An Interesting Dilemma (Prestige vs. Fit)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Santa Clara University
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<p>I was accepted into the Leavy Business School with almost a full-tuition scholarship. I love Santa Clara, but I'm torn between the California life and east coast prestige. I was deferred at Brown, and accepted at Michigan (In-State), Tulane (17K/yr), Cincinnati (DAAP), Miami (Ohio, 10K/yr), Miami (FL), and SCU (Close to full tuition). I am still waiting on final decisions from Brown, Southern Cal (double-legacy), Notre Dame, Duke, and Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>I could go to Michigan in-state and pay about 25K/year. (Parents would cover that) I want to get away to Cali where both of my brothers live, but I'm afraid I'm sacrificing reputation if I pass up on some of the schools I listed. </p>

<p>I applied to a lot of schools and I'm surprised I have yet to be rejected. Which of the above schools is good enough to make me pass up my offer at SCU?</p>

<p>Thank you for any responses. Really struggling here.</p>

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<p>You’re on the Santa Clara thread, so obviously, you will be getting pro-Santa Clara answers. As someone who was torn between paying full tuition at Boston College last year or go to Santa Clara on scholarship, I understand your situation. Here’s what I have learned about choosing colleges: We have gotten so overconcerned with rankings and prestige that many students don’t pick places that are good fits for them. In retrospect, though I was so attracted to the prestige of BC, Santa Clara was a much better fit, and I am glad that I am here.<br>
The best I can do is tell you what my thoughts would be, if I was in your position and give a Santa Clara plug. What you know of prestige has to do with Grad schools. All the “prestigious” schools are that because of their graduate programs, which has little bearing for undergrad. For instance, Berkeley is one of the best places to go to Grad school and a pretty mediocre place for undergrad. So throw prestige out the door and consider more of opportunity and experience. Notre Dame, USC, and Duke are schools on that list that I know have good undergrad experiences. However, you won’t get scholarships from Notre Dame (they don’t give them, though they have good financial aid). I can’t speak for the other two. All three have good alumni networks, though it would be hard at Notre Dame or Duke to get internships while you are at school due to location. Anyways, those would top my personal list of alternatives.
Now for Santa Clara. We have limited Grad school programs (though we have a great law school and school of theology; the president of Notre Dame went to our theology school) so you won’t hear about us curing cancer or financing research trips to the moon. It’s not a research institution, but rather, a master’s level university. What this means is that the entire focus is on you, as an undergrad. You will graduate in four years if you choose to, guaranteed because the school makes every tool at its disposable available to you as an undergrad. You can easily get internships in any field in the Silicon Valley (LucasFilm, Pixar, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, the San Francisco 49ers all have internship positions that are currently being filled through our Career Center). The business school is quite good. In particular, we get a lot of credit for creating a business curriculum that includes ethics, something often far removed from business practices today. The people here are great. There is a laid-back California feel to the personalities you meet. Faith and the Jesuit tradition also enriches the campus by giving the university purpose. The Jesuits desire to educate “men and women for others”. You really feel that here. Furthermore, it is cool to be a school on the rise. Santa Clara is the second ranked (again, be wary of rankings; they are ultimately meaningless) school in the Bay Area after Stanford (this is according to Forbes Magazine). Graduates get paid over $100,000 a year on average during the peak of their careers (again, second only to Stanford and not by much). We are churning out high powered alumni that include two current Cabinet members, the Governor (sort of) and the Lieutenant Governor of California, Steve Nash, Brandi Chastain, etc. It’s even rumored that we might get a football team back in the near future. And you would get all of this for free. I think that is probably too good an opportunity to pass up, but the choice is yours. You have time yet to think.</p>

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<p>Just a question. How could you be accepted at Miami (fl)? Only ED decisions have gone out?</p>

