Animation programs: it is time to make a decision

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
21

My impressions of the animation/illustration program at SJSU.

Wow! The strength of the SJSU animation/illustration program is well known in the silicon valley/SF bay area, but seems to be a well-kept secret in the rest of the country. We live in SoCal and had not heard about the program until a search on cc showed @taxguy mentioning the program. DS and I visited the program. So I thought I’d provide more info on the program here on cc.

In a nutshell, the program at SJSU gives a student almost-arts-college-level training in animation/illustration at a public school, traditional university price. In state COA (includes room and board): approx. $25K per year. Out of state COA: approx. $33K per year. Katzenberg at DreamWorks has provided contributions to the program in the past. The program is heavily recruited by the animation industry.

Admission is odd. Students are admitted based on GPA and SAT/ACT scores. No portfolio accepted. They are considering changing this though. Because of the strength of the program, lots of kids apply, which actually makes the required GPA SAT/ACT scores (called the Eligibility Index for the Cal State University system) quite high. If fact, after Computer Science, it is the second hardest major (second highest EI) to get accepted to at SJSU. Here is a link to calculate EI, and what the EI cutoff is for SJSU animation/illustration program:

http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/narr/admission/rec-10079.12651.html
So basically, you have an arts major which is filled with high GPA, high SAT/ACT kiddos in a directional public college.

It takes 5 years to graduate from the program as a frosh. It also takes about 5 years to graduate from the program as a transfer, which angered many parents of transfer students.

After admission, there is an intense, arts-college-like foundation year (for instance 6 hours per week in in-class figure drawing during second semester.) After 3 semesters, there is a portfolio review. The portfolio review consists of the best work that you have done in your classes; no additional pieces are created for it. You are also required to submit a sketchbook. Generally, if you have done A to B level work in your classes, then your portfolio will probably pass review. If you have done B- or worse work in your classes, then you probably will not pass portfolio review. They give you 3 opportunities to pass portfolio review, 1 time for each semester after your 3rd semester. If you do not pass portfolio review, you are relegated to a BA in Design Studies, or you can change you major to something else.

Foundation and the amount of time spent drawing is very important at SJSU and this is where it seems like an arts college. However, there is little to no emphasis on painting and other arts, and there is little to no emphasis on stop motion, motion capture, texturing. The number of hours spent on drawing and animation are definitely grueling. I’ve read on cc how the hours are Ringling are grueling and thus industry folks know that the graduating students are up for the task of a real job. I would say that the same is true for the SJSU students.

Recruiting at SJSU by animation companies is heavy. Approximately 40% are placed in industry within 3 months of graduation. SJSU’s relationships with the industry makes many internships possible, although the student must work to secure the internships; there is not auto-company placement by SJSU or by ShrunkenheadMan. Professionals in the industry routinely give lectures to the students 10-30 times per year. SJSU along with CSUN, CSUF, SFSU participate in DreamCrit. DreamCrit is a monthly Skype/webex meeting whereby students’ portfolios are evaluated by a DreamWorks employee and other students can watch and hear the critiques. On the SJSU A/I website, there are lists of industry folks who have spoken at SJSU, where their students go to work, and list of film/animation festival awards, along with a compilation reel of the students. http://www.sjsu.edu/design/design_programs/ai_design_program/ai_discovering/program_achievements/index.html
http://www.sjsu.edu/design/design_programs/ai_design_program/ai_discovering/featured_work/index.html

ShrunkenHeadMan is the animation/illustration club at SJSU. More than just a club, they provide manpower to a little-funded state university program. They arrange talks by industry folks, provide additional classes for low-charge by having volunteer instructors, if students desire even more instruction (mainly for the transfer students who must ramp up their drawing), provide portfolio review and recs before the real portfolio review, provide internship connections, etc.

As for other SJSU info, SJSU is a commuter, directional state school. Funding is tight. Students have to get used to a bureaucracy and standing in a lot of lines. Dealing with the administration will be like dealing with the DMV, I anticipate. With the A/I program, the coordinators recommend a prescribed roadmap of courses. Based on that roadmap, they ask how many students need to enroll in a particular course for the next semester. Then they try to make the number of sections jibe with the number of students that said that they needed to enroll. So getting the courses does not seem to be a problem per the major coordinators. For living in the dorms, there is an “Arts Village” floor so that A/I majors can live with other A/I majors or other artists. But there will always be a commuter feel.

