@GetCollege19 Hmmm the more I hear about honors colleges and LLCs, the more appealing they sound. Certainly a working solution to the overwhelming size issue (I know I’m not supposed to be focused on size, but when we’re talking 40,000 it’s kind of an elephant in the room.)
Are these types of living arrangements (ie engineering floors) specific to flagships? Purdue seems to have a nice honors dorm. I think Santa Clara and Rice both have some sort of residential communities.
Is admission to honors colleges pretty competitive?
Your daughter’s social life at UNC sounds dreamy. I hope she’ll be able to jump back in this fall.
No, there are plenty of non flagships that also have honors colleges, including private schools.
Purdue’s honor college is multidisciplinary by design. Each college within Purdue gets a representative portion of honors seats. There were about 180-200 honors engineers in my D’s honors college class out of about 800 seats total. Not sure about the number of seats for the CoS.
And yes, honors college admission is competitive.
For Purdue specifically applicants need to apply in EA and there is an honors specific application process (with more essays).
Purdue also has a number of other Living Learning Communities as well so it’s not like honors college or bust ; )
I will be honest that I was worried about Purdue’s size for my D too. It’s been completely a non issue and IMO, it’s been a positive in terms of opportunities.
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So your description of your son sounds like slow brain processing in your first post. Add in some anxiety to boot. Then the introversion. This is actually very common with high Stat math kids BTW. It’s like their brain maturity lags a bit. But your trying to protect him instead of letting him grow. Let him do that. Let him get a computer matched roommate. A LLC would be great. If he has a learning disability (has nothing to do with his GPA or stats), make sure it’s addressed in college.
As stated many large universities break down to small classes. Most engineering you have to be a team player. Don’t shield him from his potential. @blossom is always correct. Follow her suggestions and stop doing things for him. Let him do them himself whatever that might be. It just takes doing it a few times. I will guarantee you now that every semester you will see some mental maturity growth… These kids also out of the blue become more verbal. He will surprise you.
As stated even at large universities there will be small break out groups. He won’t be the only kid that’s introverted to this degree. There will be lots of them. Put them all in the same room and guess what… They become less introverted.
Rose Hulman will be interesting for him and totally agree with Macalester.
The size of the school’s won’t really matter unless he doesn’t like huge university but they become really small quick also. Once he narrows down his career choices then he can decide which direction to take.
But in Stem being communicative to the team etc is really important. Let him develop and learn these skills. There are learning centers for this on campuses. He will grow and develop if he is allowed to.
I understand how tough it is. Your situation is not unique with these types of kids.
The more he does now the better it will be for him.
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@homerdog Agree completely. Think many view LACs or relatively small schools (say under 10k) as hand holding. In reality, wherever your kid goes, they’ll need to engage to get what they want. They’ll need to ask questions, take action, have a plan, etc. Smaller schools are just easier to navigate with fewer layers of the onion to peel back. Don’t know how something works, just ask and fairly easy to get an answer quickly without the bureaucratic runaround. And because of that, many kids will gain confidence and life skills pretty quickly because it’s a positive process. Had an issue, got it resolved, gained confidence, rinse and repeat.
Like any large organization or gov’t entity, larger state schools tend to have way more moving parts and fewer resources per student. Although I know it’s changed, I look back to my college days in the 80s at a state flagship. I don’t recall ever meeting with an academic advisor, counselor, etc. I don’t recall ever being made aware of activities or opportunities. It was all whatever I stumbled across (which was plenty). I compare that to my kids’ experience and it’s a different animal. Not that they don’t have to engage, but they’re informed about a whole range of things (activities, workshops, meetings) and are required to meet with advisors. Still, no one is going to ensure they they get involved in X or Y. It’s still on them, just easier to navigate.
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@momofboiler1 Thanks for this info! So at Purdue, are most of the 800 in the honors dorm? Are the mixed up or is there an engineering floor? Have the engineering kids found each other and is this helpful in studying together?
Not thrilled about the prospect of more essays! Unless he can really boil his list down, we’re looking at 20 colleges with multiple supplements. It is going to be pulling teeth for a kid who would rather calculate than self-reflect.
