Annual U.S. self-flagellation over PISA test scores

<p>

</p>

<p>I would say owning a DVD player (or gaming system that plays DVD’s) is so common in the US that it’s a useless measure for US poverty. </p>

<p>If you don’t take into account cultural differences (including who exactly is getting tested in this countries), you could reach results that don’t match reality, such as China having a superior educational system compared to Finland.</p>

<p>This is an interesting opinion piece by Jiang Xueqin, deputy principal of Tsinghua University High School in Beijing.</p>

<p>[Opinion:</a> The costs of Shanghai’s education success story - CNN.com](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/opinion/china-education-jiang-xueqin/]Opinion:”>http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/opinion/china-education-jiang-xueqin/)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Linear Algebra and multivariable calculus is considered 2nd year college courses for STEM majors, with states only requiring Algebra2 as a graduation requirement (and for many States this is a new requirement). Kids who do normally well in math are in Precalculus in the 12th grade (not a requirement) and in many districts that’s when they take trigonometry. Kids who do well and are lucky enough to be in a district that offers the class can take Calculus AB and/or Calculus BC. Calculus BC is quite advanced compared to the math curriculum in many European countries, much more advanced than TS sp</p>

<p>

The items that are most common tend to lead to the best correlation with poverty estimates. For example, according to 2010 US census estimates, the ~10% of households that did not have a DVD player were twice as likely to be below the poverty line as the general population, showing an obvious correlation with poverty. Each income quintile had a larger percentage of DVD player ownership than the quintile below it. The gap was particularly large between the lowest quintile and 2nd lowest. The only consumer durables that had significantly greater than 2x odds of being below the poverty line were owning a television, stove, and refrigerator. However, of these measures, DVD players had by far the largest sample size, so it would produce more reliable score averages. As previously stated, DVD players was an arbitrary example to show all measures correlated with lower wealth have a similar order.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Nice point!</p>

<p>I’m interested in this idea as well. Are “disadvantaged” students given the same opportunities as non disadvantaged students and, most importantly IMO, are they also given the tools to take advantage of those opportunities? Also, are the disadvantaged consistently exposed to the newest teachers who are still in the developmental stages? What is the average length of experience of administrators in poor urban districts? How long do teachers and administrators stay in these districts! Are their campuses safe and inviting?</p>

<p>Similar comparison can be made inside US. Asian are majority in some of the best California high schools. For example, San Marino High School near LA and Lynbrook High School near San Jose.</p>

<p>Many people here seem to believe that the mediocre performance of the US on PISA is to be blamed on the poor and racial minorities. But the data show that even our best students compare very poorly in these tests.</p>

<p>Ranking of 95th percentile Math scores:



1. Shanghai-China   765
2. Chinese Taipei   738
3. Singapore        737
4. Korea        710
5. Hong Kong-China  709
6. Japan        686
7. Macao-China      685
8. Switzerland      681
9. Liechtenstein    680
10. Belgium     677
11. Poland      669
12. Germany     667
13. Netherlands     665
13. New Zealand     665
15. Canada      663
15. Australia       663
17. Finland     657
17. Estonia     657
…
35. United States   634
OECD average        645

Ranking of 90th percentile Math scores:


</p>

<ol>
<li>Shanghai-china   737</li>
<li>Singapore        707</li>
<li>Chinese Taipei   703</li>
<li>Korea        679</li>
<li>Hong Kong-China  679</li>
<li>Japan        657</li>
<li>Macao-China      657</li>
<li>Liechtenstein    656</li>
<li>Switzerland      651</li>
<li>Belgium     646</li>
<li>Netherlands     638</li>
<li>Germany     637</li>
<li>Poland      636</li>
<li>Canada      633</li>
<li>New Zealand     632</li>
<li>Australia       630</li>
<li>Finland     629
…</li>
<li>United States   600
OECD average        614

At 75th percentile, US is again ranked at the 35th place, below the OECD average.



