Another applicant rejected from all Ivies.

Parents Forum
441

<p>One again playing Cassandra to JHS's Candide, . . .
I don't know why QMP's classmates' experiences with college applications were different from the relatively happy outcome described by JHS, in which "In general, the kids agreed with the choices the colleges made."</p>

<p>I did not observe any backbiting among QMP's friends or acquaintances. I saw anxiety, but the students tended to calm each other down. I saw a tad of envy, perhaps, but not much. There was no sense that the admissions process was a zero-sum game, although there may have been more overlapping applications than JHS's children and their classmates had.</p>

<p>But I saw one superbly qualified applicant (not related to us), with all of the "stats" and none of the personal disqualifiers that are often attributed to students with 4.0/2400/2400/all 5's on AP's/post-AP/sports/state-level awards, for whom the outcome was completely unexpected. It happens occasionally. I'm still trying to figure out why.</p>

<p>I also saw very strong, but not as exceptionally well-qualified students, who had outcomes that the other students (and I) would not have predicted. We live in a suburban community, where many of the families have known each other since the children were in elementary school, or even pre-school programs--we know each other pretty well.</p>

<p>A guess? If the outcomes for students in your children's high school have been predictable or at least sensible in the past, they will probably continue to be predictable. If not, they probably won't suddenly become predictable.</p>

442

<p>He obviously is not Ivy League material: he forgot to become a movie star, the son of a prominent politician, or the son of a rich alum. Sheeeesh...what do you expect?</p>

<p>The Ivys: is there anything in America more overrated?</p>

443

<p>^THAT is my favorite post on CC. Ever.</p>

444

<p>But its total BS. Most of my friends at Dartmouth and Columbia weren't sons of Rockstars or famous people. Many were exceptional kids on financial aid. All have become better people with tremendous opportunities at their doorsteps because of their educations.</p>

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<p>Main Entry: sar·casm<br>
Pronunciation: ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
Date: 1550
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b: the use or language of sarcasm</p>

<p>So, this kid wasn't "exceptional" enough, huh?</p>

446

<p>^The kid only applied to HYPS and a special Wharton program. Had he applied to any of the other 4 Ivies or the non Wharton part of Penn he would have probably been accepted. The kid got into Caltech and Rice from Texas. Admissions to schools with less than 10% admit rates are beyond crapshoots and this kid got the crap end of them. In another year it may have been different.</p>

447

<p>Good point, Ven.
This year is supposed to be the peak year for college applications for years to come.</p>

448

<p>It's time to post the FAQ about demographics again (which includes a link to the news article that got this thread started). </p>

<p>DEMOGRAPHICS </p>

<p>Population trends in the United States are not the only issue influencing the competitiveness of college admission here. The children already born show us what the expected number of high school students are in various years, but the number of high school students in the United States, which is expected to begin declining in a few years, isn't the whole story. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/education/09admissions.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/education/09admissions.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp&lt;/a> </p>

<p>First of all, if more students who begin high school go on to college, there will be more applicants to college even with a declining number of high school students. And that is the trend in the United States and worldwide. </p>

<p>Second, colleges in the United States accept applications from all over the world, so it is quite possible that demographic trends in the United States will not be the main influence on how many students apply to college. The cohorts of high-school-age students are still increasing in size in some countries (NOT most of Europe). </p>

<p>Third, even if the number of applicants to colleges overall stays the same, or even declines, the number of applicants to the most competitive colleges may still increase. The trend around the world is a "flight to quality" of students trying to get into the best college they can in increasing numbers, and increasing their consensus about which colleges to put at the top of their application lists. I do not expect college admission to be any easier for my youngest child than for my oldest child, even though she is part of a smaller birth cohort in the United States. </p>

<p>And now I would add to this that at the very most selective colleges that have just announced new financial aid plans, next year's (and the following year's) crush of applicants will be larger than ever. When colleges that are already acknowledged to be great colleges start reducing their net cost down to what the majority of families in the United States can afford, those colleges will receive more applications from all parts of the United States, and very likely from all over the world. </p>

<p>The Austin American-Statesman newspaper in Texas published news about these trends in an article about a particular applicant in April 2008. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/04/19/0419perfect.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/04/19/0419perfect.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>The Economist magazine published a brief article about these trends in April 2008. </p>

<p>University</a> admissions | Accepted | Economist.com</p>

449

<p>Am I the only one who immediately thought of 2-iron’s thread in the College Admissions forum after reading this? This kid should just consider himself lucky that he has the option to choose between 3 top private universities (hell, Caltech is just as good as MIT in my book) and isn’t going to a public state university. Now 2-iron’s case is what I would consider truly unlucky.</p>

