<p>The quality of the writing on the application is very, very important. If it's stiff and uninspired then the admissions folks have a good excuse to reject a power scorer. A family that would go to the media over this is too fixated on the scores, and it might have shown in the application.</p>
<p>Wow. (Not about the student, who I really do not want to bash, but about the dad.) Talk about failing to understand the culture... The "perfect" scores and resume are presumed to be the key but are not. "Perfection" is not a guarantee of admission to many places, whether the candidate is perceived as genuine, fake, motivated, staged, unmotivated, robotlike or saint like. Way way back in 1999, the son of a friend got a perfect 1600 on the SAT. This was the first I even heard of such a feat. I knew no one at my "top" college or public high who had claimed such a thing. Anyway, this kid was a fabulous kid (really), who wanted to go to Harvard, in presumably a less competitive year. Harvard said no, but Princeton said yes. Not to cry for him, but like many have said, you can never tell with admissions. And the 1999 grad really was personable, looked fine, smart, EC's with leadership, blah, blah, blah. I can not imagine the job of selecting a very few from among thousands.</p>
<p>I think y'all underestimate Plan II. Among Honors folks nationwide it is the top dog. Numero Uno. I remember one conversation D had with an Honor's College dean at another college where he said as much.</p>
<p>Contrary to what has been mentioned here Plan II is very holistic in admissions. When I looked at it for D (who would not consider it) I noticed a very diverse group of kids with lots going for them.</p>
<p>As long as we are speculating, has anyone considered the possibility of the old saw "familiarity breeds contempt?"</p>
<p>I do want everyone to know that like NSM I noticed the difference in tone between over the top dad and more balanced son. The son couldn't study while dad couldn't sleep.</p>
<p>Oh, I forgot to ask: What is superscoring? Also: What is a single sitting? Does that mean some people get 2400 on one test, and others say they got 2400 by picking and choosing scores from more than one test?</p>
<p>Following up on what the dad appears to have posted on an Internet board, it looks like the father quitting the job for 3 years might have resulted is the need for financial aid -- could have hurt. </p>
<p>And I agree with Consolation that HYPS accept plenty of packaged kids so I dont think they would necessarily hold it against him. Perhaps the kid's packaging lacked finesse.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Er, that was actually my observation, not NSM's.</p>
<p>Regarding rejection from Harvard, DD gave one sentence and two seconds of time about it. It took me at least a week and a couple bottles of hard stuff to get over it. </p>
<p>It the concerned here Asian? I could totally relate.</p>
<p>There is a student in my daughter's class with markedly similar scores, grades and cultural background who achieved a markedly different result! He was accepted to Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford, and probably others. The general sentiment among his peers was, "It's what his parents have been molding him for since 4th grade." However, he was also the president or held a top position/role of several high-profile groups like Boys State, JSA, Debate, etc., and went on to win/participate at the state and national level. We theorized HYPS wants to produce the next Barack Obama not the next Bill Gates, and he applied to right schools with his profile. </p>
<p>(OK, regarding martial arts. My daughter is a second degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. There is A LOT of variation in the martial arts world, some schools are "belt factories" and others require the students to master skills set forth by national and international regulations. Of course colleges don't know the difference. This is just an FYI that SOME black belts do mean something, and reflect a deep and passionate interest in living a life in accordance with some very lofty and noble and humble ideals. I'm now stepping off my TKD soapbox.)</p>
<p>RE: science research -- S was asked a number of times at interviews, both for colleges and for science competitions, a) if DH and I were scientists; b) how he found a mentor; and c) how he came to select a topic. </p>
<p>Answers: a) no; b) he emailed a couple of profs with his resume and a cover letter, interviewed with them and chose one; c) he read a number of journal articles and research papers, discussed those with the prof, then came up with a problem himself. They really wanted to know if parents had pulled strings and how much the mentor had "directed" his work. I got the feeling some level of "connections" would be OK, but that they really want to see that the student was driving the train, not the parents. </p>
<p>The other interesting thing he found in interviews: everyone wanted to talk about S's non-mathy adventures and ECs. They were clearly looking to see if he was doing them because it was expected, or because he truly enjoyed them. It was a sort of "Yeah, yeah, we know about the math/science stuff, but let's see if you're an interesting guy to talk to." This happened with MIT, Mudd, Cornell, Harvard, Reed, UMD, and Chicago.</p>
<p>The Plan II rejection surprises me, too. Caltech seems like a better fit than H anyway. Think it's time for the S to figure out what he wants to do with his life and move on. He has some fine choices. I noticed the difference in reactions, too, Curm. No sleep lost at our house about S's rejection from H. Even the dog was fine with it, and she gets nervous and jittery over everything.</p>
<p>More info from a public Internet board in which the dad posted so much info that it's clear who he is: The dad feels that the S was rejected EA from Stanford because the S had forgotten to included his NHS membership, and forgot to include 400 hours of library and hospital community service (Am I the only one who wonders how someone who has done 400 hours of community service and obviously has been working extremely hard on apps that were probably looked over carefully by a parent could "forget" 400 hours of work?), and his ACT and SAT scores were not high enough. </p>
<p>Consequently, S took ACT and SAT over again in Jan., Feb. of this year. When he applied to Stanford, his SAT and ACT scores were 2340 (11th grade SAT was 760CR/800M/780W) and 35. When he took the SAT this year, it was his fourth time taking it in high school. He did take a prep course -- a $900 prep course in 9th grade, and also studied hard for the test using prep books.</p>
<p>Yes, DAD II, the student is Indian. I'd guess that his dad has a doctorate in science, which is typical of Indians who immigrate here. They and Nigerians have the highest proportion of doctorates among immigrants.</p>
<p>It seems like he got his perfect scores after he was rejected from Stanford, according to this article. He says he wanted to boost his chances at other schools after his Stanford rejection.