Lastly, the coordinators of the program and very warm and welcoming and this trickles down and affects the students. The kids in the A/I program were very friendly, accepting, and welcoming.

22

Interesting and perceptive insights into California animation choices. D is recent production grad at lmu, s is current sound/production double major. Most SFTV students are production majors, animation and other programs are smaller. There has been a major departmental push to improve animation with major equipment improvements, emphasis (no resentment on part of d?) Trying to step up but still a little thin perhaps. Would not argue with your analysis, but easier to star in small but possibly improving pond? If the costs you listed in beginning still apply, hard to justify much higher cost for lmu. It is possibly better choice if life includes several changes of major. Good luck at decision time.

23

Yes, LMU’s film production major is great. It’s presence in the entertainment industry is what seems to keep the animation major afloat. Part of the difficulties in animation seems to be the chair in animation (I hope he is not reading this). I have to look up his CV. But leadership matters.

Bill Kroyer, who was a legend at Disney and a Governor for the Animation section of the Academy (of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences), went to teach animation at Chapman/Dodge in 2009 and then became chair of animation sometime later. He has totally shored up the program, heavily beefed up the foundation program, so the work coming out of there looks great over the past few years. The Disney and Pixar folks know about the program and appear to be hiring (because of all of his time at Disney) and he is able to get great animation speakers to come to the program. DS will re-visit Chapman/Dodge next week.

24

@jtmoney,
As for star in a small pond, DS is not so much a star. He loves to draw from imagination and not observation so he needs lots of foundational work. His strength is story…great creative writer and very funny because does standup comedy and improv. Totally needs help with all other things drawing maybe except for character design, which he has had many classes in already.

25

@YoHoYoHo Hey, you have probably seen me at LMU’s animation preview day too (asian female here haha).
I’m currently debating between SJSU and LMU for animation. I really like the core/fundamental classes SJSU offers but I already have formal training in fine arts. Do you know whether LMU has classes in their art department that will just help me brush up on some on the fundamentals and help me design characters, because that’s where I need the most help in?
Did your DS figure out where he’s going?

26

My apologies for bringing up the ethnicity and gender of the admitted students on this post. If it matters, I, too, am an Asian female.

LMU does have a foundation/fundamentals year which is great for the students as an intro. Maybe it would help you brush up on your fundamentals or maybe it would be too basic for you; but it’s always good to draw, I presume. It’s different that SJSU in that it is less in depth and less time spent on each area (eg fig draw 3 hrs per week (LMU) vs 6 hrs per week (SJSU)) which I think would be your preference. DS and I were concerned that it would not give him a strong enough foundation/fundamentals in the drawing from observation.

Below is also the 4 year required courses for the major. Hmm, I don’t see char design. Look up in the course catalog on LMU website to see what classes in char design are available at LMU. Or char design could be included in the course description for ANIM 220.

Forgot to add that LMU will have smaller classes sizes for GE or minor classes than SJSU, closer contact with teachers in the non-animation classes, easier to have a minor because has less course requirements for the major than at SJSU, and of course warmer weather.

Did LMU end up showing some of the student reels? What did you think of them?

DS will be visiting Chapman/Dodge next. Will probably be between SJSU and Chapman/Dodge.

Here is LMU’s foundation year:

Freshman Year FALL
ANIM 100 History of Animation
A survey of the historical developments, styles, techniques, theory, and criticism of animation as an art form. History and use of creative arts used in animation to form effective communication in film and video.
ANIM 110 Visual Development for Animation
Introduction to visual techniques: color theory, design composition, and storyboarding.
ART 153 Drawing I
An introduction to drawing and the development of visual awareness. Experimentation and exploration of technique developed through a variety of subject matter. Varied media, including pencil, charcoal, ink and conte.
Freshman Year SPRING
ANIM 120 Beginning Animation Workshop
An introduction to animation process: organization and integration of various creative arts used in animation; possibilities in style, media, technique, and equipment.
ART 154 Drawing II: Figure Drawing
Development of technique and principles used in Drawing I, ART 153 , with emphasis placed on working from the figure and anatomy.
Prerequisite: ART 153 .

