<p>O.K....I can go back to loving you as I have before :)</p>
<p>BTW...I was much too quick to say my D will be a quad bunny. I should have written she hopes to become a quad bunny! ;)</p>
<p>OK, so now to the really important stuff. Did your daughter already recieve notification on her housing assignment??</p>
<p>See the post above yours. Sorry, I reposted about the housing assignments.</p>
<p>Didn't you say you lived in center campus? Are you looking to change?</p>
<p>Oh whew...... thought I'd lost out once again. For reasons too dumb to explain, I missed out on the regular housing lottery and had to enter the summer lottery. I don't think it will be a problem to get a room in my old house (Cutter), but you never know. I was pretty sure that they assign the summer lottery spots before first year spots, so if she had already heard, it would mean either that wasn't true or I'd somehow screwed up on entering the summer lottery.</p>
<p>I hope your daughter gets into the house she chose! But for sure, whether she does or not, she'll likely end up happy because the people are the best part of any of the houses. I live in the ugliest house on campus but I wouldn't move unless all of my friends could move with me, and they feel the same.</p>
<p>Embrace the Cube!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hope your daughter gets into the house she chose! But for sure, whether she does or not, she'll likely end up happy because the people are the best part of any of the houses.
[/quote]
AWWWWW......that's what I love about Smithies! I hope my D has the same experiences as you just described about her housemates.</p>
<p>Now tell me about convocation? Saw some interesting pictures on the Jolt! :eek:</p>
<p>Convocation, soooo much fun -- never experienced anything even remotely like it before and it really cements house spirit.</p>
<p>But if you're worried about scaring parents of prospies away, you'd better confine disucussions about convocation to The Jolt. ;-)</p>
<p>Suffice to say, your kids are gonna love it!</p>
<p>Oops, I broke my own rule :) C'mon, indulge an old man with a little dirt about convocation for all to read. ;)</p>
<p>{{ You clearly were not the person who posted the negative reaction to TD's orignal post}}</p>
<p>And I was? Give me a break. I said nothing-- read absolutely nothing-- about TDs reference to Smith having an active gay community, except for a joke about how big a shadow the gay community casts. Comon, get a sense of humor.;) And BJM8s comment about wanting to get away from the gay discussions was innocuous </p>
<p>I was upset about references to unwanted sexual advances, and for very good reason. If a woman or parent (youll understand someday when you have kids) thought unwanted sexual advances (people will automatically think the worse) transpired at Smith--no matter how fewer than at a co-ed, it could have a very detrimental effect on recruitment.</p>
<p>Btw- There isn't a single sentence about unwanted advances on another college thread that I know of.
Theres a good reason for that.</p>
<p>I can assure you, if that comment was made on a message board read around the world regarding a business/company, and Smith is a business, every corporate attorney, Board member, HR executive, and the CEO would have had their cell phones smoking. </p>
<p>TD meant absolutely no harm and I didnt accuse him of such. Please dont jump down my throat for pointing out a sentence imo, albiet with no harm intended, that shouldn't have been posted.</p>
<p>[[am straight, but was on the recieving end of a few advances from gay women this year, especially at the beginning of the year when my sexual orientation was probably unknown]] I found it somewhat flattering]]</p>
<p>Im glad you were flattered. Not all Smithies are like you. If it was the workplace,-- and as I said, Smith is a business-- there could be serious repercussions if the advances were done in an obscene manner or repeated. There is an entire industry of consultants who do nothing but give lectures and classes to companies, college administrators, college students, et al on how to avoid any <em>hint</em> of inappropriate sexual behavior. On some campuses students are required to take a short course on what constitutes inappropriate behavior. Laurel, students have been brought up for discipline at /numerous colleges/ for said behavior. Thats the point I was attempting to make. Seriously, not everyone is flattered or as understanding as you. What can I say, youre more understanding and decent than many others. </p>
<p>Fwiw- I dont know a straight woman except you who was propositioned. In all fairness, I dont know the entire student body, or even close :)</p>
<p>Laurel, I said Gay women "always act respectably and courteously toward their straight peers" --as, case in point, one did to you, even though she didn't yet know you were straight but may have assumed you were. You made my point. What was argumentative about my statement?</p>
<p>Maybe I should have said Gay women dont make unwanted advances toward straight women they <em>know</em> are straight ---but the meaning should have been clear. The comment was for prospective students and their parents to put their mind at ease. It had /nothing/ to do with arguing with TD, as you seem to want to believe.</p>
<p>You acknowledged your orientation was unknown when advances were made. Now that the gay community knows you are /straight/, are you still receiving unwanted advances? Im assuming you arent. That was my point.</p>
<p>Youre not going to get your ignore feature, and you obviously seem to want to argue with me, If you think about it, youre doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. Lets let this go. We got off on the wrong foot when you misunderstood my comment about wasting <em>my</em> time (not others wasting theirs) reading HP and my being totally clueless as to what was being discussed or TD's HP reference. OK, I'm guilty of HP ignorance, but is that such a crime ?