450

<p>^not really, monstor. 2-iron admitted he had some responsibility for his work habits, which played a role in admissions results. But the more important fact is that he is ready to rock at UVA, and undoubtedly he will. An awful lot of people would also die for a spot at UVA.</p>

451

<p>First of all, I would kill for a spot at Caltech—it’s better than MIT in my book (Duke and Rice are nothing to snicker at either). This kid, beyond the veneer of “oh my, perfect standardized test scores,” sounds like a host of other HYPMS applicants. If you think about it, he’s not particularly special; he’s obviously academically capable, like thousands of other applicants (top 10 at an excellent public school, >2250 and >33 SAT/ACT scores). He falls into the norm on most other metrics as well: decent ECs (martial arts, piano, and research? sounds like the product of wealthy and connected upper-middle-class parents), no outstanding leadership positions, and a handful of awards are nothing special when you’re competing against 30,000 other top students. Besides that, he’s obviously had a great deal of support (I hesitate to call it help) from his parents, yet he’s still quite average in the context of 99th percentile students (I know it’s an oxymoron, but if you summarize him as “top 10 student with >2250 SAT and outstandingly average ECs,” he has no better chance than most other CC’ers).</p>

452

<p>Okay - just to add to Plan II. If you’re not from Texas, you may not understand how big a deal it is. But at least for students in my school, getting into Plan II or LAH, is just as big a deal as getting into like Dartmouth, Cornell or Brown etc. I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that like only 1/3 of all Plan II applicants are accepted. When you combine that with the fact that 1/2 of UT applicants are accepted, then you see that for all intent and purposes, Plan II’s acceptance rate is like 15-20%. Granted, that’s not the 7.5 or whatever acceptance rate of Harvard, but it’s still pretty dang low.</p>

453

<p>If college applications were like a contest in which you can win and keep an unlimited number of prizes, then this might be a horrible injustice. But since you can pick only ONE college to attend, and he got accepted at several top-notch colleges, it’s not tragic.</p>

<p>It’s sort of like the difference between Hugh Hefner and the rest of us slobs.</p>

454

<p>That’s right, Schmaltz. Since most of us can pick only ONE Playboy playmate to sleep with, it’s no great injustice that the one we got stuck with was Miss June, whose nose was a little big. After all, Miss January rejected 91% of applicants (even some with perfect SAT scores).</p>

<p>ANALOGY COMPLETE</p>

455

<p>I feel absolutely no sympathy for the kid in the article. It’s completely obvious that he pretty much went down the prestige list and didn’t really care where he ended up as long as it was a name-brand school. Adcoms saw through it and bingo. This isn’t rocket science.</p>

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<p>"Ghosh’s father, Nirmalendu Ghosh, said he is also upset about the slew of rejections. He quit his job three years ago so he could help shuttle his son to extracurricular activities, including to work at a UT research lab that he knew would impress college admissions officers. "</p>

<p>There is the problem. Kids (and parents) scheming on ECs in order to impress college admissions officers. Some colleges don’t take a cotton to that kind of conniving. They’d rather have a kid with less “impressive” ECs who did what they did because they wanted to help someone else, not because they wanted to impress a future potential college. </p>

<p>If I were a college admissions officer, I might’ve rejected him too.</p>

457

<p>Just a reminder: this thread is over a year old.</p>

458

<p>Yeah, the issue of college admissions is so 2008.</p>

459

<p>This is why I won’t be applying to HYPSM, right here.</p>

<p>This kid was freaking perfect, and yet he was told no by each and every one of them. His dreams got crushed, and it hit him really hard</p>

<p>I think most kids on CC would learn alot by reading this, and setting REALISTIC college expectations. </p>

<p>As a girl with a 34 ACT, top 1% of her class, interested in sciences, my reach will be Smith, and the rest of my schools will be relative safeties. No dream killing for me come april</p>

460

<p>That attitude is just as wrong as the attitude that you somehow “deserve” admission to a top school.</p>

<p>How about the middle ground? Apply to the best schools you might be admitted to, but don’t expect to be admitted, and have backups that you’d be perfectly happy with, in case they’re the only ones that admit you.</p>

<p>The problem is in pinning all of your hopes and dreams on one college, or even a few colleges, or a particular type of college. That’s why the time-tested strategy of applying to a few reaches, a few matches, and a few safeties works so well. Change the attitude, not the strategy.</p>