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<p>Toast - I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your response. I’ve been thinking many similar things but honestly I just needed someone to validate them. So you honestly don’t think Santa Clara’s reputation in business is lacking? Not to sound conceited, I just don’t want to “limit” my earning potential by going to a regional university over a nationally recognized school like UMich. I love California, I want to work in the Silicon Valley, and I do not want to go into debt for undergrad so I can save my cash for grad school. I love the environment at Santa Clara and everything about it, but I just cannot help having reservations about national recognition, but if everyone there is as insightful as you then I’m sure I will love it there. </p>

<p>What is your major? Could you shed some light on your internship experiences in your SCU career thus far? I’ll be visiting through the ShadowSCU program hopefully next month. I can’t wait to see the campus for myself.</p>

<p>Also - do many SCU grads end up at big name graduate schools (Stanford, UChicago, Berkeley, etc.?)</p>

<p>Thanks again for your time, I’ve been wanting to post about this for awhile but I couldn’t seem to find the time.</p>

<p>Dumbo - Stupid mistake. My fault! I had been browsing the UMiami thread right before I posted so I guess it was on my mind. I have not been accepted! I read somewhere we should find out sometime between February 1-3. Sorry for the confusion.</p>

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<p>Interesting topic. my daughter was accepted to many good schools and narrowed her choice to SCU and Boston College. She visited SCU and fell in love with the school, campus and location. We visited BC and we were wowed by the campus and city of Boston. on the very long flight home to LA daughter said she was impressed but still wanted to enroll at SCU. The night before deposit was to be made, she changed her mind and told me she wanted to go to BC because it was higher national profile and more prestigious. We turned down $ of over 1/2 tuition at SCU to pay full tuition at BC. She came home for Christmas and announced she wasn’t going to return for her 2d semester. The grades were very good and the academics were terrific. The problem was the social aspects of the school and some homesickness. She transferred to SCU and couldn’t be happier. (although i could be if they offered the money again) She says that she always knew SCU would be a better fit for her but she chased the prestige. I am a Cal State Grad and atttended a 2d tier law school. I do very well financially even with a lesser pedigree than most of my competitors. Our son, high school senior is wrestling with many of the same issues. He has been recruited athletically by schools but they dont seem to interest him. We hold up the example of D and point out that these are supposed to be the best years of your life and that you will thrive at the right school. i dont discount the importance of good schools and things are certianly different than when i went to school, commuted and worked. My advice is go where you fit best, study hard and enjoy your youth. let others worry about the labels</p>

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<p>East Coast prestige? I’m not sure what you mean. More prestigious schools are on the East Coast, but there are also prestigious West Coast schools.</p>

<p>If you’re looking to go to a school that makes people’s jaw drop a little when you say you’re an alumnus, SCU is not the place for you. We aren’t Harvard, Yale or Chicago. But if you want to go to a very well respected school, SCU will fit the bill. </p>

<p>Some of this tends to be where you are in the country. I’ve noticed Californians tend to be aware of East Coast schools, but the opposite does not hold true. If you decide to live in California (very common among out-of-state students) after graduation, the SCU name would be more valuable than that of U Miami, Cincinnati, etc. Back East, different story. (Although SCU’s name recognition is growing at a pretty nice clip.)</p>

<p>As for grad schools, yes. You can get into Stanford, Berkeley, USC no problem as an alumnus, so long as you have a nice resume.</p>

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<p>There’s a much higher ratio of greater known schools on the E coast as opposed to the W coast. This may be contributable to the fact that higher population densities are more common in the eastern regions and the fact that many eastern locals have been around longer and have a more illustrious history compared to western settlements.</p>

<p>Anyhoo, painca is absolutely right. If you plan on living outside of CA, or even the Bay Area for that matter, you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who will recognize SCU. One typical way of combating this is trying to network with other state’s chapter alumni, but I don’t think SCU has that big a network. . .</p>

<p>cougar, the schools you named would carry more weight in their name than SCU for sure. True fact: I wouldn’t have known about SCU if I didn’t meet my wife who is an alum. And I’ve lived in the city next door to them for like 20 years.</p>

