<p>Umcp, that’s merely a function of where you live and your parents’ social milieu. I assure you that here in the Chicago area, both NU and Vanderbilt are viewed very favorably and are extremely well known. The average person here most certainly has heard of both.</p>
<p>This is the common mistake on CC – that “people I know in my neck of the woods” = “what people everywhere think.” no offense to UMCP, but out here no one would have any clue that UMCP is, well, anything than “every state has got a state u so I guess that’s Maryland’s” and Maryland isn’t even a state that is on anyone’s radar screen. It’s all regional. Always.</p>
<p>I know some very wealthy businessmen who hire a lot of people who think that Texas A&M is the best school God ever put on earth and who would hire a fellow Aggie in preference to anyone else. Same with UT. Same with SMU. Same with TCU.</p>
<p>Exactly, missypie. You see the same thing with the UC’s – obviously very well respected and valued in California, even if people outside California haven’t heard of half of them. You see the same thing in Texas with the examples you cite. You see the same thing in the midwest with the Big Ten state schools.</p>
<p>And in about a dozen states in the midwest (including some with real cities! and all!) the only state school journalism program that would be seen as competing with Northwestern would be Mizzou, not Maryland – and the thought of turning down Northwestern for an unheard-of state school wouldn’t make any sense unless it was solely a financial issue. I’m not insulting UMCP because I’m sure it’s a fine school – but it’s pretty much a cipher out here. The location and quality of Maryland is about as foreign to most midwesterners as the location and quality of Iowa is to most northeasterners. So to think that parents who are impressed by UMCP and clueless about Northwestern represent “how parents think” – no. Just certain parents.</p>
<p>LOL, H interviews & hires people, if he hasn’t heard of a school, he asks me!
So embarassing, he asked me one day if I had heard of “Harvey Mudd”?
“OMG, hire him!” I said.<br>
“He is a she & you are stereotyping!” was his reply. :eek:</p>
<p>“Even drab colleges with average reputations can have fantastic programs for which they are known, fabulous professors, wonderful, stimulating classes.”</p>
<p>“A terrible reason to attend a particular college and unfortunately an attitude that is not going to carry you far in life.”</p>
<p>Some of you are missing the crux of my original post. I don’t think there is anything in my original post which even hints that you can’t get a great education at the drabbest no-name college. And nobody is saying everybody should heavily base his/her college decision on the campus landscaping.</p>
<p>My main point was that I had almost zero motivation to study in high school, and somehow managed to transfer to a university that was over my head at first. And what played a big part in getting me to study and persevere (and I’ve never really heard anybody else say this, that’s why I asked if anybody else had a similar experience) was that the university was simply a place I respected enough to want to have an “official” connection to (i.e., become an alumnus). Some people might be so confident in themselves that they don’t need an official relationship with a good college to motivate them. Fine. Some people might not be motivated by wanting to form an official relationship with a physically beautiful place. Fine. All I’m saying is that FOR ME the college’s name, reputation, and physical appearance were enough to keep me from throwing in the towel. I wasn’t obsessed with my studies, so learning for the pure fun of it wasn’t motivating me. I had no obsession with a certain career to keep my eye on the prize. But I DID want the satisfaction of getting a degree from a place that was so interesting, beautiful, and beyond what my high school performance indicated I was capable of.</p>
<p>By the way, I grew up mostly in the Detroit area, a place which I love and have returned to, but there aren’t many beautiful colleges around here. Maybe that made me particularly ripe for being bowled over by my alma mater’s campus.</p>
<p>I live in Maryland and my son goes to Vanderbilt and I have NEVER spoken to anyone that never heard of it. As a matter of fact, most people are quite impressed. I’m not comparing it to HYP - but most (educated adults) and certainly any employer would know the names of all top universities and LACs.</p>
<p>“The location and quality of Maryland is about as foreign to most midwesterners as the location and quality of Iowa is to most northeasterners.”</p>
<p>Iowa, or, Illinois… </p>
<p>“So to think that parents who are impressed by UMCP and clueless about Northwestern represent “how parents think” – no.”</p>
