<p>FOB and ABC has struggled against each other ever since the arrival of waves of Asian immigrants in 60s. I think the problem here is not within asian community, for the root of the problem has nothing to do with FOBs, the ABCs or twinkies acted as aggressors who expressed their cultural anxiety by actively oppressing the others, the weaker immigrant group, whom we call FOBs.
The white men are indeed keeping us all down. The point, however, is not to prove it, but to struggle against such a paradigm and pray one day FOBs would integrate their genuine understanding of foreign lands into the melting pot of American society. (For instance, they may act as ambassadors or area specialists assisting American policy makers)
I feel that people here have no idea how a FOB feel, despite the fact that they were once FOBs. How could people be so snobbish and arrogant to new comers? FOBs are haunted by nostalgia, you people complain how weird it is when you are inside some sort of Asian cultural club, what if I put you right among a pool of authentic chinese? Would you feel comfortable, and adapt the that cultural without any hesitation or nostalgia? I doubt it.
Some FOBs are indeed very ignorant of the American culture, but what we can do is persuade them, actively conversing with them in hope of assimilation, which is, I think, the fundamental principle behind the multicultural clubs.</p>
<p>YOU were the one dismissing the American culture, for starters.</p>
<p>As for being amongst a group of genuine Chinese? I don't know if you count Hong Kongese as "genuine chinese", but for the purpose of your argument: I'm both comfortable and happy with such situations as I had last year, when the majority of people on my floor were from 1) Hong Kong 2) Singapore and Chinese. </p>
<p>In short, I simply fail to see how "the white man is keeping you down". Show me ANY demonstrable evidence. The irony of it being "the white man" now, is that historically, it was never "white men"- the Italians, Irish, Polish... all actually oppressed minorities, all white. Show me a company that won't hire someone because they're Asian. Show me a company where that would even cross the hiring party's mind. There are definitely biases against asians, but I fail to see how "the white man is keeping us down" is actually a valid argument in this day and age.</p>
<p>pharmakeus01: Please look up the difference between plural monoculturalism and multiculturalism. You may also be interested a writer who has written much on the distinction -- Amartya Sen, who is an Indian Nobel Prize Winner for Economics, by the way.</p>
<p>The "white man" is merely the thin culture (the "mainstream"), against which "thick" (salient) traits are constrasted. The thin culture can sometimes feel repressive because the Nash</a> equilibria it promotes may not always feel like the Pareto optimal. Nevertheless, often the thin culture's supposed "repression" is not out of malice, but ignorance. This is not to suggest anything inherently bad with the thin culture -- just that the thin culture remains closed to only itself, and the thick cultures do likewise, and the inertia against switching strategies is very high. And of course, the more difficult it is to switch strategies from one Nash equilibrium to another, the more likely inefficiency might result (e.g. cultural resentment / unhappiness / etc.)</p>
<p>That was a shockingly lucid explanation Galoisien- nicely put.</p>
<p>I'm Asian involved in one of the Asian organizations @ my school, and I actually like white ppl attending our club because it gives me a sense that our culture is being appreciated by other people like yourself.</p>
<p>Self segregation is bad? Ninja please.</p>
<p>Let's wait until Hollywood stops stereotyping Asians, Asian porn stops being a fetish, Americans become more culturally aware of diversity among Asian populations, Asians become active voters, Asian men are given better reputations among the community, Asian men start becoming politicians and TV anchors, Republicans stop bashing China, more Asians immigrate (they are less than 5 percent of the total population), and Americans become less obsessed with Orientalism. Only then would I expect to see self segregation to end.</p>
<p>The same goes for other "minorities" out there. If you think that growing up white is the same as growing up as a minority, you are painfully mistaken. True, our country has come a long way in terms of promoting multicultural awareness, but given the current situation people will feel more comfortable associating with those who share similar experiences while growing up.</p>
<p>When I smash self-segregation, I speak as one who has done it himself. And abhors it in retrospect. I speak as a third culture kid, a gen 1.5'er. I speak as someone who respects the distinguished Indian economic (and cultural) theorist Amartya Sen.</p>
<p>Now, joining a multicultural group is one thing. But these groups should be dedicated to a culture, and promoting it to everyone, not dedicated to being hangout club for an ethnically-closed group.</p>
<p>When does that ever happen? The culture clubs at my school has plenty of non-Asians.</p>
<p>I'm not a self-segregator, but I can totally see why it happens. When I am with my Asian friends, I can talk about things that I could never talk to with me non-Asian friends. My point is, unless growing up as a minority is EXACTLY the same as growing up otherwise, self segregation is inevitable.</p>
<p>Growing up a certain culture is not just superficial, it defines your experience, upbringing, and psyche. People who grow up in similar cultures can relate to each other better. I can see how self-segregation can have its disadvantages, but I can't see why it's BAD.</p>
<p>I'm not at all alien to the problems of cultural integration. For the record, I happen to be big adherent of Malcolm X because he wakes people up (even after his death) to cultural bigotry that otherwise goes unnoticed, as well as the affected groups themselves. </p>
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People who grow up in similar cultures can relate to each other better. I can see how self-segregation can have its disadvantages, but I can't see why it's BAD.
