An overview of Berkeley: First Year Experience from a current Undergrad

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
41

<p>i am so glad that you were able to do that riyam, and i commend you</p>

<p>but the thing is that based upon that logic, we should make berkeley even harder. heck, why don't we start a new school called the university of DEATH TO ALL and it will have no advising and no help, but it will ridiculously hard classes. should we go there because it will provide us with a better work ethic and better version of the real world. </p>

<p>i know i use an extreme example, but it is just to show my point that i believe there is a threshold of difficulty, and really it may not be the best thing to push past that threshold. i mean sure we can handle it, and sure it may make us stronger, but i still think its not necesarrily the best thig for you. if your family dies, u are probably going to handle it, and youll probably become stronger from it, but it doesnt mean its pleasant or something you want.</p>

<p>im not saying that berkeley's difficulty is something i totally don't want, but i do wish it would ease up a bit, and why does MIT get the rep for being the hardest, maybe because everything there is hard? i mean at least if we tech/science majors have to work so hard, we deserve to be known for it.</p>

42

<p>"Ochem doesn't give out that many A's (im not sure on the number, but i dont think all that many), Bio is a tough course, Math is tough, Gen chem is hard, biochem, neuro, genetics, all tough courses. I don't mean the material is tough, i mean the grade distribution is a *****."</p>

<p>From the data gathered by pickaprof.com, Frechet gives out 29% A's (of some sort), 27% B's, 26% C's, and so on. That's not exactly a terrible curve. You are making it sound much worse than it actually is.</p>

<p>"ok, ca2006, i actually have survived the first year of cal (finals are coming up), and yeah i've survived ochem. I may not be making an A, but i survived it."</p>

<p>Interesting, the final is next week and makes up 50% of the grade, yet you know you "survived" it.</p>

<p>"Trust me, the reason Berkeley doesn't have a 24-hour library is NOT because they're worried about students procrastinating."</p>

<p>True.</p>

<p>"Yeah I also don't understand why some posters criticize private schools as "holding your hand." What, would you rather have your school punch you in the face? It's a good thing."</p>

<p>It's not exactly a good thing. Let's face it, when you get a job after you graduate, do you think there will be people who help you every step of the way? No, college should teach you to become more independent.</p>

43

<p>um, okay yeah, its fifty percent of my grade, but trust me, im not going to fail. okay, and why would you even SAY something like that. i mean why would you say, "hey you dont know, you may fail, hahahaha" do you go to berkeley, that is truly hateful and your the reason why berkeley is not a very friendly place in my opinion. there is no reason for you to say that i may not survive, that adds NOTHING to anyone's argument.</p>

44

<p>"um, okay yeah, its fifty percent of my grade, but trust me, im not going to fail. okay, and why would you even SAY something like that. i mean why would you say, "hey you dont know, you may fail, hahahaha" do you go to berkeley, that is truly hateful and your the reason why berkeley is not a very friendly place in my opinion. there is no reason for you to say that i may not survive, that adds NOTHING to anyone's argument."</p>

<p>I did not intend for that to be a malicious comment. I just found it interesting that you are complaining about the classes being too difficult and having no where to study for the material. Yet, somehow you know for sure that you will survive the class. Furthermore, you add on "It am doing fine, and I will get into med school." when CA2006 suggests that you might just be whining.</p>

<p>Now, if you're doing fine in the class, then what are you complaining about?</p>

45

<p>I think he's complaining about the general lack of "community" among undergrads. You can be an academic star and have no friends. But is that really the life any reasonable person would want?</p>

46

<p>"I think he's complaining about the general lack of "community" among undergrads."</p>

<p>This lack of "community" exists at every UC. The fact is that UC's are too big and diverse to have a strong community among undergraduates. This is even more evident in the rather poor alumni networks in the UC's. The only way to fix this is to have a smaller student body population, but as a state university that is supposed to serve the entire state, this is near impossible. It's an intrinsic problem.</p>