It was downhill from there, but theres no reason for this animosity. Truce? :)</p>
<p>So much to catch up on:</p>
<p>
[quote]
...the issue of lesbianism at Smith is among the "bullet points" to discuss when suggesting the school -- and I don't hesitate to bring this issue up with any locals who are referred to me for feedback.
[/quote]
Bingo.
[quote]
To me, it is simply part of an overall review of the "culture" of the school, just as if I were giving feedback on a Southern school I might address whether the campus is conservative, or on a school with an active fraternity/sorority scene, how that affects campus life.
[/quote]
Bingo.
[quote]
To do otherwise is, to me, either avoidant or a "sin of omission."
[/quote]
Mega-Bingo.
[quote]
We do Smith no favors, IMO, "denying" a significant aspect of the campus culture.
[/quote]
Mega-Bingo.
[quote]
I don't understand with all the descriptive parts to the post, to then react to the one small part about the proportion of the gay population in the student body.
[/quote]
Right. It's not exactly "headlined" when it's discussed in paragraph 24 of a 27-paragraph post.
[quote]
I know that the year my D was accepted, there was a parent on here whom we met at the open house for accepted Stride Scholars whose D had some uncomfortable (for her) experiences.
[/quote]
I had been hesitant to mention this lest I be accused of being needlessly provocative but I am more familiar than this incident than I want to be, in graphic detail. I think the prospect, who now attends Wellesley, overreacted. Her father afterwards was kind enough to send my D the Smith sweatshirt and other items his D had purchased with an intent to attend Smith. The student who "crossed the line", egregiously and obnoxiously, was seriously disciplined; due to privacy concerns, I can not be certain but I believe the student was expelled. As the cards fell, this came up in a discussion I had with an admissions officer, which then expanded to include the issue of "comfort zones" and such--so cavalierly dismissed by some as being a non-existent issue--and how prospects and student vary in their responses. As I said, personally I think the offended person--who had just cause to be offended for sure--overreacted...a similar experience could have happened at a co-ed school and nobody would write the school off...and that was what was behind my comment in the OP about Smith, unwanted advances, and implicit comparison to a co-ed school.
[quote]
I also think some shared things are factual. Some are opinions. It is a fact that there is a signficant percentage of gay students on campus at Smith. Whether that matters at all to you, is a personal choice.
[/quote]
Abso-effing-lutely.
[quote]
My only point, is that WE (all of us at times) put way too much emphasis on the gay issues than we do about the school.
[/quote]
By contesting reality, some people wind up putting a far greater emphasis, via weight of posts, than is otherwise warranted. Shutting one's eyes and insisting "but it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist" is not helpful and is not only a deceitful act of omission, as others have noted, but makes it seem that the "large shadow" cast by the community would be a problem.
[quote]
I go to the Wellesley thread and read about their great profs and courses, their beautiful campus, how close their student body is, their advising system, the opportunities that their students receive. Come to the Smith threads, and read about the lesbians, transgendered, bi students who, according to some, are running amok and making everyone who enters those hallowed gates just like them. It just isn't true! There are gay/lesbian issues at every college, even YALE!
[/quote]
Two things, BJM. First, Smith is a lot more "out there" in terms of LBGT presence, Wellesely is more buttoned down, more, urr, undercover. This is fact. Everyone needs to deal. It is <em>not</em> a "problem," as anyone who has read my posts over the years would indicate. Second, the Wellesley board doesn't have anyone running around like Butterfly McQueen in "Gone With The Wind" every time Yankees, I mean gays, make an appearance. Smith has a large gay community, probably the largest of any college: FACT. This community casts a large shadow in many dimensions: FACT. It's not a problem: my OPINION.
[quote]
I wonder how many new students we have scared off by these comments? I wonder how many parents who read these threads refuse to have their daughters attend such a place? You can write whatever good things you want in a thread, but as soon as the reader reads the words "gay/lesbian" in a sentence, it catches the eye and the inagination.
[/quote]
It is laughable to think that there isn't whispering rumor out there in the universe already. Personally, I find it deplorable that as soon as a reader reads--or a listener hears--the words "gay/lesbian" that it catches the imagination. But the best way to deal with those imagination is with matter-of-fact reality-based information and accounts of experience. My rule of thumb has been that 1/3 of Smith is gay...given that the recent survey of 1,500 students showed that identifying as "straight" varied by class from 55 to 70 percent, I'll stick by my rule of thumb as being reasonably accurate as to what a perception of someone living in that community is going to have. There are parents--or students--who, if they see or hear that stat, are never going to set foot on the campus. Those aren't "lost" students, those are students who were never Smith's to begin with. But there are students and parents in the middle of the continuum for whom a "yes, here are the demographics, yes, the gay/bi culture is a major fact of life on campus, and no, in our experience from the straight side of things, it's not a problem" conversation is extremely useful, as Jyber's experience in talking to prospect families indicates as well as my own.
[quote]
As a current student, I would say that TD's post gives a very accurate picture of "Smith at a Glance," including the issue of sexual orientation (which he did not highlight or underscore in any way).
[/quote]
Thanks, Laurel. It's nice to get some collaboration from another current student, other than from my own D, that as "only a parent," I've got a pretty good handle on Smith. Lord knows, I try.