1. Shanghai-China   685
2. Singapore        650
3. Chinese Taipei   645
4. Hong Kong-China  629
5. Korea        624
6. Liechtenstein    606
7. Macao-china      605
8. Japan        603
9. Switzerland      597
10. Netherlands     591
11. Belgium     589
12. Germany     583
13. Canada      580
14. Poland      580
15. Finland     577
16. Estonia     576
17. Austria     572
…
35. United States   543
OECD average        558

</p>

<p>That is of far greater concern. What fraction of the population really needs strong math skills? Most people don’t need any math beyond simple algebra, perhaps basic geometry, in their lives–if even that much. We should be worrying more about how we are educating the kids who are actually going to use this knowledge. Our schools are not as supportive as they could or should be to these kids.</p>

<p>For the highly educated father metric, once you take out cities and city-states:</p>

<ol>
<li>Japan</li>
<li>Korea</li>
<li>Switzerland<br></li>
<li>Austria</li>
<li>Netherlands<br></li>
<li>Finland<br></li>
<li>Hungary<br></li>
<li>Germany</li>
<li>New Zealand</li>
<li>Australia</li>
<li>Slovenia</li>
<li>Portugal</li>
<li>USA</li>
</ol>

<p>Which isn’t awful but isn’t great either. The most comparable country would be Canada which it appears we beat there. Though this is just one metric.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I think the wrong math is taught. For instance, I’ve never once had occasion to use Geometry/Trigonometry outside of school. I can’t think of a single instance in daily life or of hardly any jobs where either can be used. However I’ve seen combinatorics apply all over the place. The only combinatorics we had was like a week in high school algebra (and many high schools don’t have that even).</p>

<p>Ranking of 95th percentile Reading scores:



1.  Singapore   698
2.  Shanghai-China  690
3.  Japan       689
4.  New Zealand 679
5.  Hong Kong-China 672
6.  Finland     669
6.  France      669
8.  Canada      667
9.  Korea       665
10. Australia   664
11. Belgium     663
12. Ireland     659
12. Chinese Taipei  659
14. Norway      658
15. Israel      656
16. Poland      655
17. Luxembourg  651
18. Netherlands 650
18. United kingdom  650
20. Liechtenstein   649
21. Switzerland 648
22. Sweden      647
23. Germany     646
23. United states   646</p>

<pre><code>OECD average    642
</code></pre>

<p>

Ranking of 90th percentile Reading scores:



1.  Singapore   668
2.  Shanghai-China  667
3.  Japan       658
4.  Hong Kong-China 648
5.  New Zealand 645
6.  Korea       640
7.  Finland     639
7.  France      639
9.  Canada      638
10. Belgium     635
11. Australia   634
12. Chinese Taipei  633
13. Ireland     631
14. Liechtenstein   630
15. Norway      627
16. Poland      626
17. Netherlands 625
18. Israel      624
19. Switzerland 622
20. Germany     621
21. Luxembourg  620
22. United Kingdom  619
23. Estonia     618
24. Sweden      614
24. United States   614</p>

<pre><code>OECD average    613

Ranking of 75th percentile Reading scores:



1.  Shanghai-China  626
2.  Singapore   614
3.  Japan       607
4.  Hong Kong-China 604
5.  Korea       596
6.  Finland     590
7.  Canada      587
7.  Chinese Taipei  587
9.  New Zealand 586
10. France      584
10. Liechtenstein   584
12. Belgium     583
13. Ireland     582
14. Australia   579
14. Poland      579
16. Netherlands 579
17. Germany     574
18. Norway      573
18. Switzerland 573
20. Estonia     571
21. Israel      568
22. United Kingdom  567
23. Macao-China 566
24. Luxembourg  564
25. United States   561</p>

<pre><code>OECD average    563

</code></pre>

<p>Ranking of 95th percentile Science scores:



1.  Singapore   714
2.  Shanghai-China  704
3.  Japan       693
4.  Finland     692
5.  Australia   682
6.  New Zealand 682
7.  Hong Kong-China 679
8.  Estonia     672
8.  United Kingdom  672
10. Germany     671
11. Canada      670
12. Poland      668
13. Netherlands 667
14. Ireland     666
15. Korea       664
16. Slovenia    661
17. Belgium     658
17. Switzerland 658
19. Liechtenstein   656
20. Luxembourg  655
21. United States   652</p>

<pre><code>OECD average    648

Ranking of 90th percentile Science scores:



1.  Singapore   681
1.  Shanghai-China  681
3.  Japan       664
4.  Finland     662
5.  Hong Kong-China 655
6.  Australia   650
7.  New Zealand 649
8.  Estonia     645
9.  Germany     642
10. Netherlands 641
11. United Kingdom  639
11. Canada      639
11. Korea       639
14. Poland      637
14. Ireland     637
16. Liechtenstein   635
17. Slovenia    631
18. Belgium     630
18. Switzerland 630
20. Chinese Taipei  626
21. Vietnam     625
22. Luxembourg  624
23. Austria     623
24. France      622
24. Czech Republic  622
26. Norway      620
27. United States   619</p>

