<p>Orgy of bashing? A bit of hyperbole? </p>
<p>Note that without the questioning interlude courtesy of Cbreeze, the reference to Dartmouth would have been minimal. For the record, my comments were directed at the actions of Kim as they exemplify many of the admins who prefer to ignore the problems. </p>
<p>I also noted that Kim was a rather unsavory departure from the efforts of James Wright. And why I called him a spineless shell. Ultimately, fraternities will be reigned in at Dartmouth. </p>
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Would you apply this to students who are of legal age and aren’t providing it to students who aren’t? I’m over 21, and I don’t really like parties. I do like to relax with TV or a book and a drink, and I am partial to rum and whiskey. Am I to be banned from possessing a bottle of Crown Royal because the Greek organizations I don’t belong to are acting like idiots?</p>
<p>@Spaceship, as you describe it, that’s fine. I also think adult faculty and staff can drink what they like. I think you knew what I meant; IANAL, and that is sometimes obvious. </p>
<p>I’m sorry. I interpreted “no place on a college campus or in places frequented by UGs” to possibly apply to older UGs like myself.</p>
<p>I personally think that the Greek organizations have a pretty big habit of getting out of line, but I rarely see vice bans that actually work. I don’t know what the situation is, but I don’t think the university could effectively keep hard liquor out of their parties if it was trying.</p>
<p>@Spaceship, nah, just sloppy wording on my part.</p>
<p>My alma mater (MIT) has had a bunch of frats go “dry.” I have no idea if this is curbing drinking.</p>
<p>Xiggi - in defense of Dr. Kim, wasn’t his Board of Trustees very difficult to work with? I remember reading about the amount of alumni influence in how things were run at the school and an effort to lessen that power. (My daughter was also turned off by Dartmouth’s reputation as she looked at schools.)</p>
<p>This is an interesting article:</p>
<p><a href=“Freshman deaths show risks of transitioning to college life”>https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/09/19/freshman-deaths-show-risks-transitioning-college-life</a></p>
<p>I noticed that Texas Tech lost SIX kids to auto accidents at the beginning of the year. That’s appalling. The one they link to in the article was a DUI.</p>
<p>Dartmouth has forbidden first year students to enter fraternity parties until after Homecoming weekend in October for the last couple of years, in an effort to cut down on first year drinking and risky behavior. Nevertheless, 12 first years were transported to the hospital in those six weeks. (I don’t know how drunk they were. It is my impression that people are much quicker to call for help nowadays.) Reportedly, kids who drink in dorms are more likely to drink hard liquor. Obviously someone is buying it for them. Jim Kim started a multi-school organization aimed at decreasing student drinking. I heard him speak very openly about his concern, as a public health professional. He said that every college president’s biggest fear was a death. </p>
<p>Sadly, I agree with xiggi on this. Prez Kim copped out by claiming its all about education, as in health education, his speciality. (If 20+ years of DARE education hasn’t worked…) Then he asks for a group hug and a promise from the Greeks to ‘not do it again’. Kumbaya all-around.</p>
<p>Obviously, it didn’t work (and never will).</p>
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<p>Likely additional perps. S&S will send to Dick’s House first, if they can ‘sleep it off’. DHMC is the last resort, or for those who Security is concerned about.</p>
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<p>Of course he does speeches. What college official is not openly concerned? (Puntative actions would speak a whole lot more.)</p>
<p>Perhaps they need more double-secret probations, like the Betas went through:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ivygateblog.com/2008/01/rowdy-dartmouth-frat-returns-forcing-sororitys-eviction-animal-house-not-even-cited-once-in-this-post/”>http://www.ivygateblog.com/2008/01/rowdy-dartmouth-frat-returns-forcing-sororitys-eviction-animal-house-not-even-cited-once-in-this-post/</a></p>
<p>I’m not on board with banning the fraternities across the board. As someone has already pointed out, it’s not just fraternities that get into trouble with drinking and hazing - lots of college organizations do, including sports teams, marching bands, and other clubs. In addition, I’ve worked with fraternity students in my res life role and most of them are responsible, intelligent young men. Sometimes their parties get out of control mainly because of other students who they invited (or who just showed up), and sometimes, students pass out in connection with the party but not due to direct action on the fraternity’s part.</p>
<p>I do agree with the reform effort, though, to require campus-recognized fraternities to register their parties and have substance-free events. My campus had a system like this - although they weren’t substance-free, but fraternities were only allowed to have beer or wine; they were only allowed to have a certain number of units (296 = 4 x 74, with 74 being the maximum capacity of all of the fraternity houses on campus) and they needed to show us that they had a system by which to identify partygoers under 21 so that they would not be served alcohol. They also knew that violations could result in getting suspended or otherwise disciplined. Parties that were going to invite non-Greek members needed to be registered, and campus police and res life were notified ahead of time. That’s how I got involved - I worked in res life and if we were on duty, we were notified of any registered fraternity life parties (sororities didn’t have parties in their houses).</p>
