proper) and coffee shops and great little areas, like Wayland Square where my daughter lives (which @blossom mentioned). College Hill manages to offer tons of great restaurants and shopping and access to convenience (grocery stores, gyms, cell phone stores, banks, etc.) while maintaining a strong sense of charm and “coziness”. Location wise, it blows away every place her siblings attended. Providence is criminally underrated IMO. If you have not really explored the area, do so before deciding.
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First I’ve heard of bad advising. Not consistent with our experience at all. Sure, when compared to the LACs attended by her siblings, my Brunonian is probably managing an experience on a college campus that is a little less personal and intimate. But not by a lot, and Brown offers plenty to make up for it.
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This was closer to what my kid experienced in her post-bacc at Smith. It is spread out and, for me and for us, the bus system wouldn’t have been enough. Even with a car, I would not score the 5 college consortium as anything approaching the consortiums in Claremont or the Main Line in Philly. U Mass Amherst and Amherst may be a different story given their proximity. I think the idea of collapsing Amherst, Northampton and S. Hadley into a one-town experience is a real stretch.
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Thanks for confirming. I look forward to checking out the Claremont schools for a comparison in that regard.
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S22 is a freshman at UMass Amherst - it’s about 1 mile away from Amherst College so very doable by bus, bike or even a long walk. My sense is that the most cross registration is between those two schools.
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