47

<p>I think everyone agrees that a 24 hour library would be a nice perk, but it's more fantasy than anything else. Hate to sound like a broken record, but it's a public school. It's simple cost-benefit analysis: benefitting a handful of night owls is not worth opening a library around the clock. It's not only a matter of hiring a handful of extra staffers to check ID and make sure you don't snack amongst the shelves, because of the university's responsibility to student safety, it's also necessitating expanded police services at night (especially with additional students floating in and around campus) and likely requiring expanded night shuttle services. It'd be difficult to rationalize hundreds of dollars in operating costs per night to facilitate the studying desires (not necessarily needs) of an overwhelming minority of students. </p>

<p>All this is moot, however, because there is a 24-hour on-campus library/study lounge on the seventh floor at Eschleman. It's no suprise that ASUC would be more responsive to student needs, but this is only possible b/c ASUC owns the building and is therefore responsible for operating costs. So there's really no reason to complain, unless you're wanting a specific library open at specific times. If that's the case, then is it the university not doing enough, or you wanting a little too much? Hmmm....</p>

48

<p>
[quote]
"Yeah I also don't understand why some posters criticize private schools as "holding your hand." What, would you rather have your school punch you in the face? It's a good thing."</p>

<p>It's not exactly a good thing. Let's face it, when you get a job after you graduate, do you think there will be people who help you every step of the way? No, college should teach you to become more independent.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But certainly not to the point where you can't even get a decent job in the first place, which tends to depend on meeting certain 'cutoffs'. What if you don't even make those cutoffs? </p>

<p>The first and harshest cutoff would be simply graduating in the first place. Let's face it. Some Berkeley students flunk out. How exactly does the Berkeley experience help these students? These students would have been better off going to another, easier school. Hence, it would have been better for everybody, * especially those students*, if Berkeley had simply never admitted them in the first place. Where's the virtue in bringing students in only to flunk them right back out? </p>

<p>The 2nd cutoff tends to be around 3.0, although it varies from major to major. But suffice it to say that some GPA cutoff exists for every single student below which it comes dramatically more difficult for that student to accomplish his goals, whether that's to get a good job, or get into a decent graduate school. This is akin to the psychological reasoning for why prices tend be $X.99 as opposed to rounding up to the next dollar. Many recruiters, for example, have a 3.0 GPA cutoff, such that if you have a 2.9, you have a problem. Similarly, I remember some employers using 3.5 cutoffs, such that students with 3.4's couldn't even get interviews. </p>

<p>But the point is, what if your GPA is so low that you can't accomplish your goal (whatever that is)? You can talk about how independent you are, but if you can't get the job that you want, what does it matter, particularly when people from other schools who are supposedly less independent ARE getting the job that you want?</p>

<p>And that's only talking about GPA. Let's put GPA aside. I'm not even sure I buy the argument that Berkeley makes you more independent, relative to the private schools. I think it's more accurate to say that it makes SOME students more independent. Independence by itself means little - what you really want is RESPONSIBLE independence. You can do whatever you want at Berkeley, but the problem is that the school isn't going to guide you as to what you SHOULD be doing. Hence, some people take that independence and botch it terribly, i.e. to flunk out. Hence, the independence only helps those students who are READY for the independence, but many students are not ready. There are a lot of temptations in Berkeley - whether it's the drug scene, the party scene, going to clubs every night in 'Frisco, and so forth. If you become tempted to immerse yourself in that world and neglect your studies, nobody is going to stop you. I've certainly seen people do that and ruin their careers as a result. </p>

<p>Like I said Berkeley is a good school for those students who have the personality to handle it. But the key question has always been - what if you don't have that personality? There are a lot of students who don't have that personality and who frankly would have been better off going to another school.</p>

49

<p>
[quote]
Hence, it would have been better for everybody, especially those students, if Berkeley had simply never admitted them in the first place. Where's the virtue in bringing students in only to flunk them right back out?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How does berkeley go about identifying students who don't have what it takes to cut it? Is this more of the school's problem (ie should they make it easy to graduate) or is this something the student should identify and deal with? I completely understand that you are saying that berkeley is not right for everyone, no single thing is right for everyone.</p>

