<p>We attended H’s 40th college reunion last month. There were many classmates who have retired and they were lawyers, finance professionals, business owners, teachers. Interestingly, no one who became a doctor, has retired.</p>
<p>Her fault? Yes, she took the loans.</p>
<p>But, I also think that it’s too easy for young people (18, not 41) think a few hundred thousand is “nothing” compared to what they’ll make in a decade. </p>
<p>Newsflash, your loans could easily be multiple times your “amazing” annual salary. You won’t be making a fraction of what you think you’ll make. The average entry level salary for all majors/college grades is what, under $40,000? Yeah, try paying off $200,000+ in student loans on that. It ain’t gonna happen. Interest balloons student loans. Should private loans be capped? Possibly, but middle class students with little to no aid often have no other option than private loans (unless they go to another school, or don’t go at all).</p>
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<p>I agree with this. I’ve seen a couple posts by kids who expect to make $100k right out of college. (And they are NOT in a “professional” job track like doctor, lawyer, etc.) Or that kid who “knew” he would find money to go to NYU “somehow” (after they gave him crappy FA) because “he had an intuition about it.” God bless kids and all that, but they are so dumb sometimes. </p>
<p>Most people aren’t too surprised when kids make a couple mistakes during college–drinking too much, partying all night, sleeping through a midterm. Unfortunately if one of their mistakes is “taking out way too much in loans because they are far too optimistic”, they’ll pay for that mistake for years to come.</p>
<p>I have limited sympathy for this woman. Much of the growth has to be from missed or late payments. We had the equivalent of loans like this 25 years ago, and two small children. We lived ridicuously frugally, and never missed a payment (and I only worked very, very part time.) We had good enough credit to be able to buy a (very small) house while still paying off the loans. And, H did go into a “helping” speciality–pediatrics in an inner city clinic.</p>
<p>I think what made it work for us is we had no expectation nor yearning for a typical ‘doctor’ life, so we were fine with the modest lifestyle we could afford.</p>
<p>I still think it’s possible to get through med school and pay off the loans, no matter what your speciality, if you don’t have unrealistic expectations, and do have financial sense.</p>
<p>I expect it will be more difficult going forward. Its not going to be the gravy train it was 20 or more years ago.</p>
<p>I would also add that school costs have risen far faster than most people’s salaries including doctors.</p>
<p>All the more reason not to go into debt for undergrad if you are thinking of med school.</p>
<p>^^^^ Umm no?</p>
<p>Most prestigious undergrad = more prestigious med school = higher paid specialty.</p>
<p>I GUARANTEE you that no neurosurgeron or oncologist has ever had problems like this woman.</p>
<p>Maybe she wanted to do family med all along…</p>
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<p>Dude, it was a figure of speech. And I don’t think that anyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. Some people aren’t cut out for those careers.</p>
<p>Jasoninivy – your three parameters do not go hand in hand. After 30 years in an academic teaching hospital, I can tell you there are plenty of MD’s going into lucrative subspecialties who did not go to “prestigious” UG or med school – just a career path that they are choosing.</p>
<p>"^^^^ Umm no?</p>
<p>Most prestigious undergrad = more prestigious med school = higher paid specialty.</p>
<p>I GUARANTEE you that no neurosurgeron or oncologist has ever had problems like this woman."</p>
<p>For an 18 year old, you shouldn’t be so sure of things you know nothing about.</p>
<p>Your ability to get into a prestigious specialty has more to do with med school grades, recommendations, and Step scores than the school you went to. That is what every medical student/MD has told me. The location of the residency site will be the biggest effect of what schools the residents come from.</p>
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<p>I’m inclined to think this is just sanctimonious claptrap, but even assuming you really do read the fine print, what do you take it to mean when you agree to pay a “reasonable amount” for collection fees if you default, which can include “reasonable attorney’s fees”? That’s typical language for a promissory note. Should she have known that it would mean over $50,000? I’m sure that the “personal responsibility” crowd here could somehow deduce that, but what hope do we mere mortals have?</p>
<p>Do you know that the lenders also sometimes have the ability to declare you in default, and demand the entire amount owed, if you miss a payment by a single day? Or if, in their judgement, there’s been a “significant lessening” of your ability to pay? Should students simply never take out student loans, since the lenders generally have such broad ability to declare a default and accelerate payment?</p>
<p>@zaprowsdower</p>
<p>I think undergraduate students should never graduate with more than $10,000 in debt. If the median starting salary for Bachelor’s degree-holders is $40,000 then $10k is 25% of their starting salary; depending on tax rates, cost of living, salary raises (or not), and other expenses those $10k would take about 2 years to be fully paid off, and we are only talking about $10k in debt.</p>
<p>Individuals pursuing advanced degrees should never graduate with more than $30,000 in debt, in my opinion. If people are going to take out loans to finance their education then they ought to treat the situation more like a business investment and less like a personal investment. If the return on investment is less than the investment itself then that education, while useful, worthless.</p>
<p>I think it would be difficult to graduate from med school with less than $30k debt, unless you were nontraditional and had been working/saving for some time, and got into a very cheap state school. Above tuition, one has to consider cost of living while in school. Maybe I’m wrong, though…</p>
<p>I have a friend that is in med school - she was accepted to a very inexpensive state school and a private school that is probably a little better regarded than the state school. She ended up picking the private school. She could have paid four years of tuition at the state school for less than she’s paying for one at the private school. I don’t really get it, but that was her decision to make.</p>
<p>I imagine it would be nearly impossible to graduate from medical school with less than $30k in debt. Here’s information on physicians and surgeons from the BLS:</p>
<p>Earnings of physicians and surgeons are among the highest of any occupation. According to the Medical Group Management Association’s Physician Compensation and Production Survey, median total compensation for physicians varied by their type of practice. In 2008, physicians practicing primary care had total median annual compensation of $186,044, and physicians practicing in medical specialties earned total median annual compensation of $339,738.</p>
<p>[Physicians</a> and Surgeons](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm]Physicians”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm)</p>
<p>Prospective medical school students should read that page before taking out loans for medical school.</p>
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<p>So are you suggesting that nearly nobody should go to med school? I’m not sure where you came up with the $30K limit, which seems kind of arbitrary, especially given the dramatically different returns on investment for different degrees.</p>
<p>^I doubt that anyone who makes a claim “It is stupid for anyone to borrow more than ____ in loans for ____ (undergrad, med school, whatever)” actually did any calculation to come up with that. They’re all arbitrary numbers. Some are less absurd than others but it’s all arbitrary.</p>
<p>Have to agree with DOCT</p>