<pre><code>OECD average    619
</code></pre>

<p>

Ranking of 75th percentile Science scores:



1.  Shanghai-China  639
2.  Singapore   627
3.  Japan       614
4.  Hong Kong-China 613
5.  Finland     609
6.  Estonia     597
7.  Korea       595
8.  Australia   592
8.  Germany     592
10. New Zealand 591
10. Netherlands 591
12. Canada      588
12. Liechtenstein   588
14. Ireland     586
15. United Kingdom  584
15. Poland      584
17. Chinese Taipei  582
18. Viet nam    580
19. Belgium     579
19. Switzerland 579
21. Slovenia    578
22. Macao-China 575
23. Czech Republic  572
24. Austria     571
25. France      570
26. Luxembourg  566
27. Norway      564
28. United States   563</p>

<pre><code>OECD average    566
</code></pre>

<p>

</p>

<p>

For that matter, what fraction of the population really needs STRONG English, science, social studies, and language skills? Does an air conditioning repairman really need to know how to analyze Hamlet? </p>

<p>Should we end public education earlier? Not all developed countries offer public secondary education to the equivalent of grade 12. </p>

<p>Or maybe the U.S. should cut its losses for non college-stream students, and focus on vocational training, because it’s clear the U.S. isn’t getting value for money in trying to teach geom/trig.</p>

<p>chashaobao, I don’t think those charts really make your point. If the USA starts off with a low overall average, looking at the 75th or 95th percentile should still show the US in the same relative (low) spot. The sampling size is large enough that you shouldn’t expect “clumping” at the two ends of the curve, but a more normal distribution.</p>

<p>SophieIsabel ,</p>

<p>"About the physics in 8th grade article: I am European, and I am just wondering why it is unusual to have physics in 8th grade? "</p>

<p>Ohhhh … my pain. </p>

<p>In California, kids may get Physics, Chemistry, or Biology in 11th grade, the earliest! Also, they can choose which subject they take (Physics, Chemistry, or Biology). In other words, many kids can graduate HS without taking a class in Physics, at all. </p>

<p>Before 11th grade - we have a strange subject called “science”, which is a strange soup from Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Health Science, Nutrition, Earth Science, Geology, Drug Prevention, and whatever else. This class has neither logic, nor sequence. It’s like a collection of National Geographic movies, taken at random.</p>

<p>"All this metric does is measure degree of urbaness, not income. People who live in big cities don’t own cars. "</p>

<p>Ok, lets compare US and Chinese urban populations. Do you think this comparison would be in favor of US?</p>

<p>I can’t believe that people try to convince each other that the majority of Chinese kids are wealthier than American kids. Can’t you just look at income data for Chinese families and compare it to a typical US family? Minimal salary in China? Social benefits? </p>

<p>There are plenty of really poor kids in China. Kids that have little to eat. American “underprivileged” teenagers with iPhones would be considered superrich by Chinese standards. </p>

<p>How often Chinese kids own a cellphone? (any model). How often poor urban minority US kids own smartphones? …</p>

<p>^ Why are you so certain that all underprivileged children/teens in the U.S. own an Iphone?</p>

<p>beachlover15 ,</p>

<p>I am certain that significantly higher percentage of underprivileged kids own smartphones in USA than in China. I think Chinese kids have less wealth than American kids, even if you compare underprivileged subpopulations.</p>

<p>I don’t think that the usual excuse that “urban minority kids don’t have enough money” plays well , when you compare international populations. Clearly, a student that is considered poor in USA, will be considered rich in many parts of the world.</p>

<p>@californiaaa - You seem intent on making blanket statements that are speculative based on your limited experience. It took me about 5 minutes of searing to find a school in California for which this rule apparently doesn’t apply - Mira Loma - they can take Honors Chem in 9th and Physics in 10th. I’m sure there are others.</p>

<p>But that does not mean ALL of them own Iphones. And why mention minorities? I’m thinking you need to get off your high horse.</p>

<p>"That is of far greater concern. What fraction of the population really needs strong math skills? Most people don’t need any math beyond simple algebra, perhaps basic geometry, in their lives–if even that much. "</p>

<p>Let’s not make “one math fits all”. Without advanced math, students can’t understand most STEM classes, Computer Science, economics, etc. </p>

<p>On the other hand, not every kid wants to learn Advanced English or History in HS. </p>

<p>Why can’t they make different tracks for kids? Math, science, humanities, arts, athletics, trade … specialize HS, make more magnet schools, it would be easy for everyone. Instead, they design Common Core …</p>