<p>If a student who lives in a predominantly SAT-taking (as opposed to ACT-taking) part of the country scores a 36 on the ACT [with writing], is there any reason to take the SAT as well? Have the CC kids who opted to take only the ACT (along with SAT subject tests) willingly given up their shots at national merit since, as I understand it, a student must take the SAT, as well as the psat, to qualify as a national merit finalist. Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.</p>
<p>A child who needs to take the SAT after a "qualifying" PSAT needs to take the SAT. ???? I don't see the question here. There is no downside. If the SAT sucks, just don't submit it to the colleges. </p>
<p>Let's say kiddo makes a 214 in Texas. Close but no cigar. Historically it has taken a 216 to qualify for NMF from Texas. Then IF none of my kids's schools under consideration OR likely to become under consideration require the SAT , there is absolutely zero reason to take it. The kid is done.</p>
<p>The SAT is more popular in Texas than the ACT. D did better on the ACT and submitted ONLY the ACT to several colleges and universities and did very well in admissions and in scholarship competitions. (You can P.M. me for specifics if need be.)</p>
<p>There is the situation you mention where a kid wants to apply to a school that allows the ACT in place of the SAT but still requires SAT Subjest Tests (like Harvard). In that situation , unless the subject tests were completed and sent prior to the taking of the SAT, the sucky SAT would go also but I just don't see that happening that often. Or maybe ever. </p>
<p>Please do not think your kid has to take the Subject Tests UNLESS required. If the school says they accept the ACT to replace the SAT and Subject Tests, IMO and in my D's experience you can trust them. :)</p>
<p>And NO. I don't think any kid would ever "willingly" give up a shot an NMF after a "qualifying" PSAT score.</p>
<p>The only reason a 36-scoring ACT kid might elect to take the SAT I is IF he or she also has a NMSF-range PSAT score and wants to go on to qualify as a National Merit Finalist. It is true that a student who is a NMSF is unable to advance to NMF standing without submitting the results of the SAT I. Do you know your states cutoff for last year? Your GC should know, or there are old threads on CC on the subject. (National Merit does not publish the statistics, and seems to want to keep a tight lid on them.) NMSF cutoffs are determined on a statewide basis, and within a given state the cutoff may vary by a point or two from year to year (with the trend being upwards in many states). So if your student is more than a few points below last years cutoff, this discussion is probably moot. But if you can determine that your kid is almost definitely going to be a NMSF (the official results wont be announced till next September) then to advance to NMF status he or she will be asked to submit a GC recommendation, an essay, a transcript, and the results of the SAT I which can be taken as late as next December. </p>
<p>As for forfeiting a shot at NMF, I dont think that for admissions purposes colleges really care about NMF status its my understanding that nearly 90%of all the kids who make NMSF become finalists. NMF status is probably a nice feather in the cap for your high school, and it may open doors to more scholarship money than NMSF. I dont have specifics on that. But because so many top students are named finalists, many highly selective colleges dont award any scholarship money of their own through the NMS Program. </p>
<p>As for lingering institutionalized bias against the ACT, that subject has also been discussed quite a bit over the last few years on CC. As of now, it looks like even in predominantly SAT states, the ACT and SAT I are on equal footing. I certainly agree with Curmudgeon that colleges wont wonder about the absence of an SAT I for a student who scores a 36 on the ACT.</p>
<p>Gee, it looks like my proofreader went to bed 15 minutes before I did. :(</p>
<p>Oops - After posting, I found the thread from earlier this year about the ACT v. SAT debate in which there appears to be a consensus, among CC posters at least, that the 2 tests by now are pretty much interchangeable. Curmudgeon: I have followed your D's path (including ACT testing) on CC; you are, afterall, the poster whose every post brings a smile to my face. :) The question you don't see is the one you basically answer later in your post. Some of the schools D is interested in require SAT Subject tests (and she has taken 3 of them). Therefore, if she takes the SAT and doesn't do well, that score will go to the schools along with her subject test scores. In any case, between your post, wjb's, and the long discussion on the earlier thread, I think I've got the information I need in order for us to make an informed decision. Thanks for the input!</p>