Several posters have recommended Harvey Mudd. It’s academically more challenging than others that are mentioned by a significant margin. OP, do you mind sharing the classes that your son have taken, or are taking? Which classes, if any, has he felt challenged? How did he feel about and deal with those challenges?
@Knowsstuff Thanks for your thoughtful observations. Yes, his processing speed does seem to lag his other skills. He’s had 2 full neuropsychs, one indicated slow processing speed, the other did not. Very high IQ, so he compensates in other areas. To add to the fun, he has ADHD and will qualify for accommodations in college. He does not need a school with an executive functioning program like SALT. Historically, his intelligence has been disproportionate to his maturity. As you said, working on life skills over the next 18 months (gasp) is going to be a priority for sure.
Rose Hulman seems to cater to kids like my son. They tout engaged, helpful professors and access to academic support. This could good, but what are the downsides? I don’t love what a niche environment it seems to be… strikes me as an engineering bubble. Maybe he will like this? I would prefer that he’s in an environment where he has to interact with many types of people who are studying different things. Maybe this isn’t important.
Our school district has emphasized group work from kindergarten and he seems to do ok in small groups. I mean, his leadership skills are underdeveloped, but he does collaborate and… speak. I don’t think he needs (or wants) to do pure math for four years. He likes other people. It’s more that the combo of lagging skills, environmental stimuli, and some social anxiety make him tense until he builds relationships and becomes secure in situations.
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@rickle1 An easier process, yes! Being thrown into a complex system with limited self-advocacy skills is not going to help matters. A clearly defined path to navigate the system, possibly with happy helpers (advisors) in place, would help him scaffold skills.
Completely understand that this is HIS ballgame and I don’t expect all hands on deck. That said, I’m hoping to find an environment where he can succeed and grow. I’m sure some colleges will be easier to navigate than others.
When I’ve said handholding or even nurturing, these words are coming through my mom-filter, where I approach matters with love and concern. In reality, looking at “ease of process” coupled with “life skills” is a more rational (less emotional) approach.
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@1NJParent Harvey Mudd is out of his league. As a junior he’s taking high honors Pre-Calc, high honors CompSci, and AP Bio (having previously taken high honors PCB sequence). Heavy hitter math & Sci APs next year.
Yes, there are two honors dorms adjacent to each other - north and south, and most, if not all of the 1st year honors students live there. They are all mixed up by major, even within the same room.
That said, during orientation, honors engineering sponsors their own events so the engineering students can get to know each other. Honors also has their own sections of FYE design. Those were the kids my D ended up spending a huge amount of time with (class meets three x/week and project teams another 20 hours/week outside class). Honestly it was a great bonding experience. Purdue is all about collaboration so study groups are the norm.
I’m not sure if CoS does anything similar for their honors students during orientation. Would be a good question to ask if your son ends up applying to CS through CoS.
I will also add that once within your major (which for engineers is after freshman year but would be right away for CS majors in CoS), you start seeing the same students and the school feels once again much, much smaller.
I will put in a plug for for narrowing down your list in advance of applications. My D applied to 8 schools and wrote 19 unique essays. We were totally naive about that. I thought it would be the common app essay and maybe the “why us” essays. Wow was I wrong! And when D thought she was done, there would be a scholarship essay, or at some schools, more honors essays. It was a lot! I’ve read here on CC that some students purposefully seek out schools with fewer or no essays to round out their lists. In retrospect, we should have considered that strategy.
One last comment (for now ; )) - We have been blown away by the advising at Purdue. My D had an honors FYE advisor who was AMAZING. Made some fabulous suggestions and got her on a pathway to get a certification in collaborative leadership as part of her oral communication and upper level gen ed requirement. That end up being the pathway for her first internship and co-op. One she transitioned to her major she was assigned another advisor specific to her major and for co-op students. Her experience has been that they are knowledgeable and invested. She meets with them regularly.
PS. I lied…two more “last” comments. Check out the website for the Academic Success Center: Home - Academic Success Center - Academic Success Center - Purdue University. It’s more than just about tutoring.