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<p>First sentence: of course. But I do not believe that the culture you grew up in imprisons you in a certain mindset all your life. I hold that ultimately, especially as we youths begin to achieve some measure of independence from our parents, we can choose the culture we belong to. Note that the concepts of "temporarily nearly-all-Asians" and "self-segregated group" are distinct.</p>
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When does that ever happen? The culture clubs at my school has plenty of non-Asians.
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That's good for the clubs at your school. But I have yet to see that at my own school or at any other school I've visited. Galoisien's characterization matches every such ethnic club I've seen so far.</p>
<p>Granted, they do partake in multicultural activities now and then, like dancing competitions or talent shows between organizations, but for the most part (and by most, I mean nearly all) they serve as a place for people of an ethnicity to hang out amongst themselves and only themselves.</p>
<p>Most of the people I know who belong to groups like this don't have any real friends outside of that group.</p>
<p>I know some sports players who talk about sports all day, join sports clubs, and only hang out with their friends from these sports clubs. Fraternity/sorority people do this as well. Does that make them self segregating?</p>
<p>I don't see how exclusive strong bonds among culture clubs are any different from this kind of behavior in any other club.</p>
<p>I agree with you on the diversity part, I myself enjoy diversity and am a fan of visiting different culture clubs. But I won't judge people for self segregating, because I don't see too much of a problem in it.</p>
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Does that make them self segregating?</p>
<p>I don't see how exclusive strong bonds among culture clubs are any different from this kind of behavior in any other club.
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<p>The difference, lollybo, is that a lot of sports clubs actively recruit those who are not hardcore sports people and try to make them hardcore sports people. For example, take rowing in my school. They take random newbies who happen to be dedicated enough and turn them into Olympic-level rowers.</p>
<p>My diction is horrible in #49 -- I meant to say, "and he wakes the affected groups up as well".</p>
<p>I believe this is a conflict between integration and keeping one's "self" intact. While it is "best" to be a renaissance man/woman by taking in values from different cultures and integrating them into your identity, I feel that these self segregating groups feel sort of like a home, or a support group. For example, take food. When not Asians hear the word pigs' feet or sea cucumber, many of them wrinkle their noses in disgust, whereas Asians can identify positively with these foods. Even with explaining and sometimes even with tasting, palates raised in the west tend to be very different from the palates from the east. I am reminded of several tv shows where the main character eats food from a foreign country and comments on the amazing taste of certain foods only to vomit when being told that the food is something not normally found in his/her diet. I never really understood why though =P, if it tastes good, eat it! (I would probably be disgusted if it's something like human flesh though. I know, I know, hypocrisy)</p>
<p>These groups are basically a sort of insta-circle of friends sort of thing. It's something for certain people to identify with right away. The downside is that there's a chance you might never break out of that group, but who really cares? There is a really fine line between completely conforming and becoming too alienated. There probably isn't a line at all! I like to think that I understand both sides of the issue, with one side saying that self segregating groups don't really respect mainstream culture and the other side saying that self segregating groups are there for those that identify with each other. What's so wrong about wanting to be enclosed in cliques? It's the person's choice.</p>
<p>Oh and to answer OP's question, I don't think anyone would mind a person of another race joining a club not of his/her race. It's a club! I also don't think that self-segregating groups should form clubs if it's just a shell for socializing; a club should attempt to accomplish something.</p>
<p>Groups dedicated to a type of lifestyle or culture are different from self-segregating groups ... this is the issue. </p>
<p>You're supposed to go out of your comfort level in college anyway. For instance, take me, a not-very-strongly-built Asian, trying out for crew...</p>
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What's so wrong about wanting to be enclosed in cliques? It's the person's choice
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<p>Negative externality? That person imposes a negative social cost on others, that builds up as more people do the same.</p>
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I'm not a self-segregator, but I can totally see why it happens. When I am with my Asian friends, I can talk about things that I could never talk to with me non-Asian friends. My point is, unless growing up as a minority is EXACTLY the same as growing up otherwise, self segregation is inevitable.
