<p>Over the weekend, a UT freshman from Marietta, GA died from a fall from a 5th story balconey at the University Towers (private dorm). The story is at the following link:</p>
<p>So very sad.</p>
<p>Yes - I really feel for the parents and friends of this kid. It has all the signs of an alcohol related death.. he was a lacrosse player and pledging a fraternity. I suppose there will be a little-bitty article confirming or denying that in about a week. I read it to my DS, who said "Don't worry, Mom, I wouldn't do anything that stupid." That's probably what this kid told his mom.:(</p>
<p>Can I just say this...I hear University Towers is out of control. My d's friends say there is virtually no enforcement of alcohol laws and the atmosphere is not conducive to anything serious other than partying. Every UT-bound hardcore partier my d went to h.s. with ended up at that dorm.</p>
<p>The school will be sued. They'll settle out of court for a couple of million bucks (they all do), and no one will ever hear about it again until the next one.</p>
<p>The dead kid was a frat pledge. He died on Friday night towards the end of the fraternity's Hell Week hazing period.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The school will be sued. They'll settle out of court for a couple of million bucks (they all do), and no one will ever hear about it again until the next one.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If that's all, this is an outrage, IMO. The school should conduct a full fledged investigation and crack down on the "loopholes" that enabled this tragedy. If it's alcohol, crack down on alcohol policies, if it's frat initiations, get after the frats, etc. </p>
<p>To just pay 2 million and act like that's all a life is worth is no good.</p>
<p>Here is my 4 cents>i'm from brazil and i'm 23 i've been horrified with the teens here...I go to clubs a lot here in america and people just drink drink drink most of then can't drink socially it looks like they drink until their body gives up.It should be harder policy but then i person who enter a university is considered somehow "responsible" and "mature"....It's sad when young people die like that...</p>
<p>Devastatingly sad for all concerned. :( My heart goes out to the young man's family and all who considered him a friend.</p>
<p>As a parent of a college student, though, I would never consider suing a college for a foolish or irresponsible decision or action taken by my young adult kid. I'd be thinking...well, OMG, if I didn't send him off to college with any more sense that THAT....</p>
<p>I don't know how parents of one or two or three or six or however many kids can expect a school which is home to 50,000 students (like U.T.) to control the actions of every single student. I would not and do not expect that of a college. Instead, I expect MY child to live up to certain standards, standards which I've hopefully helped him form in the 18.5 years that I had him full time in my home. No one would sue ME if he did this foolish thing at home. Suing the school would be misguided and gonif-y IMHO. </p>
<p>Do I think schools should uphold their own policies re: alcohol and drugs? Sure. Absolutely. But, do I think that <em>any</em> college can or should be held responsible for the errant behavior of each and every enrolled student? Nope. Colleges are not babysitters.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>The kid was pledging the same fraternity as his older brother at UT. I suspect that his family was strongly supportive, just as the colleges and universities are strongly supportive of fraternities.</p>
<p>If this goes according to form, UT will be an active participant in covering up fraternity involvement and will dole out, at most, a mild slap on the wrist. The colleges know about Hell Week activities. One can only assume that they condone it.</p>
<p>Unfortunate as this situation is, I don't see how it could be considered the university's fault.</p>
<p>The student was an adult. He was responsible for his own behavior. Colleges cannot be expected to provide constant supervision, the way they would if their students were five years old.</p>
<p>IMHO <em>this</em>---
</p>
<p>is a bigger issue even than THIS:
[quote]
The colleges know about Hell Week activities. One can only assume that they condone it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is the job of the family to prepare a kid for functioning in the less restrictive environment of college. Again, a college cannot control the behavior of 50,000 students when the parents have not encouraged responsible behavior from an early age---and have set out clear expectations for personal conduct. To shift the blame from the individual (the student) to the school is to guarantee that this problem will NEVER be solved. A college simply cannot instill and teach that which the family has failed to do over 18 years.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>I agree with Berurah; however, I also think that excessive drinking is tolerated, and even condoned at many colleges. The bigger the college, the less control there is.</p>
<p>Put thousands of 18 yr olds with underdeveloped frontal lobes altogether, and even good kids do stupid things. I am not blaming the university completely, but I do think these schools do have some culpability.</p>
<p>"It is the job of the family to prepare a kid for functioning in the less restrictive environment of college."</p>