<p>What I’m saying is that a person who has a conception of certain colleges as vastly more academic and intellectual than others, outside of some super well-knowns like Harvard, Yale, etc…I think that is actually MUCH more rare than people on CC realize. Vanderbilt may be generally thought of as a good school, but it’s not like the interviewer is always or even generally going to be particularly impressed, since the interviewer is far more likely to have graduated from a state flagship than a prestigious private himself/herself.</p>
<p>Some schools, because of their deep history/rooting in popular culture, are always going to make people think “Oh gosh, you must be smart to go there!!” But outside of those very select few schools, the majority of people are going to say, so what? I’m smart and I didn’t go there, so I don’t really think it’s that hot, sorry.</p>
<p>Thanks, this makes it much clearer. I know a high school kid or two who might indeed be motivated by similar factors. It’s indeed a useful point.</p>
<p>^That’s exactly what I was thinking you were thinking, and it’s exactly how a lot of high schoolers think, and I maintain that I don’t think it ultimately gets you very far in life. The times when you want to throw in the towel the most aren’t when you’re in a beautiful, interesting, prestigious place. You don’t like learning, you don’t have a goal. You’re motivated by the superficial. That’s what people typically call “spoiled,” the kind of behavior that’s going to kick you in the butt when your biggest responsibility isn’t the next physics test, when you realize real life is gritty, messy, and hard. Is that really something you want to advocate future high schoolers be? Spoiled? Is a child’s quest to attend “the best school he/she got into” despite any real goals or love of learning really something parents should spend money supporting?</p>
<p>I’m not attackin you OP, fyi. It’s just an interesting point of discussion so apologies if it feels heated.</p>
<p>NO. You keep assuming that because <em>your</em> parents and the people around you might not have known of a Vanderbilt, that therefore nobody in any part of the country really does. Vanderbilt most certainly would be among the list of “wow, that’s a really good school” for most anybody here in the midwest and parts of the south. Meanwhile, your parents were impressed by UMCP – and for most of the midwest, at least, UMCP would mean absolutely nothing other than “I guess it’s the state school of Maryland, wherever the heck Maryland is” - and when it comes to state schools, they’d be favorably impressed by Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, perhaps Indiana, but certainly not Maryland (where the heck is Maryland again?). IT’S ALL REGIONAL.</p>
<p>Well, that’s the very point. Clueless northeasterners who couldn’t find Iowa vs Illinois on a map, or who think that the midwest is just hog farms and haven’t a clue whatsoever about the big cities to be found there, are just as ignorant as the clueless midwesterners who can’t understand why anyone would ever go east for school.</p>
<p>D’s ED school is a pretty-darn-prestigious LAC on the east coast (as it happens). Many people around here don’t know it, or only know of it because of one or two very notable alums, or they confuse it with another school that has a similar sounding name. But who particularly cares? The people who matter, know the difference.</p>
<p>^First of all, I was hyperbolizing. Certianly my parents had HEARD of Northwestern. They simply were not IMPRESSED by it. They’re not OVERLY impressed by Maryland either, fyi, though they felt the benefit:cost ratio was much higher. And, I don’t discount that how impressed one is by certain schools is heavily regional. In fact, that plays into my point - that some schools have this mythos about them that is going to impress anyone you run into, but most do not.</p>
<p>The majority of people are not IMPRESSED by what school you attend unless that school is over-the-top impressive (i.e. Top 5, say), and they’re not just “don’t have a clue nobodies”. Notions of certain schools as being “good” certainly exist, and they transcend state lines/etc. to some degree. But while someone is going to give you the “Oh, how good for your son, he attends Vanderbilt, nice for you because I have this notion of it being good” schpeel, are they honestly thinking your son is smarter than their kid, who goes to State U? Or are they thinking you’re a little crazy for spending 50K a year on it? If it was an interviewer, are they honestly going to think Northwestern is really /that/ good, having most likely not attended the school themselves? Or are they thinking, I/my kid went to a university that is considered good in my area/in my region, and I/they liked it and I’m successful and smart, so I’m really not batting an eyelash over the fact you went to Georgetown or whatever? I don’t think it’s just clueless idiots that subscribe to latter ways of thinking. I think some very important people very high up in prestigious firms/companies/etc. also have these attitudes…perhaps rightfully so.</p>
