<p>I know everyone gets sick of the 'what are the possiblities...' threads, but I do think this question could make for an interesting discussion.</p>
<p>Say someone (i.e. me) had a great GPA and a decent but not special LSAT. Those numbers being a 4.13 LSDAS GPA and a 159 LSAT score. How would the lopsided set work in the admissions process? </p>
<p>For example, taking a look at the latest U.S. News, here are a few numbers:</p>
<p>Washington University, St. Louis: LSAT range 163-167. GPA range 3.3-3.7
Boston College: LSAT range 162-165. GPA range 3.4-3.8</p>
<p>Just a few examples, but you get the point. My LSAT score is a few points below the 25th percentile for these schools, but my GPA is well above the 75th percentile.</p>
<p>Here's the question:</p>
<p>Is it even worth applying to these schools? And by 'worth' I'm wondering if there's actually a decent shot at getting in, not just a prayer.</p>
<p>To save people some time. I already understand that most schools balance the two numbers with certain formulas, some utilizing the LSDAS provided index numbers. What I'm wondering, though, is if having such a good GPA can elevate a candidate 'above the numbers' in a way that they would look past the good but not great LSAT. </p>
<p>Any help would be appreciated. I understand a lot of it is speculation, but it seems like an intersting topic</p>
<p>I think that it is more likely to happen the other way where a good LSAT score will help counterbalance a weak (or less than stellar GPA).</p>
<p>There are so many things to consider:</p>
<p>Is your LSAT score above or below the median LSAT score for your school (you can find this out from your pre-law advisor or career services office)?</p>
<p>What is the median GPA of graduating students at your school?</p>
<p>Has any one from your school been accepted to the schools that you mention with similar #s?</p>
<p>DO you have a history of having lopsided #s (low SAT scores while having a high GPA)? You may have to explain to the school that standardized test really don't do a good job in reflecting your ability.</p>
<p>IS your 4.13 in an easy major that does not have many courses that really provide and depth, breadth or use of analytical skills?</p>
<p>Are you really so adverse to a retake? I am quite sure with a little more studying you could probably gain 2 to 3 points which would make all of the difference.</p>
<p>hope that this gives you a jumping of point or some food for thought.</p>
<p>Not really an answer but, why don't you retake the LSAT? From your 4.13 I'd assume you have very good study habits, so why don't you dedicate a good portion of your time to reading the Powerscore bibles, taking all the old LSAT's you can, and taking a class if you need to. If that somehow sets off your plans and you have to take a year off after graduation, all the better, use the time to beef up your application with solid EC's and studying for the LSAT. Washington U and BC would both be a stretch with that LSAT, but if you really worked on improving your score you could get in there easily, and have an outside shot at the lower T14's, Berkeley in particular is known for taking students with high GPA's and low LSAT's (just not that low).</p>
<p>It's notoriously difficult to predict admissions for "splitters," and you have an exceptionally large LSAT/GPA split. Your results could be all over the map, getting rejected by lower-ranked schools but accepted by some higher-ranked ones, maybe depending how their applicant pool turns out that year. I would second the recommendation that you take the LSAT again; there's really no reason not to, when an increase of a couple points could dramatically affect your chances.</p>
<p>I concur in the advice to retake the LSAT. </p>
<p>There used to be a poster here who had a 4.0 in criminal justice from St. John's U in NYC. (My understanding is that St. J's doesn't give A pluses, so he had the highest possible gpa.) He also had a 159 LSAT. His admissions decisions were not good. In his case, the LSAT score predicted admissions chances much better than his 4.0. </p>
<p>You've got an advantage at some of the Eastern schools because you add geographic diversity. I hope you also have a tougher major.BTW, how rare are A pluses at your school? Are you lthe valedictorian of a class of 5,000+? That could help a little bit. </p>
<p>While I'm not optimistic about your chances if you have no work experience and lack other WOW soft factors, it's certainly worth a shot, even if you don't retake the LSAT. I would urge you to really focus on your personal statement and get the best possible recs you can get.</p>
<p>Deciding whether or not to retake comes down to, basically, what kind of improvement can he expect? In figuring that out, several pieces of information are important -- SAT score and practice LSAT track record are the big two, but major and undergraduate school might be useful, too. (Helps us understand his GPA better.)</p>
<p>I'm still not buying into your SAT/LSAT relationship, other than RC, the LSAT really doesn't have much of a relationship to the SAT's. I know far too many people that have scored exceptional on one and terrible on the other, me included (1200/174). Perhaps it shows if an individual can perform in a test environment, and it does partly resemble the RC section of the LSAT, but it certainly isn't enough to base any assumptions off of.</p>
<p>ok so apparently I need to expose myself a bit...</p>
<p>I'm a philosophy and history major at the University of Missouri. Average GPA is around a 3.3/2 or so from rough calculations from LSDAS for my school. I don't believe A+ are too common- it's up to the professors at my school to grade on a +/- grade scale., and for the most part, most profs just do A/B. My Major GPA is technically a 4.17. I took the ACT a total of 4 times: 27, 28, 29, 31, respectively. Don't really want, nor plan, to retake the LSAT, though I tested on practice tests at a pretty consistent 160/161. Should have good rec.s and I do have decent E.C.s- I was the president of a 120+ person fraternity, chief justice of a student court, etc. I will graduate with an honors certificate (20+ hours in the honors college) and took place in some one-on-one 'special readings' courses with professors.</p>
<p>My thoughts don't change. I think you're going to end up with decisions all over the lot, so you need to apply to more schools than most people do. I think it's going to boil down to this. You're going to be in the bottom 25% for LSAT scores at each of those law schools. Are there more compelling applicants for that bottom 25% than you? If so, you're out of luck. If not, you're in. </p>
<p>You may meet the standard for auto-admit at Mizzou Law. If so, apply to it and aim only at schools above it in ranking and only to those you'd rather go to than Mizzou. (It's currently ranked #59 by USNews.)</p>
<p>I'd also suggest taking a flyer on some real reaches, including and maybe even especially Yale. You'll probably get dinged, but IMO, the schools at the top of the heap worry a lot less about their rankings and are thus less hung up on scores. You've got nothing to lose. Just write a great PS and get recs tailor made to the law schools.</p>
<p>What do you mean by having recommendations tailor made for each school? Is that a common practice? ... I hadn't really considered that because it seems like it would be a huge burden for the profeessor</p>
<p>I don't know that you or your recommenders will know enough about each school to tailor recommendations--however, if there is a particular program at one or two schools, or if your recommender has connections there, it might be worthwhile. But it may not help all that much...my (admittedly anecdotal) experience was that one of my recommenders was a provost at one of the T14 schools before coming to my college, so she wrote a tailored recommendation there. My GPA and LSAT scores were above their medians. I got waitlisted anyway.</p>