@intparent Just want to clarify that swimming is not dictating where I’ll be applying, the only reason I mentioned it is because it’s my “hook” to get into these colleges. I’ve met both coaches and would be happy swimming at either program. As a side question, I know Swarthmore is very hard (which is why despite getting interest from the coach I’d rather not apply there), but is Amherst that difficult? By no means am I saying that balancing a sport & having a 4.0 is easy, but I thought it’s doable to try pre med and play a DIII sport. Would love more info if possible, as I’m considering just staying in Canada to do pre med instead (though most universities here grade harshly, too!). Thanks.
@ucbalumnus Yep, I definitely wouldn’t do pre med at Harvey Mudd. Out of curiosity, if I was 100% set on medicine, would you suggest just staying in Canada to do the requirements (much cheaper, but I heard most universities here grade harshly, too)? Thanks.
@Much2learn Thanks for the suggestions, though I probably wouldn’t apply to those schools since I’m international and I’d be paying full sticker price for an education I could receive in Canada. And yeah, I’ve considered bio engineering before.
@Corbett I’ve heard job prospects for bioengineering aren’t great-- is that true (this is assuming the med school path doesn’t work out and I just land up with a bioengineering degree)? I probably wouldn’t apply to those schools since I’m international and would be paying full tuition. Thanks again though.
@ThankYouforHelp yeah, that’s the main thing I’m still trying to decide. My parents are sort of pressuring me to do engineering since they don’t think I can last through the next 15 years of becoming a doctor. They think engineering will just be 4 years and then I can start working. Certain aspects of engineering (especially sustainable/env. engineering) have appealed to me, but I have never had shadowing experience / classes for engineering, so I don’t know much about the field.
@SwimDad99 Thanks for your comments, think I’ve seen you post in the Athletic Recruit section on CC before… does your kid go to a NESCAC? I didn’t mention this in my original post, but I applied to Harvey Mudd RD last year, though ended up getting waitlisted. At my interview back in the summer of 16 the Dean of admissions said that if I applied ED with coach’s support & no asking of FA, my chances of admission were “very good”. Didn’t end up doing that in the end, but I think that if I hypothetically apply ED this year I have decent chances. I do agree with you that Amherst is a probably slightly safer bet. Funny you say that, I was in contact with Coach Rueppel until Amherst offered me. I talked to Swarthmore a bit, but I prefer the culture at NESCACs. Was in contact with Coach Kuster, but they’re not looking for breaststrokers this year. Not really interested in Pomona or CMC.
@artloversplus my safety is just going to school in Canada. I think my stats are pretty decent (35 superscored ACT, 2 subejct tests >700), Amherst coach told me that I’m A band academically.
@intparent That’s what I’m wondering, how hard is premed & a sport at Amherst? Is it better to just stay in Canada? But then I feel that the “backup” routes at Amherst (finance, etc.) and connections make the extra costs worth it…
@intparent I won’t be doing pre med at Mudd. Just engineering. And my stats are 35 superscored ACT, 2 subject tests >700.
From your comments above, I feel like a few things should be clarified around financial aid. Unless you are a US citizen, likely Amherst is the only school on your list that will “meet need” for you. There are only 5 schools in the US that are need blind and meet need for internationals, and Amherst is on that list. Mudd (and Swat) are not. I know for a fact that Mudd is very specific in saying this to international students that you very likely will NOT get your full need met. I think Swat will be the same. You mentioned being need blind above – that means a college won’t reject your application because you need FA, but it has nothing to do with whether they will offer enough aid for you to attend.
Also, I get the impression you want to go to med school in the US. There are a small number of med schools in the US that treat Canadians like US citizens in admission, but nearly all consider them international. It is extremely hard for international students to gain admission to US med schools (and to finance that education). I’d suggest you research that further before embarking on that path.
@CCThunderfin – Sounds like you’ve got this all well in hand. Yes, my son is a swimmer at Williams and loves it. Of the NESCAC schools we visited, I liked all of them – Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, and Bowdoin. The coaches were terrific at each school. We really liked Swarthmore, too, and the new coach there, Karin Colby, was terrific. But we shied away from Swarthmore for the same reason you mentioned – the academic environment seemed a bit intense. Of course, Williams and Amherst are pretty intense, too, but Swarthmore does have a special reputation in that regard. My sense is that Harvey Mudd shares that reputation.