Here is LMU’s all 4 years:

ANIM Major Lower Division Requirements (33 semester hours)

Freshman Year FALL

• ANIM 100 History of Animation 3 semester hours
• ANIM 110 Visual Development for Animation 3 semester hours
• ART 153 Drawing I 3 semester hours
Freshman Year SPRING

• ANIM 120 Beginning Animation Workshop 3 semester hours
• *must earn B or better
• ART 154 Drawing II: Figure Drawing 3 semester hours
Freshman or Sophomore Year (any semester)

• FTVS 210 Art of the Cinema 3 semester hours
• SCWR 220 Beginning Screenwriting 3 semester hours
Sophomore Year FALL

• ANIM 220 Intermediate Animation Workshop 3 semester hours
• ANIM 260 Digital Toolbox 3 semester hours
Sophomore Year SPRING

• ANIM 230 Introduction to 3-D Computer Animation 3 semester hours
• ANIM 250 Introduction to Interactive Animation 3 semester hours
ANIM Major Upper Division Requirements (27 semester hours)

Check course descriptions for prerequisites and sequence.
Sophomore, Junior, Senior Years (any semester)

• ANIM UD Advanced Animation Requirements:
• *must select any four (12 semester hours) from ANIM 300 or 400 level courses.
• ART 300 Figure Drawing Workshop 1 semester hours
• *must take six semester hours total dispersed sophomore through senior years. Other courses by permission of Chairperson.
Senior Year FALL’s

• ANIM 495 Senior Thesis Project/Pre-Production 3 semester hours
Senior Year SPRING

• ANIM 490 Animation Internship 3 semester hours
ANIM 496 Senior Thesis Project/Production 3 semester hours
ANIM Major Lower Division Requirements (33 semester hours)

27

Oops, in case I was not clear:

Bill Kroyer is the chair of animation at Chapman/Dodge, and has really strengthened their foundation/fundamentals.
Tom Klein, previously at the “Simpsons”, is the chair at LMU

"Bill Kroyer, who was a legend at Disney and a Governor for the Animation section of the Academy (of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences), went to teach animation at Chapman/Dodge in 2009 and then became chair of animation sometime later. He has totally shored up the program, heavily beefed up the foundation program, so the work coming out of there looks great over the past few years. The Disney and Pixar folks know about the program and appear to be hiring (because of all of his time at Disney) and he is able to get great animation speakers to come to the program. DS will re-visit Chapman/Dodge next week. "

28

We are back after a week of visiting SCAD, Ringling, LCAD, and LMU. It was a good visit and very informative.
After this we have narrowed our choices to Ringling & LCAD. SCAD is out of consideration as my D didn’t like the Animation building and the lab as well as campus buildings being all over the city.

@yohohoho - Your impressions of LMU are spot on. I got the feeling that animation dept. is not quite in the same league as the rest of the schools. School looks very good and lively.

We loved Ringling. We talked to many of the Illustration teachers and students. We went around the neighborhood around campus in the night as well to check out how “sketchy” the area was. Ringling’s focus on finding internships/recruitment is quite impressive. Dorm and residence halls are average and nothing to rave about.

We like LCAD’s animation program. However D is concerned that the school is too small (about 500 students). My concern is that they don’t have cafetaria (lunch trucks visit the campus daily) and they have limited transportation.
For example if students work late at night there is no transportation back to their apartments. It is necessary to have a car or find ride with other students who have car. Since there is no cafetaria on campus students have to be more prepared when it comes to food (if staying late, they should make arrangements to get food from outside or bring from their apt). But the small school atmosphere seems to go well with the art program as it is very focussed on its core purpose. Mainly, the campus consists of two buildings (and I think there is one more for MFA which I didn’t get to see). To get from one building to the other (animation to art studios for example) the school provides van service which runs every 30 min or so and I believe it runs from morning till the classes are done. In addition the van takes students to the Laguna beach downtown area as well as their freshman dorm and the Laguna Club apartments where most of the sophomore/jr/sr live. In general, students who go there must be ready to deal with issues related to transportation and food. Overall, due to the strength of their Animation program I am willing to consider them.