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<p>“I love California, I want to work in the Silicon Valley, and I do not want to go into debt for undergrad so I can save my cash for grad school. I love the environment at Santa Clara and everything about it’”.
those are 4 very good reasons to go to SCU.
Now, realistically, no UG business school is really well thought of, in comparison to GBS’s. You dont have to have an UG degree in Business to be accepted at a graduate school of business, if that is your plan. You might be better off majoring in economics/ math and take lots of CS classes than getting a UG Business school degree and look for Summer Internship opportunities[in the Bay Area or elsewhere] that will give you real business experiences. I recommend asking about SCU’s job placement services, to see what opportunities UG’s are usually offered in the summer, as well as inquiring about the % of BS graduates who have jobs right after graduation.</p>

<p>If you end up being accepted at USC you should seriously consider going there instead, given the strength of the Trojan network in Calif and inn the world, the fantastic opportunities available there for all UG students and the fact that it is ranked far higher than SCU and is rising very fast.
Or stay in Michigan for a lot less $$.</p>

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<p>To OP, congratulations on your SCU scholarship! I’m sure you’ll do just fine no matter where you go. Do keep in mind cost issues however. Best of luck to you!</p>

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<p>Wait until you have all your acceptances and FA packages. I highly advise you against going to a more “prestigious” school and ending up in debt. If you can afford it awesome, but if not you don’t want to graduate owing a ton of money. SCU is a good school and a great option if you only have to pay a fraction of the sticker price.</p>

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<p>^I second that. For any situation and for any college it’s best to wait to view the FA. Best yet it can then be used as a bartering chip with the leading schools on your list.</p>

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<p>Waytooinvolved - What an interesting story! That is such wonderful news that your D is succeeding at Santa Clara. It gives me hope that I’m not limiting myself by attending a regional university over a more nationally recognized one.</p>

<p>Turtlerock - I was surprised to hear that SCU doesn’t even have name recognition outside the Bay Area. To me that seems like I’m limiting myself to one area - I hope that isn’t the case. The undergraduate B-School is ranked in the top 30 nationally by Business Week. Does that mean anything?</p>

<p>Menloparkmom - Thanks for your response. I totally understand USC’s reputation because I have a brother there who is a junior and my father is an alumnus. It is a beautiful school with a world-wide reputation, but it does not offer the same type of education that Santa Clara does. SCU places an emphasis on faith and ethics; something I have yet to see either of from my current Trojan family member. Would it be stupid to pass up reputation for a more tailored education? </p>

<p>2gurlzmum - Thanks you for your words of encouragement. We’ll see where I end up!</p>

<p>FINAL QUESTION - I know rankings don’t matter but it is tough not to get caught up in them from time-to-time. SCU is the #2 Regional University in the West. Would it be a mistake to pass up my offers from highly ranked National Universities to go to Santa Clara? Does the difference really matter?</p>

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<p>cougar, rankings are kind of . . . interesting. The difference from a Regionally ranked and Nationally ranked institution isn’t the fact that all Nationally ranked schools are better than the Regional ones. It’s just that the ranking criteria end up separating colleges that fill certain criteria in one area and not others. For example, one school offers a plethora of Masters and PhD programs, but another offers only a few Masters or other graduate programs and no PhD. However, they both offer a wide range of undergraduate degrees and otherwise have the same comparable facilities set up for student success. Because of the graduate academics, they are separated. I think being #2 Regional in the West is an outstanding position to be ranked in - if I even payed attention to the rankings . . . which I apparently do.</p>

<p>SCU’s B-School (Leavy) is consistently ranked high, but what has been said about it’s School of C&S? Not too much. Even it’s School of Engineering isn’t mentioned to far outside of the Bay Area. I have heard A LOT more about SJSU’s CS program than SCU’s and they are like 4 miles away from each other.</p>

<p>Still you can’t beat free (or near free) and I’ll say again that if you intend on staying in California if you attended SCU anyway, then when people see your resume with SCU on it, they will know where you went and what type of education you received.</p>