It sounds like you’ve gotten the assurances you need at HM – that your odds of admission are very good. But, as for Engineering, my own personal experience is that there is no undergraduate major more intense. Those who choose that major learn a lot, get a strong degree, and find work. But they don’t have much fun in college. If you’re shying away from Swarthmore because of its academic intensity, then I’d suggest you keep in mind that an Engineering major at HM would be VERY intense – probably much more than most students at Swarthmore experience. Pre-med at Amherst would be intense but manageable. Of course, I’m just “some guy” with an opinion, but I’d encourage you to give this Engineering some additional thought. I’ve had a dozen or more friends who attempted Engineering in college quickly move on to something else. Even our valedictorian was pulling very low grades at Notre Dame while attempting Engineering – moved on to something else after the first year and found success. And if you ran into trouble with Engineering at Harvey Mudd, I’m not sure what your other options would be. One last plug – the NESCAC appears to be a terrific place to swim. And Amherst is a great college town, among the best in the US. If you do apply to Amherst, there’s no harm in reaching out to Rueppel and asking if he would support you for EDII.
As for whether to attend a top school for med school, you’ll get lots of opinions here on CC. Some suggest that it doesn’t matter AT ALL where you go – so long as you have the GPA and the MCAT scores. My sense is that these elite LACs are great places to go pre-med. And if you succeed, you’ll have your pick of top medical schools. And if you don’t succeed – or simply change your major as a great many do – you’ll still graduate from one of the top colleges in the country (with a terrific education), and you’ll have wonderful options going forward.
Re: Post 10, although HM is not interested in sports, the teams are a combination of HM, CMC, and Scripps. The CMS teams are very focused on athletics at this time. For the first time ever, I believe they were in the top five of the Director’s Cup, which is the overall athletic ranking for D3.
Amherst doesn’t have EDII. Just ED and RD.
It does have an excellent record with med school placement and very individualized med/health advising. It doesn’t screen applicants for committee letters and supports all of them even if they don’t make what it considers to be “likely admit” MCAT and GPAs.
But the question of Canadian vs US med schools is definitely important to look into. If it will be really hard to get into a US Med school as a Canadian citizen, you may be better off applying to Canadian med schools and that might or might not mean applying from a Canadian undergrad.
Many students who think they want to be pre-med change their minds, and not necessarily because it’s “too hard”, but because they discover related careers that they didn’t know about that require fewer years of education, pay well and are better fits.
I’ll also add that Amherst’s recent study of its athletics program, just completed this year, found that few varsity athletes major in the sciences. As a pre-med you have something like 7 required science courses with labs, so this may be something to look at - can you make time for the work and the required labs and still compete on the team? Some can and do, but fewer than non-athletes.
https://www.amherst.edu/system/files/media/PlaceOfAthleticsAtAmherst_Secure_1.pdf
@OHMomof2 I wonder how those stats at Amherst would look if football players were excluded. Anecdotally, I know that many of the athletes in other sports are science and math majors, but football players all seem to gravitate to econ/wall street type majors.
@OHMomof2 Rueppel is the head coach at Middlebury which does have EDII. 
@swimdad99 my bad on the coach name.
The report actually says that the difference is most stark in “high profile sports such as men’s basketball, baseball, football and lacrosse”.
It also says that “athletic factor” athletes - the ones who need the biggest athletic push because their stats are otherwise too low to be accepted are the ones who don’t pursue the sciences (or math, actually).
The athletes (coded or walk on) who don’t need that much help to get in seem to major in the sciences as much as the non-athlete population…though a TON of all types of athletes are still Econ and Poli Sci majors
It seems it’s not the time needed to do labs and such as much as it is the team culture or the feeling among lower stats athletes that they aren’t prepared well enough to major in STEM, or something.
@SwimDad99, I think he is Canadian. He will not “have his pick” of US medical schools.
CMS was indeed ranked 4th this year, behind Williams, Wash U and Tufts.
Amherst was ranked 8th.
4 of the top 10 schools are from NESCAC: Williams, Tufts, Middlebury and Amherst. This has been the case for the last several years.
CMS has typically ranked outside the top ten.
PP has typically ranked outside the top 50, but has been moving up as well. This year it was ranked 29th.
Bates (NESCAC) had a good year as well. This year it was ranked 20th.
@CCThunderfin I would put Tufts on my list for premed. I think you may be able to go either engineering or non-engineering premed at a university that has a top med school. Check out http://admissions.tufts.edu/academics/after-tufts/pre-health-information/ :bz
Amherst has an excellent track record of getting their students into law school and med school. They have lots of support and high GPAs. Canadian universities have no support and C+ to B- GPAs.