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I.. have to agree to some degree with this. I can't talk to my nonasian friends about my favorite singers, my favorite shows, culture etc. It's sometimes just much more comfortable to talk to people that understands it... I mean when I went to school with 2% asian population most of my friends were white o_O. and now all my friends in college are mostly Asians still somehow... (20%asian population). I didn't intend it to be, it just happened. So it's not like I can't make friends with people of the different race, I just can talk about topics I couldn't with my high school friends.</p>
<p>I honestly don't really mind cultural clubs. People want to learn the language, learn their culture, enjoy it, teach it whatever. Least there's something sorta connecting people together like their culture, history etc not just race (Chinese clubs, Italian clubs, etc). What I personally don't really get are the stuff like Asian American clubs... They all grew up in the similar environment as other americans and the only thing that binds them together really is the race....... but isn't it a lil weird to have a white american club? I know minorities grow up differently than non minorities (I'm a minority myself technically) but I mean the cultural gap isn't that huge.... I would think. And it also binds all asians together into one group... o_O asian is just such a broad term.</p>
<p>But if they want to bind together, who's going to stop them? I mean whatever negative social cost might come with it will be their own consequence. oh well. It's not like we can dictate "Hey you! be multicultural! be friends with that kid from <em>insert race/country here</em>!" People just bind together with people they feel comfortable with.</p>
<p>"What I personally don't really get are the stuff like Asian American clubs... They all grew up in the similar environment as other americans and the only thing that binds them together really is the race......."</p>
<p>A lot of times there are clubs like these in order to preserve their Asian culture (Asian new year, language, et cetera). Students in these clubs know that its really hard to maintain traditional culture when everyone is so quickly adapting to American culture. Other than that, sometimes a student grew up in an all-white community and would like to meet other people with their same ethnicity for a change.</p>
<p>'Asian culture' in general does not exist. Asian culture is a word that is talking about collective of many different cultures (sometimes that shouldn't be mixed together.) If they want to learn cultures then aren't there stuff like Japanese culture club, chinese culture club, vietnamese culture club etc etc but they all vary alot from each other. They share different ideas, foods, customs, clothes, etc. I guess you could have a club that tries to go into a lil bit of all of them but 'asian culture' isn't one single culture. All the cultures are very different, and I know because I still can't understand some neighborhood country's cultures and they are right next to us (I live in Korea so countries like China, etc).</p>
<p>I'm not against meeting people of the same ethnicity but I don't know, I personally don't like clubs like asian-american clubs. I really rather have <em>insertcountry</em> culture club rather than still <em>race/continent</em>-american club.... personal thoughts. I wish there would be an underlying basis for bringing people together and not just their race?? Whatever, their choice.</p>
<p>I mean can you imagine if a "white culture club" was formed or something? Even "european culture club" would be a little bit weird for me because all the countries have really different cultures. Which is the same for all the asian cultures. </p>
<p>people just put alot of countries into this one category and expect them all to be the same which obviously is not the case.</p>
<p>Well this is also why 'Asian Club' usually doesn't exist or isn't usually as prominent as Vietnamese Student Association, Indian Student Association, Chinese Cultural Student Association, et cetera. </p>
<p>However, clubs such as the Asian/Pacific American Student Union (APASU) usually have a goal of uniting the other specific ethnic clubs.</p>
<p>For example, from Old Dominion University's website:
"Keith Chow founded the Asian Pacific American Student Union in 1998. Since the beginning, APASU has sought to improve communications between on-campus Asian organizations, as well as provide a voice for the Asian American community here at Old Dominion. APASU offers itself as an open forum for all things Asian American, and strives to be the center of the Asian American community at ODU. This year, APASU has worked closely with Multicultural Student Services in the
execution of Asian Seasons hosting forums and movies – aimed at creating a sense of awareness needed in the Asian community. APASU also continued its tradition of Pass the Mic, an open mic night for anyone in the Old Dominion community to come speak their mind. APASU only asks that we all work together with an open mind for a closer community."</p>
<p>Asian (or other multicultural) clubs are annoying. Segregation ftl</p>
<p>Once again, true multiculturalism is different from plural monoculturalism you guys.</p>