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<p>First of all: thank you to everyone for your responses. I appreciate all of your feedback. This decision is not an easy one. </p>

<p>This varying mix of positive and negative comments makes this discussion so confusing! Most of what people are telling me about Santa Clara is simply based on their perception of the university. After doing more research, I’m starting to see that most people who formulate a negative opinion of the school haven’t done their homework. Over the past few days, here’s what I’ve found:</p>

<p>“The School of Engineering was ranked by U.S. News & World Report in 2007 as 20th in the nation for engineering schools with focus on undergraduate and master’s engineering programs.”</p>

<p>“In 2007 the Undergraduate program at the Leavey School of Business was ranked 27th in the Nation and was 3rd in California by Business Week.” ([Santa</a> Clara University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Santa Clara University - Wikipedia”>Santa Clara University - Wikipedia))</p>

<p>*These are pretty impressive statistics, but here are some of my most SHOCKING findings:</p>

<p>Santa Clara is ranked #4 behind Williams, Dartmouth and Stanford on Forbes’ most recent “Colleges that will make you rich” list. SCU beat out schools like Georgetown, Duke, USC and Berkeley.
([Table:</a> Colleges That Will Make You Rich - Forbes.com](<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/27/college-graduate-salary-earnings-lifestyle-education-colleges-10-rich_table.html]Table:”>Table: Colleges That Will Make You Rich))</p>

<p>Other impressive findings include salary data from PayScale.com:</p>

<p>Santa Clara is ranked #23 overall on PayScale’s “Top US Colleges - Graduate Salary” report. SCU finished one behind Columbia University and ahead of Williams, Yale, Brown, Swarthmore, Carnegie Mellon, Berkeley, McKenna, Southern Cal, Boston College, UChicago, and Johns Hopkins.
([Top</a> US Colleges ? Graduate Salary Statistics](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp]Top”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp))</p>

<p>In 2010 Santa Clara University was ranked 33rd in the 2010 College Return on Investment Report by PayScale.</p>

<p>So I guess the question now becomes, “How does one measure prestige?” For SCU to be ranked so highly in salary surveys, graduates must be hired by top employers. Clearly Santa Clara is doing a good job of preparing students for the workplace and placing them accordingly. </p>

<p>I am starting to see that just because someone hasn’t necessarily heard the name of a school doesn’t mean it isn’t a fine option. </p>

<p>Based on this research, I’d argue that Santa Clara IS on par with schools like USC and Berkeley. Just because it doesn’t offer many doctorates means that it will never be seen that way by the rest of the world, which is ridiculous. </p>

<p>I’ve decided to take my full-ride, work my you-know-what off, and be one of those graduates who earns the average median salary of an SCU grad: $105,000. The only difference between a Standford grad and myself will be one thing: I was educated in the Jesuit tradition.</p>

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<p>Hey, cougar, serious congratulations for making a decision on an educational institution that may have a lot of effect on who you become as a young adult. The decision isn’t easy for many many people.</p>

<p>However, just to point it out, the only difference between you and a Stanford grad won’t just be the Jesuit tradition. According to your own findings, their grads average more in pay too. So I guess they’ll be richer too.</p>

<p>In my opinion, those reports can be subjective and can only say so much. Who’s to say Forbes isn’t rewarded in some way or another to skew their rankings to attract potential students to one college or the other? Just an FYI, in case no one paid attention: Forbes endorsed Rick Perry for the Presidential Republican ticket for 2012. I think that says SOMETHING.</p>

<p>Anyhoo, like I said: the ranking can only say so much. They say it’s best to hear it from the horses mouth and that’s exactly the type of thing this web forum provides - that chance for those who have experienced first hand. With that, I know a lot of SCU graduates that do not, and currently do not have any prospects, to be making near $100k/yr just like I’m sure there are those from Stanford in the same boat. It’s great that you say you’re willing to work your rear off to obtain your goals, and I hope you stick to it. Eventually hard work does pay off.</p>