50

<p>
[quote]
This lack of "community" exists at every UC. The fact is that UC's are too big and diverse to have a strong community among undergraduates. This is even more evident in the rather poor alumni networks in the UC's. The only way to fix this is to have a smaller student body population, but as a state university that is supposed to serve the entire state, this is near impossible. It's an intrinsic problem.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're right, it may be the case that we have to accept this necessary evil as a whole. But there's various particulars that could be improved. For example: dorm life. There is something fundamentally wrong about people not knowing their floormates names after a year. Why can't Berkeley foster "community" at the micro level? I'm not saying it doesn't already foster it, but in general the efforts to foster it generally fail.</p>

51

<p>you forgot the C - it should be HYPSMC.. ; )
on a more serious note- I have heard a lot of horror stories about being lost in the crowd at berkeley..Had i gotten in, i would've probably chosen a lower ranked private uni. over UCB as what i have heard does not paint a very rosy picture of undergraduate life at berkeley..</p>

52

<p>is it just uc berkeley or are all big public universities like this. would it be any different at ut austin, michigan, ohio state etc?</p>

53

<p>I would imagine it is the same at all large public universities, but certain posters try and steer clear of the fact; it doesn't work with the agenda.</p>

<p>If this isn't the case and Berkeley is the only large public university with this problem please do enlighten us.</p>

54

<p>I mean, simply the fact that there is so much debate about the overall quality of undergraduate education should be a redflag. I know I am certainly not the first one to have posted a comment about this quality. There has been this schism between essentially the Berkeley lovers and haters for wayyyyy too long. I mean, maybe that is a bit sharp, how bout the Berkeley supporters and the Berkeley critisizers. Anyways, the point is that there is a reason that my kind of threads prop up and there is reason it creates such massive debate. </p>

<p>Very few other boards that I have seen, at least, on CC have nearly this level of debate over quality. You can attribute this to many things, one that it is a big school so many people on CC go to berkeley, and many plan on going. You can attribute it to CC being hugely California residents, but still, there are other schools that fit that bill.</p>

55

<p>it is not that berkeley is the only public to have these problems, i think the problem is that berkeley is often attributed to being the best, or at least one of the best. few other publics, if any, (perhaps uva) can say that. and i think that berkeley SHOULD be the best, and it is entirely possible for it to at least be a lot better than it is today.</p>

<p>and yes, many other publics do not have many of the problems berkeley has. i don't know about all, but i know that, for example, UT guarantees housing for all four years, and it is a larger school than ever berkeley. </p>

<p>Finally, maybe i don't know about all publics, but to me at least, it doesnt matter because I go to berkeley so obviously my focus is to improve the school that i am at</p>

56

<p>Will Texas take your credits? Maybe it is time to go to Texas.</p>

57

<p>
[quote]
Anyways, the point is that there is a reason that my kind of threads prop up and there is reason it creates such massive debate.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Isn't it essentially like 6 people (most of whom have posted here) with very vocal negative opinions about berkeley vs. most of the posters. I know for a fact that some have already graduated, and are still posting about berkeley being sub-par in many respects. </p>

<p>When things go right for most people they don't say anything, when things go wrong for people they tend to speak up for what they think.</p>

58

<p>your right, there are about six posters who are very vocal about it. However, there are many more who post on occasion like me, about some of the inadequacies of berkeley. and there are also like six very vocal supporters, but then there are of course many others who speak occasionally about it. so, i would say that both sides have their supporters and dissenters</p>

<p>When things go right, true no one posts. but perhaps its not that things don't go right, its that too much goes wrong. again, other boards do not have this level of dissent. i ask you, why are there these six vocal dissenters of berkeley. why do other boards not even have these. i think its just something to think about</p>

59

<p>Well, one is mentally ill. ;)</p>

60

<p>Texas will take my credits, but there the academics keep me at berkeley. I have better research than I would have there, and I like my professors and the classes here. Plus, I am only here for another 1.5 years, it would not make sense to transfer now. I have always said berkeley has very strong academics, its in its other areas that also add to the overall ugrad experience where its lacking. i am just trying to bring some of those to light from my first year experience.</p>