<p>It’s a polite niceity for people to say “good for you” when they hear what college you went to, but I have this sneakin suspicion that deep down they don’t care nearly as much as people on CC do or think others do. This includes that people that matter :p. Now, I think that if an interviewer sees Harvard or Yale on an app they’re going to be a bit more rattled…but schools like Vandy/etc. don’t have this ivory tower/subconscious aura of cultural greatness surrounding them and it’s much easier for the person to fall back on the “I didn’t go there and I’m still smart, so it can’t be that great” logic.</p>
<p>And therein lies my point that outside of CC, Vandy isn’t as much of “prestigious” thing as people think. “Prestige” is something different for most people than what college you got into or what college you could afford.</p>
<p>Plenty of hard-working, responsible adults take great pleasure in the small things in life that make the daily grind more palatable. It could be buying a good cup of coffee every morning, having an office with windows, chatting with the buddies at lunch, watching the cute chipmunk that lives under the back porch, putting fresh flowers on the table, Monday night football, etc. None of these things are the most important things in life, but can bring happiness and lift one’s mood.</p>
<p>Going to a school that is attractive and commands respect is just such a thing that can take the edge off for someone who isn’t an intellectual.</p>
<p>"You’re motivated by the superficial. That’s what people typically call “spoiled,” </p>
<p>UMCP, you make lots of assumptions. After graduating, I went to a couple Big 10 grad schools, and then to the US Navy as an officer. Even though I have dyslexia and no aptitude for foreign languages, I gutted my way through the 11-month Russian language course at the Defense Language Institute. Then graduated with honors from the Navy’s notorious Survival, Evasion, Resistance [to interrogation], and Escape school, where a former Vietnam POW said I did things under great pressure they’d never seen before. Then on to flying a thousand hours on reconnaissance flights of up to 15 hours each. Then on to the University of Toronto for an M.A. in philosophy. If that’s your idea of taking the easy, spoiled route, so be it. You are such a tough guy at your keyboard.</p>
<p>Schmaltz, you say things so well…and I so agree.
You’re talking (I think) about something nearly ineffable that’s so important, and way beyond prestige. We count it here as “vibe”-- but, it’s inspiration, in various forms, that helps you go beyond what you’ve known before. It’s not just reaching your dream, but expanding what you dream of, and it’s what I hope my D will get from college beyond anything else. </p>
<p>Oh, and you should write a novel about your SERE school training! (Except I probably wouldn’t have the guts to read it!)</p>
<p>Funny story. My inlaws were talking about my niece’s college choices…They said she had it narrowed down to Dordt and Northwestern and chose Dordt, even though she had a better scholarship to Northwestern. She got a scholarship to Northwestern and chose Dordt instead!!! Turns out they were talking about Northwestern College, a conservative Christian school in Minnesota.</p>
<p>I have to agree with PizzaGirl re: regional attitudes. But don’t forget the ESPN effect, too.</p>
<p>Years ago, only some people out here in NY knew of Northwestern as a good journalism school. There were more aware of Northeastern (a very different school). Not to bash Northeastern grads, but I did not like it when people thought I was going to THAT NU – in Boston – as opposed to the NU in Chicago. BIG DIFFERENCE.</p>
<p>Now, there is Northwestern purple throughout the high school because of the women’s lacrosse championships. That and a few bowl games opened their eyes to hey, it’s a great academic school, too.</p>
<p>Here, in a district where so many kids go to SUNY schools, there is still an awareness of the other state U’s on the East Coast. People know about UMCP and where it stands compared to other Eastern state u’s. UNC has cache here, as does Michigan. But, only if they are obsessed with researching colleges would they have any inkling how hard it is to get into Wisconsin these days from OOS or what schools like IU or U of I have to offer. For the most part, people just don’t send their kids that far away so it has no impact.</p>
<p>I do believe that, in the metropolitan centers, employers recognize schools beyond the Ivies - the Northwesterns, the Vanderbilts, the Emorys (and the equivalents on the west coast, which I admit, I am not familiar with), etc. And, they also know what schools are top in their field, even if it’s not considered a “top school” with its own thread on CC (for example, Lehigh for engineering).</p>
<p>I can imagine this is difficult for a student who has his/her sights set on going to another part of the country and but has parents who are focused only on the local schools (perhaps because of their own experiences). This has to be tough to reconcile.</p>
</p>