<p>Don’t let that free ride go to waste. But for now, relax, sit back, take a breather and chew your favorite stick of bubblegum because YOU’RE GOING TO COLLEGE!</p>

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<p>Congratulations on your decision. Im sure you will be thrilled with SCU and with the full ride, so will your parents. Go Broncos!</p>

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<p>To answer your original question I would say Santa Clara Prestige is greater than Michigan’s, Cincinnati, Miami, and Vanderbilt, etc. Also Santa Clara is known as one of the best Business Schools in the Country according to rankings, and is also ranked above UC Berkeley by Forbes. Also Santa Clara Graduates seem to have really strong career prospects. Which would make sense as Santa Clara like said is ranked #4 behind Williams, Dartmouth and Stanford on Forbes’ most recent “Colleges that will make you rich” list. Beating out schools like Georgetown, Duke, USC and Berkeley and that is fact as there is little if any subjectivity in this ranking. I would agree that Santa Clara is on par with schools like USC and Berkeley, and its prestige is on the rise.</p>

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<p>Just curious, Senior2B, you did know that the ranking you were at looking was for a graduate MBA, right? They have a completely separate list for undergrad programs as a whole and SCU is ranked 67th, way below Stanford and the like (including Vanderbilt). I think the OP was inquiring about undergrad. The ranking of SCU on the MBA list is useful IF the student plans on getting their MBA there.</p>

<p>I think it’s interesting when someone says a university’s prestige is on the rise - kinda like a fashion fad. Sure, right now TOMS are on a rise in the footwear market, but are they selling more than Skechers or Nike? I didn’t look up their last quarter sales for comparison, but I doubt it. Will TOMS ever sell more units than Skechers or Nike? I’m not a professional fortune teller, but just going by previous fads in history, I doubt that too. Santa Clara can be “on the rise”, but this was once true for other universities and colleges in the US. I’ll bet that in 1850, when Santa Clara was “founded” there were a whole bunch of colleges that had more prestige than others that are just not that way now.</p>

<p>And just to throw it out there for kicks and giggles - there was a Vanderbilt student the other night in the Championship round of Jeopardy (considered a Finalist). I know there has been two students from each: Santa Clara and Vanderbilt and no one from SCU has gotten past the Semis. This doesn’t mean that V is more prestigious than SCU, but it may show that V students are better at trivia or better at studying trivia. And since you mentioned UMich: they’ve represented 9 contestants since 1990. Their student won the final in 1997 (the year before the first SCU student even appeared) and another student was in the final in 2010 (the same year the second SCU student only made it to the Semis). There was also a UMich student this year. For another comparison, Notre Dame students have appeared 5 times on Jeopardy including 2 finalists and one who took it all. So, again, just going by that doesn’t mean UMich or ND have more prestige, but I think it’s a facet worth noting when talking about how well known a college can be. I’d like to be associated with a student body that has a Jeopardy contestant almost every other year than once every 12 years. But alas, Jeopardy participation IS NOT the only indicator that is indicative of prestige.</p>

<p>Personally, I think the cliche “fit” should matter a lot more to the prospective student than prestige. Prestige alone at a university will not make the student successful. They must be exposed to an atmosphere that is complimentary to their personality and work ethic to reach a high (if not their full) potential. If the OP found this in SCU, then that is absolutely great on them and I beg them to use the resources that SCU can provide to make them successful (MBA, or not).</p>

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<p>And as always, I think financial offerings mean a lot in a college decision too.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure if you need to worry about Prestige as Santa Clara is well regarded. Like said earlier, national ranking vs. regional ranking has to deal with offerings of graduate or Doctorate programs, not that nationally ranked institutions are better than regional. Santa Clara has been said to be the Georgetown of the west so even if you care about prestige, Santa Clara does have it, and especially in the business world where both it rivals Berkeley and USC and most other top programs.</p>