<p>Personally I think at parties that are going to be at least 75% under-21, there’s really no need for alcohol and that the parties should be substance-free - but if they do, they need to be closely monitored with oversight from res life and campus police services.</p>
<p>I think that pledging (or the new member period, as the NPC sororities refer to it) can be fun and safe if done right. The activities may bond the new sisters and brothers together. But they should be about education and bonding, not about “tearing you down to build you back up” or physical conditioning or any of that nonsense.</p>
<p>@consolidation “I noticed that Texas Tech lost SIX kids to auto accidents at the beginning of the year. That’s appalling. The one they link to in the article was a DUI.”</p>
<p>It is certainly true that much of the root problem is alcohol. Alcohol is involved in a significant percentage of vehicle accidents, suicides, fraternity party incidents, student rapes, and, obviously alcohol poisoning deaths. </p>
<p>@consolidation “This is an interesting article:”</p>
<p>To me it is disturbing that the police had already visited the party because of the noise level, but apparently did not investigate the underage drinking until they returned because there was a dead body.</p>
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<p>Here is an example at CSU Chico:
<a href=“http://www.csuchico.edu/fsa/Greek%20Organization%20Requirements/index.shtml”>http://www.csuchico.edu/fsa/Greek%20Organization%20Requirements/index.shtml</a></p>
<p>Note that houses must be dry. If wet events outside the houses are sponsored, alcohol can only be served by a liquor-licensed insured third party vendor.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it took an alcohol-related death in 2012 to cause the campus to institute these rules.</p>
<p>I noticed that Texas Tech lost SIX kids to auto accidents at the beginning of the year. That’s appalling. The one they link to in the article was a DUI.>></p>
<p>Two were siblings killed with their father in an accident in AZ. I believe two others were another set of siblings killed when the driver overcorrected and alcohol was determined to not be a factor. </p>
<p>There were three other deaths and I think at least one of those involved alcohol. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dailytoreador.com/news/tech-mourns-seven-dead-former-students/article_1b1ac472-3960-11e4-8084-0017a43b2370.html”>http://www.dailytoreador.com/news/tech-mourns-seven-dead-former-students/article_1b1ac472-3960-11e4-8084-0017a43b2370.html</a></p>
<p>Thanks for the info, @cap. </p>
<p>As I have said many times, I, for one, would be perfectly happy if Dartmouth did away with Greek organizations of all kinds and reorganized its living quarters into a house system. In any case, I am happy to see that there seems to be real, student-driven examination and reform under way. </p>
<p>I also think that the situation at campuses nationwide would be drastically improved by lowering the legal drinking age to 18, and legalizing marijuana.</p>
<p>A “handle” of 80 proof vodka has 59 fluid ounces and 23.6 ounces of pure alcohol. $10-15. A case of Budweiser has 288 fluid ounces and 14.4 ounces of pure alcohol. $15-20. It is much much harder for something like this to happen with beer. </p>
<p>An 18-19 year old legal drinking age for beer or near beer makes a lot of sense. For spirits, keep the age at 21 or limit it to licensed bars. Better to have the kids learn to drink out in the open with less powerful stuff. </p>
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<p>Can’t speak to the former, but mini had previously posted that teen drunk driving accidents/deaths declined with the alcohol age was increased to 21, particularly in high school.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.jsad.com/jsad/downloadarticle/Case_Closed_Research_Evidence_on_the_Positive_Public_Health_Impact_of_the_/5259.pdf”>http://www.jsad.com/jsad/downloadarticle/Case_Closed_Research_Evidence_on_the_Positive_Public_Health_Impact_of_the_/5259.pdf</a></p>
<p>“Can’t speak to the former, but mini had previously posted that teen drunk driving accidents/deaths declined with the alcohol age was increased to 21, particularly in high school.”</p>
<p>Drunk driving deaths would decline even further if we raised the legal drinking age to 30 or brought back Prohibition.</p>
<p>I know mini posted that, but I think that the current situation at residential colleges is simply impossible for administrators to adjudicate.</p>
<p>It’s possible that the higher drinking age has beneficial effects across society as a whole, while still having negative effects on college campuses. I also like the idea of a lower drinking age for beer and wine. I believe some states used to have such laws (I seem to remember that you could buy “3.2” beer at a younger age.)</p>
<p>^^and a DUI death of a college student is not a negative impact on the campus? </p>
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<p>That’s a fair point, but plenty of residential college administrators at least accept responsibility for trying (unlike the former Presidents of Dartmouth and Middlebury). Just because its hard doesn’t mean that you should’t at least try.</p>
<p>But perhaps I come from a different background. Like ~20 other states, California never lowered the drinking age from 21 in the '70’s when many other states did. Clearly, administrators of colleges in those ~20 states were able to “adjudicate” drunken parties since that was part of their job. And that requires a spine. For example, once the Betas were “permanently” banned from Dartmouth, it could have been forever…</p>
<p>btw: several states that lowered the drinking age to 18 promptly raised it (to 19/20), even before the feds put pressure to run it back to 21. Not being a resident of those states, I would guess that the political discussion mostly focused on high schools, since many seniors are 18…</p>