[quote]
I am straight, but was on the recieving end of a few advances from gay women this year, especially at the beginning of the year when my sexual orientation was probably unknown. I did not find it disrespectful or discourteous and while the advances were "unwanted" I didn't expect the other person to automatically know that. In fact, because it was never discourteous or the least bit threatening, I found it somewhat flattering. One unwanted advance certainly does not rise to the level of "sexual harrasment", particularly if the person makes no further advances after being told that the attention is not welcome.
[quote]
What I've heard is that it takes a while for people to figure out which side of the plate [my idiom] other people hit from and that there's sometimes some awkwardness and confusion until things sort out. Which can be momentarily "uncomfortable" for some, which is, as you indicate, a far cry from "harrassment"--a word I never used...I don't appreciate my words being twisted to frame a strawman argument.
[quote]
but there IS a very open and fairly numerous population of gay and bi-sexual women at Smith. If stating that drives prospies or their parents elsewhere, then they probably are making the best decision to attend a different school.
[/quote]
Mega-Bingo.
[quote]
</p>
<p>BTW TD, I think you should start including Jazz Band in your section on musical groups. :-)
[/quote]
LOL. Done!!! Contrary to what some might think, I only cite what I have fairly closehand accounts of. I hadn't been aware of the jazz band.
[quote]
Convocation, soooo much fun -- never experienced anything even remotely like it before and it really cements house spirit. But if you're worried about scaring parents of prospies away, you'd better confine disucussions about convocation to The Jolt. ;-)
[/quote]
Ain't that the truth. What my D doesn't tell me won't hurt me, or something like that. Fortunately, I've cultivated multiple sources over the years...so, like, I can maybe paint 10 percent of certain pictures of things Parents Aren't Supposed to Know. D has been surprised at how much knowledge I'd accumulated about traditions at various Houses.</p>
<p>I would have thought the survey would have put the gay thing to rest. Slightly under 11% of the Smith population is lesbian, roughly 5X that of the general population, but well less than the gay male population at Yale and a host of other fine institutions. 23% claim to be bisexual, slightly under the 24.6% reporting such tendencies among women in the general population in a study comissioned by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.</p>
<p>The big difference is Smith women tend to be open, honest, and outfront about it (unlike the gay male friends I had in college, all of whom except one was in the closet, and who committed suicide at the rate of one or two a year.) Oh, and teenagers/post-teenagers have more sex, generally speaking. (But there may be fewer heterosexual acts at Smith - opportunity counts for somethun.)</p>
<p>I would think that having strong women of all stripes is a plus, not a minus.</p>
<p>By the way, did anyone see this, on self-abuse?</p>
<p>This I found disturbing! I had no idea it is that common. Did anyone come upon it much in high school?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Slightly under 11% of the Smith population is lesbian, roughly 5X that of the general population, but well less than the gay male population at Yale and a host of other fine institutions.
[/quote]
Wow...no kidding! less than the gay male population at Yale? How come we never read about them?
[quote]
I would think that having strong women of all stripes is a plus, not a minus.
[/quote]
Agreed 100% Mini!</p>
<p>
[quote]
This I found disturbing! I had no idea it is that common. Did anyone come upon it much in high school?
[/quote]
Mini, I see this everyday in my school, and I am in a very suburban, pretty affluent community. Teens cutting themselves is becoming commonplace, unfortunately. Many of these students have been abused (physically, mentally, emotionally) at a younger age.</p>
<p>Pretty messed up to physically, mentally, emotionally abused and be cutting oneself at Princeton and Cornell. Sure it isn't school pressures? Is it all students or just academically talented ones?</p>
<p>"Wow...no kidding! less than the gay male population at Yale? How come we never read about them?"</p>
<p>Actually, you can. They have the best lesbian/gay studies program in the country at Yale, and have produced some superb scholars, beginning with the late John Boswell. They even have scholarships set aside for lesbian/gay students. <a href="http://www.yale.edu/lesbiangay/homepage.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.yale.edu/lesbiangay/homepage.html</a> But you should know that, according to CDC, many fewer men admit to bisexual tendencies than females in the population, even while there are somewhere between 3-5 times as many gay men as lesbians. The main difference at Smith (and all women's colleges generally speaking), besides the general openness, is that there is significantly less heterosexual ACTIVITY, for obvious reasons, which magnifies what sex there is.</p>
<p>AHHHH...now you're putting it in perspective for me, thanks!</p>
<p>Sorry Mini, I don't know about cutting oneself at Colleges, just middle and high schools in the country. I'm sure though, that if therapy was not sought after, that it would continue at the college level as pressures build.</p>
<p>Iow, context is everything.</p>
<p>Btw, BJM, I have now seen some photos from Convocation. Fairly tame but YMMV, not more provocative than a Victoria Secret catalog, though interesting from various other aspects. Of course, this opinion is based on the photos shown me.</p>
<p>Thanks TD. I saw some photos of convocation on the Jolt, and all I could think was... :eek:</p>
<p>all I could think was...]]</p>
<p>Don't think; it does more harm than good. :)</p>