Apart from schools all of the above places are great to visit:

  • Savannah - looks pretty, nice to walk around and look at old building. Seems reasonably safe. We walked around the main downtown area late in the evening/night and there were many people and well lit.
    -Sarasota - We loved the Siesta Key beach. Ringling Museum and the Aquarium. The beach unbelievably beautiful (white sand).
    -Laguna Beach- Very nice beach town filled with art studios, shops (great for window shopping). The crescent bay beach was spectacular. The weather in the canyon was warm (not hot) and very pleasant.
    -LMU is located close to LAX - so nothing much to say about the area. But LMU campus itself is excellent and offers a great views of LA & Pacific ocean. It is a self-contained campus so students have access to everything within the campus itself. The traffic from LB to LMU was horrendous! I also noticed the Otis college of art & design is quite close to LMU. We didn’t visit it.
29

“The traffic from LB to LMU was horrendous!”
Yep, that’s traffic every day in the Los Angeles area. We have fantastic weather. The trade off is terrible traffic and sky high real estate prices. If you Zillow or Trulio the real estate prices in Laguna Beach, you will be amazed at the prices. BTW, Laguna Beach is considered a very artsy area. Lots of street type art shows and street fairs.

“I also noticed the Otis college of art & design is quite close to LMU.”
Yes, less than 5 miles away.

Isn’t Ringling’s program known as the top 3D animation program in the country, though?

30

@YoHoYoHo The student animation reels compared to schools such as RingLing, LCAD, SJSU, and even Drexel are not as impressive. The student’s that the director mention who won bronze in the student Oscars portfolio was definitely lacking, since it consisted mostly of anime digital artworks and some figure drawings. I would definitely say schools such as LMU or Chapman focus more on the technical side of animation, teaching you how to use the programs and how to tell stories rather than the aesthetic side.
I am concerned with the competition in the LA area. Since there’s so many other schools with great animation programs, I personally think SJSU is a “safer” route, since tech companies also look for artist/animators to work for them, not just production companies and student loans won’t be as high.

All in all, it just comes down to the matter of how much effort one puts into their work in college. I guess right now I’m leaning towards SJSU over LMU, Chapman, and other art schools (since I also want to get a minor in comp sci). If you are concern about your son getting the class that he needs, I was told by current students that those with high GPA or in the Honors Program get priority in getting classes in SJSU.

31

Thanks for reporting back what you saw on the reels at LMU during the tour.

Actually, SJSU is DS #1 choice after we visited last week, but we are doing due diligence by checking out additional programs.

Went to CSUN today. Of course, great industry connections, lots of internships due to location in San Fernando valley near most of the animation and production studios. Takes 5-6 years to graduate from program. Yikes. Degree is BA Art with Animation Concentration and no portfolio requirement for admission or to graduate; however, teacher (St Pierre) says that they push everyone because they don’t want bad, unemployed artists out in the world. St Pierre gave awesome industry advice. Their animation club brings in 4 speakers every semester, 2 for lectures on industry, 2 workshops. Today they were having a 5 hour workshop on with a texturing artist.

DS and I watched reels of many of the colleges on the internet. Of course, we liked the Ringling reels the best! Our order of reel preference for colleges in CA were DS was accepted was SJSU, Chapman/Dodge, CSUF, CSULB, CSUN, LMU. DS is not really any expert but does have some knowledge. I have no knowledge but know if I am entertained, or if things look odd.

As for “competition” in the LA market, I don’t think that you need to worry about this. Bottom line is that job offers will be based on your reel and your connections and networks. It sounds like you are a great artist already; if so, then you will probably do fine in the LA market as long as you have connections and networks.

Seems like SJSU has great connections and networks. CSUN seemed to have slightly stronger connections than LMU, based on our tour today. LMU still does have great connections as well.

BTW, the other boy applicant at LMU preview day told us that he was planning on committing to SJSU.
I didn’t want to mention it to sway your opinion, since you were leaning towards LMU, but I’ll mention it now since you are starting to sway towards SJSU.

32

LMU animation chair appears to be from a tech background. He mentioned that he worked for a software company. Maybe that explains why the focus is more towards technical skills than aesthetics. Perhaps, I am wrong.
However, he also said that minoring in comp.sci. will be a good asset to have for Animators. I am not sure how practical that is, given the work load of Animation major itself.