And Purdue’s Career Center which can help with some of the soft skills through mock interviews, helping with elevator spiels, tips for how to practice for career fairs, etc…Purdue CCO.
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And how did I know…? Lol… 
… Pm me if you choose to. The delay reaction to answer a question is mostly the key sign. They know the answer also just need time to format it. The other stuff you mentioned is pretty typical. These kids are super intelligent. So I have one of those… I am telling you semester by semester you can see the development. He might of not been at your son’s level but I understand everything you are saying. BTW - mine just signed a job offer and graduating engineering in the spring.
You got time to help him develop skills now. If he’s home stop making all his lunches and have him do his own laundry. He’ll have to do this for himself. Show him how.
Order out food and have him go in to pay for it and get the food. This might all sound silly to some reading this but it’s the small stuff once they get over that hurdle…
My son went to a known top school in our state. We talked about him being called on etc . This was a school you had to test into and get a 99.6% to be considered (selective public school)… The principal just laughed and told us most of the kids are like that and the teacher’s are instructed to frame the question then give them a bit longer to think about the question etc. He never had a problem since they did practice this. In college at a Big Ten school he thrived. Not the first 3 weeks… Lol… But something kicked in and again we saw big jumps every semester. He also became very verbal. Like a different kid actually.
So… Just an example of one… But I have seen lots of this type.
Make sure the school you go to has a good support systems of he needs /wants it. He will find his peeps if he chooses to. That’s the biggest factor. These kids could just stay in their room during non pandemic times and be just fine.
As far as Rose Hulman. You would get at least a half scholarship. It’s engineering all the time with a 75 /25 ratio of boys /girls. The city is blah and have to drive to it. It’s not walking distance. Kids that go there love this school. It’s like just the department of engineering. They have other things to study but not much else. It’s very academic and very hard (all engineering is hard) but they do study together. Their football team has done pretty good… Also… They do get jobs.
To me it looked like a big high school. But that’s OK. It’s the environment. I would go to check it out. His experience might be great. What we did and we live in Chicago was to take our kids to small medium and large campuses even just to walk around (we are fortunate this way), to kinda get a feel. For my son bigger was better since he is a sports fan. For my daughter smaller was better.
The other thing to do now is get him out of his comfort zone. It’s part of building his confidence. Has he ever made dinner for you? Well, show him what to do and let him do it. Give me more and more responsibilities now. Not all on one day but a bit at a time.
Once these kids get comfortable and their confidence rises they flourish.
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The gpa requirements at Wisconsin for specific engineering majors are quite high and a serious stress on students. Students need to meet, and maintain, the gpa threshold, and that puts continuing pressure on students. For the OP’s son, I would not recommend Wisconsin if he decides that he is engineering rather than science and math. My broader advice is, don’t shy away from large public universities just because of the size, as honors, learning communities, and other structures exist to “shrink” the academic and living experience. Public flagships with stat-based admission, with less emphasis on holistic admissions, could provide some good early acceptances. Those schools also tend to give merit. For instance – I had mentioned Univ of Iowa – it uses a stat-based formula for admission, merit, and honors programs. A student can enter their data, see whether they will be admitted and get merit and honors. IU for science and math but not engineering (that’s Purdue) – is heavily stat-based for admissions, merit and honors and uses weighted gpa in those decisions. It does rolling admissions, so an OOS student can have a decision by October or so of senior year. I’m in the midwest, so the schools I know better are here. I’m not suggesting these are the only, or best, schools to consider – rather that the process can be pretty transparent for direct admits to colleges and departments, merit and honors at the public flagships. A family could narrow that list of possible public schools to a handful, based on additional criteria such as honors, merit, learning communities and other structures to “shrink” the experience.
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Another thing I did when taking him to colleges is that he /we met informally with a professor. He had 3 set up questions to ask. As an example we went to Indiana University the day before going to Rose Hulman. Indiana just started a school of Information. He would be in the first class but really to check out the campus. It’s great. So we both went in and it was more or less then pushing the school on him once they knew his stats… Lol… But he got to ask a stranger questions.
The next day was Rose Hulman and we were the only ones on the tour (famous question to him from the very pretty girl taking us around that happened to be the head of the school’s daughter… Lol) was “What do you like to do” no matter what my son said she said “You can do that here”.