<p>Hmmmm. When describing testing requirements, Yale says the following after noting that it accepts ACT with writing in lieu of SAT I and II: "Bear in mind, however, that some Yale departments use the SAT I and/or SAT II subject tests for course placement." I'm hard-pressed to see how the SAT I would be used for course placement?? Somehow this seems to suggest a preference for SAT over ACT [Cur's DD's acceptance notwithstanding. :) ]</p>
<p>If she has her list ready, she could send out SAT IIs now and then take SAT I. If the scores aren't great, no one needs to know. Though someone who scores 36 on ACT isn't likely to bomb on SAT I.</p>
<p>And remember that this year, anyway, for NMF purposes the December 2006 SAT was accepted. <a href="http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf</a></p>
<p>Assuming that date holds, taking the SAT I in December 2007 would give your daughter plenty of time to send the SAT IIs to colleges next fall without including the SAT I.</p>
<p>schoolmarm2,</p>
<p>My D scored a 35 on the ACT first time and a 36 composite on the 2nd go (half 35s and half 36s), and, although she was a NMSF and we are from an SAT school, did NOT take the SAT at all. She was accepted to both Yale and Harvard and is now an ecstatic freshman at Yale. She didn't think NMF (and didn't need the $2500 one time scholarship) was worth it. Interestingly, she did win the Byrd scholarship based on ACT and grades which is a $1500/year renewable award.</p>
<p>Yale uses SAT II (not SAT I) for placement in areas in which AP are not available. E.g., my D did not take AP Chem (took AP Physics and Bio instead), but scored fairly well on the Chem SAT II. Yale placed her into 2nd semester (advanced) in the intro chem series based on that result.</p>
<p>Friend of ours D is also at Yale with ACT only, S is at UChicago with ACT only.</p>
<p>My D thinks SAT IIs are a money-making racket & a huge waste of her time. She refused to consider applying to schools that required them for admission. :) </p>
<p>She is an ACT gal --- she was pleased to see so many colleges accepting ACT, especially those that require SAT IIs with SAT Is.</p>
<p>Wait a minute - to advance from NMSF to NMF standing, the SAT is required? I was completely unaware of this...my counselor told me that my ACT score was fine. I'm a NMSF and I already submitted my application for NMF. Why didn't she tell me to take the SAT?! That's outrageous.</p>
<p>We were told SAT was required to move from NMSf to NMF. I'm not sure if this is true, but it's the best info I have.</p>
<p>Yes, it is true. You must take the SAT by December, or you do not advance to NMF.</p>
<p>sous: Here's the link that confirms what quiltguru just posted. Take a look at No. 7:
<a href="http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf</a></p>
<p>Thanks for the confirmation, but I can't believe this...I asked my counselor if I needed to take the SAT, and I was assured that the ACT would be fine.</p>
<p>Maybe there's some sort of loophole? I mean, it doesn't explicitly say that the ACT isn't accepted...dear lord, I hope everyone's wrong!</p>
<p>They're right, but maybe you can take it in January?</p>
<p>Maybe your GC knows something we don't? Good luck, sous. Let us know what he/she says tomorrow.</p>
<p>Nope, National Merit insists that the last date for the SAT is the December test date. Sous, there is no loophole. We researched this last year before my D elected not to take the SAT at all.</p>
<p>The ACT for confirming the PSAT scores? Isn't the competition called PSAT/NMSQT?</p>
<p>For what it is worth, could it be that one hidden test for finalists is to pass this simple reading comprehension test:</p>
<p>To qualify as a Finalist, a Semifinalist must:</p>
<ol>
<li>continue to meet all program entry requirements
(explained on page 4);</li>
<li>be enrolled full time in the last year of high school
and planning to enroll full time in college the following
fall, or be enrolled in the first year of college if grades 9
through 12 were completed in three years or less;</li>
<li>complete the Merit Scholarship Application with
all information requested, including an essay about
major contributions to the school and community, personal
characteristics, activities, plans, and goals;</li>
<li>have a record of very high academic performance
in all of grades 9 through 12 and in any college course
work taken (the high school must provide a complete
record of courses taken and grades earned by the student,
as well as information about the schools curriculum
and grading system);</li>
<li>be fully endorsed for Finalist standing and recommended
for a Merit Scholarship award by the high
school principal;
6. take the SAT Reasoning Test and earn scores that
confirm the PSAT/NMSQT performance that resulted
in Semifinalist standing; and</li>
<li>provide any other documentation and information
that NMSC requests.<br></li>
</ol>