33

@YoHoYoHo Our D has been accepted at CSUF, CSULB as well. We also heard that it takes 5 years at the minimum to major in Animation. Hence we stopped looking into them. My D’s friend studied at SJSU and we heard through her that the Animation program went through some funding crisis which affected the availability of resources/staffing. D didn’t want to take a chance and did not apply even though it is right next door to us.
She has four choices now: SCAD & LMU for Animation. Ringling for Illustration. She has to apply to LCAD for animation. Most likely we will settle with either Ringling or LCAD.

34

@writef,
Yes, it takes 5 years to graduate from a CSU so I included the 5 year cost in my analysis. But for CSUN to say that it might take 6 years? Ugh!

I forgot to add that CSUN’s campus was actually quite beautiful. Modern buildings, wide open walkways and spaces and very large. Looked kind of like LMU but with modern taller buildings. You walk by all of these nice buildings and landscapes to get to the crappy looking art building. What a letdown. But overall the campus is gorgeous. SJSU is small and pretty utilitarian and ugly.

With SJSU, not sure if it was a funding crisis that caused it, but basically, it seems that they totally clamped down on admissions to the major. Kids can only take anim classes if they are in the major. SJSU will not allow any transfers into the animation major if you are an SJSU student, only if you are a transfer student etc.

35

Minors at lmu fairly straight forward, usually about 18 credits of basic courses from the major. It,s not horrible advice, gives a focus to your excess electives beyond major and general ed requirements. Seems to show that tech background, only good advice for those inclined that way. Project work can usually overlap some, but animation majors actually don’t have time to sleep anyway, right.

36

We just visited Chapman and it is quite impressive–the facility is state-of-the-art and the students’ work is amazing. We are from the opposite coast, though, and my son is grappling with staying out this way, with a school that isn’t strong in animation but is in graphic design, vs. Chapman’s animation program (and being thousands of miles away). Can I just ask for a general opinion from “those in the know” as to how strongly people feel about Chapman’s Animation dept.? Would he be foolish to turn this acceptance down? Is it really that selective and, therefore, a gem in the mix? And what is the general social life like at Chapman–specifically for Dodge kids? Any help would be so greatly appreciated!

37

DS will be revisiting Chapman/Dodge next week and sitting in on a Digital Arts class - Mechanics and motion - something like that. We visited last winter, but this was just before the new Digital Arts building was finished so have not toured that. DS will be visiting solo so I’m interested in hearing what he has to say.

Here’s the anecdotes that I’ve heard about Chapman/Dodge. They are in my previous posts above, but I will summarize here.

First, @gladiatorbird’s kiddo chose Chapman over LMU and USC, maybe 3 years ago or so. DS felt that the foundation/fundamentals was not as strong as an art’s college. So her DS transferred from Chapman to LCAD after 1 year. However, GB notes that the work coming out of Chapman has really improved over the past few years, so she presumes that the foundation work has been strengthened.

Spoke with people in the industry. They all seem to know Bill Kroyer, who is the chair of the animation dept of Chapman. He was well known at Disney and he is a Governor in Animation at the Academy of Motion Pictures. He joined Chapman’s faculty in 2009 and I’m not sure when he became Chair. He strongly believes in fundamentals, so maybe the foundation work has been strengthened. Because he is well-known in the animation community, he probably gets great speakers in the industry. Per an email with a Chapman student, they get a good amount of internships and job placement.

DS had always presumed that his order of preference would be USC, LMU, then Chapman. Didn’t get admitted to USC. The industry people all said “LMU has an animation program?” so wasn’t well known, yet they knew about Chapman.

My impression is that Dodge’s animation dept lags behind their film dept. Not sure how “selective” the program is. The Dodge community gets pretty close because they have so many projects that require lots of time together. Some of the regular Chapman kids probably feel that Dodge kids get more benefits because the Dodge programs have the most selective admission at Chapman.

In trying to decide between colleges, DS and I are using the student reels, and internship/job placement, and network and connections. Chapman/Dodge seems to been pretty well ranked on all 3 of these.

What is the other college that your kid is considering?

38

Thanks so much for the informative response. The other is BU for Graphic Design–they don’t have an Animation major, but a couple of animation courses. It would be a completely different experience in many ways. They have a very selective Visual Arts program; but, again, it doesn’t offer an Animation major.

39

Does anyone have any knowledge of/opinion about Boston University’s Visual Arts/Graphic Arts program?

40

@lucyloo,
If you start a new thread on this visual arts forum and on the parents forum, you will probably get me traction