But at the end of the tour we met with the head of the department. Again, just trying to sell the school to him since they want /like high Stat kids… He asked and answered his questions…
These were precursors to other universities. By the time he got to Michigan for the tour and he met with 2 professors it was second nature.
Start small and grow
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Competitive honors admission and effort - in D21s experience, it varies. Some schools’ programs are more limited in size than other universities of similar size, so more competitive for entry than others. Some required a supplemental application, but some were check a box on general application. Some the supplemental was one or two short answers and some expected long essays.
Responding to what someone mentioned about larger universities not being easy to navigate. That hasn’t been my UNC student’s experience. She has two advisors and two career centers (one general university and one for her specific college within the university).
Yes, if needed she has to seek them out beyond the required periodic ‘check to make sure you’re on track’ sessions, but she’s never had issues with accessing any of them, but I will say they don’t always give the same guidance. For example her college career center beat up her resume that general university said was good (because college is more in tune with exact expectations of employers in her particular field). Her resume response rate increased tenfold after that.
If students are in honors they may have 3 advisors- general, department/specific college (like engineering) and honors advisor. Especially her college within the university, sends out a lot of information about activities and opportunities.
I think it may be more a reflection of changing times. I went to a small LAC for undergrad (then state flagship for grad). I don’t remember anyone at the LAC reaching out to me as far as advising or providing information. That was on students to seek out. I will say even back then there was a lot of support provided in my grad program.
I think it may make sense for your son to look into a couple flagships and a couple LACs and see if one route speaks to him more than the other or he’s neutral between that aspect. Then build a list from there. I think he can likely find suitable fits in either category.
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@momofboiler1 Ooooh what a treasure trove of info 
Great to hear about how the honors college functions, plus it sounds like advising and support are solid resources.
Regarding the long list, I would love nothing more than to boil it down to under 10. This is why I’m working hard to nail fit. Did your daughter write different common app essays for different schools or are you talking about the supplemental essays? I’m keeping track of the number of supplements.
@Midwestmomofboys We’re midwest too, so good to know about Iowa. I will look into their honors college, advising, supports, etc. A big merit scholarship would be hard to pass up unless there’s some other amazing opportunity elsewhere.
@Knowsstuff Structured for success- love it! Perfect example of scaffolding skills. Maybe I can get him on some virtual tours where he can ask questions- verbally. We just need colleges to open for tours! C’mon vaccine roll out!
@GetCollege19 Not to generalize, but it would make sense for large universities to have well developed paths to access advising, support, career service, etc., just to manage the volume of students. I need to do more legwork in researching these systems. Hearing parents like you, @Midwestmomofboys, and @momofboiler1 describe firsthand experiences is incredibly useful. I could pick up the phone myself and call admissions. Otherwise, the glossy information online doesn’t always tell the whole story.
Do not call admissions now and expect a quality answer. And your son can practice his communication skills by making a list of questions, then making the calls himself. This is a great example of something you do not need to do for him- if the conversation does not go well, you guys can brainstorm about how to improve the next time. Having notes helps.
By June things have quieted down in Career Services, for example. After graduation, the staff is busy compiling stats, setting up logistics for Fall recruiting, etc. but the level of questions or needs from graduating seniors has tapered off. Good time to engage them in a conversation!
Key questions- who handles professional school transitions (law, medicine, business) and is there a different staff for academic grad school and fellowships? Who handles industry (i.e. that first job) and are there different specialists for different sectors- someone who knows banking, someone who knows consulting, someone who knows tech? How do you make an appointment for a resume review, interview coaching, mock interviews, etc and is that reserved for juniors and seniors or can any student get help?
Some small schools have fantastic and sophisticated operations- some big schools are definitely of the “sink or swim” mentality. But I am not aware of any college which sends someone to your kid’s dorm room and insists they show up for mock interviews or insists they come to a “dog and pony” show put on by different companies. That’s on your kid!
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Check out Iowa State. Automatic merit (actually at all Iowa schools) and could be a better fit if engineering. They have engineering at both so check it out
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