Austin</a> student scores makes the perfect score -- twice</p>
<p>From The Plan II website: The University of Texas requires EITHER SAT I (highest cumulative scores from one test--not a mix and match of high scores from different test dates) or ACT test scores.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Indeed. And it's worth remembering that likely many of those sitting in judgment on the admissions committees are likely less academically accomplished than many of those they are forced to turn down. </p>
<p>Many admissions committee staffers did not attend the college where they currently work. Of those that did attend, many will freely admit that they themselves would not be admitted under today's more competitive conditions.</p>
<p>People on admissions committees are not "divinely annointed" or infallible. I really think it's unfair to unsuccessful candidates to speculate on flaws in their applications. I think the title of this thread, characterizing the young man as a "Stepford applicant" is extremely unfair to him. </p>
<p>I do agree with other posters that his father has done some disservices to his son, but I also think it's very much out of line and a privacy violation to link an article about a named person to a cc post suspected of being his father's post.</p>
<p>"There is a student in my daughter's class with markedly similar scores, grades and cultural background who achieved a markedly different result! He was accepted to Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford, and probably others. The general sentiment among his peers was, "It's what his parents have been molding him for since 4th grade." However, he was also the president or held a top position/role of several high-profile groups like Boys State, JSA, Debate, etc., and went on to win/participate at the state and national level. "</p>
<p>Sounds like his peers are underestimating him. No one's parents can mold them into top positions at Boys State. That depends on an extraordinary amount of social intelligence, leadership ability and true passion for politics.</p>
<p>I also don't think that parents can mold someone into being an extraordinary debater who could do so well at the state level. One could help a smart person be an above average debater, but not an exceptional one. Too many factors that aren't coachable would go into becoming extraordinary at that.</p>
<p>It's far easier to mold a smart person into getting 800s on the SAT or being able to get As in high school math classes.</p>
<p>NHS is meaningless at this level of applications. S never bothered to apply because he said he'd never put it on his resume. There were several things he didn't include on it because while they looked good, they didn't mean much to him. </p>
<p>A 2340 and a 35 didn't keep him out of Stanford. Oy. Taking the SAT after applications were submitted -- now that would get my attention as an admissions rep, esp. with scores like that already on the record.</p>
<p><wisteria, i'm="" sorry.="" you="" are="" correct="" .="" it="" was="" your="" post="" i="" referring="" to="" in="" mine.="" plead="" lack="" of="" sleep.=""></wisteria,></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My LOL of the day. Yes, it's important that a young person apply knowing that the dog and dad and everyone will have a reaction, but the young person should get to decide where to apply, and which offer to accept if more than one is received.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A 2340 and a 35 didn't keep him out of Stanford. Oy. Taking the SAT after applications were submitted -- now that would get my attention as an admissions rep, esp. with scores like that already on the record.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's clear to me that he misjudged the competition this year. He should have retaken both tests again to prove he could do it twice in a row. Maybe he could take them now?</p>
<p>anothermom2, superscoring refers to combining the subscores from two or more sittings in order to assemble the highest composite score. Some universities (mostly private, I think) do this for admissions purposes with the SAT I, far fewer with the ACT. </p>
<p>I have never seen a newspaper article, however, about a student with perfect scores unless the score was obtained at a single sitting. I doubt that many reporters even know what 'superscoring' means.</p>
<p>Without going into detail about specific kids, there is absolutely no question in my experience that highly packaged students with extraordinarily over-involved parents do indeed get accepted to HYP. Why were they accepted, even with mom and dad's and high-priced consultant's fingerprints all over the applications? Let's just say the ability to apply binding ED and/or not asking for financial aid may play a role in giving adcoms a reason to overlook the packaging....</p>
<p>The joke at our house is that the dog was S's "lab supervisor" last summer when he was doing his research (she slept next to him while he worked), and so she gets a percentage of any scholarships he earns. This goes to the Cookie Fund, though she is trying to get us to upgrade to better stuff. I draw the line at cookies from the dog bakery -- just can't go there! :)</p>