<p>Given current statistics on how wide-spread underage drinking is, parents can do everything right and still a teenager will choose to drink. There are many other pressures at work that lead a teenager to drink and that parents cannot control. If parents are to be blamed for underage drinking, well, that must make the majority of us (including yours truly) complete failures as parents. Given current statistics on how wide-spread the heavy/binge-drinking culture is on some college campuses including those with a strong greek presence, the risk of incidents like this happening are very high since those same pressures to drink still exist. </p>
<p>I don't think anyone expects schools to take over the role of parenting 18-year olds, but given the social consequences, they DO have a social responsibility to address this problem - as we ALL do. Why shouldn't they take some responsibility in monitoring and policing areas and activities where underage or heavy drinking is most likely to occur?</p>
<p>Playing the blame the victim game is a bigger guarantee that this problem will NEVER be solved.</p>
<p>
I think colleges have an obligation to uphold the very rules which they set, and I think many colleges fail to do this. I had this same issue with our high school this past fall when it allowed (and supported) content in the yearbook which depicted behaviors which were very EXPLICITLY banned in the rule book. The double standard certainly doesn't help matters, which is why it is CRUCIAL that students themselves take responsibility for their own actions.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
There is a vast difference between underage drinking (esp. when it involves drinking at an age when it was LEGAL for me to drink in Texas in the 70's) and serious and chronic abuse of alcohol. Two completely different things.</p>
<p>The glass or two of wine or beer that I partook of at college parties is not nearly as damaging as the kind of binge drinking that is rampant today.</p>
<p>A young adult who CHOOSES to drink irresponsibly is <em>not</em> a "victim." It is that mentality that releases the student (and PARENT--isn't that really your point here??) of any responsibility and places it on the shoulders of colleges or society. That is ludicrous.</p>
<p>I am not now nor would I ever claim that my child has never taken a drink. I do know that he didn't drink AT ALL in high school or throughout his first semester of college. During the second semester, he tried his first drink--and he told me about it. I told HIM that I expect that if he decides to do this, <em>HE</em> owns the responsibility to drink responsibly (NO DRIVING!!!) and to show good judgment. He is NOT a "victim" of the college culture. I'd never give him that "out" and he darn well knows it.</p>
<p>People are not "victims" of their own choices. My son knows that if he chooses to behave irresponsibly with regard to alcohol, I will hold him accountable. Not the college. Not his friends. Not society. HIM. And he doesn't want to disappoint ME. If he were to make a foolish choice, I would hold no one accountable except him.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why shouldn't they take some responsibility in monitoring and policing areas and activities where underage or heavy drinking is most likely to occur?
[/quote]
I believe that I have already stated that I think colleges should make sure that their own rules are upheld in whatever way is necessary.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hear University Towers is out of control. My d's friends say there is virtually no enforcement of alcohol laws and the atmosphere is not conducive to anything serious other than partying. Every UT-bound hardcore partier my d went to h.s. with ended up at that dorm.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My opinion of UT has gone way down now. They run university housing with no enforcement of alcohol laws? </p>
<p>What is the excuse? </p>
<p>And why not sue? Isn't there always a lawsuit in America?</p>
<p>The dorm that he was living in is a private off campus dorm, not under UT control. I wonder if there will be vast changes at the dorm? If there is a lawsuit against the dorm itself, it seems as though there would be. I just cannot imagine how he went over the balcony unless he was sitting on the edge. How low is the railing? I wouldn't be surprised if next year the upper balconies have protective chain link or something to keep anyone from falling. </p>
<p>I am wondering all these things because Towers is my s's fallback dorm in case he doesn't get into one of the better on campus dorms. Yikes..... :(</p>
<p>I also do not like hearing about all the wildness at that dorm. Anybody have any insight into other options, ie private dorms, that are not as notoriously wild?</p>
<p>"I don't know how parents of one or two or three or six or however many kids can expect a school which is home to 50,000 students (like U.T.) to control the actions of every single student. I would not and do not expect that of a college."</p>
<p>I don't think anyone believes that, so that is a straw man. HOWEVER, I think we can agree that these are EDUCATIONAL institutions, and not ones built upon a continental European model. In the main, U.S. colleges and universities, or at least the "prestige" ones, pride themselves on educating "the whole person", "preparing students for life", and etc., etc. I don't care if the school is UT, my alma mater, Duke, UColorado, PSU, or wherever, a college which knows it will be sending off between 1/6th and 1/7th of its students (more if they are white males) into the world as future alcoholics (if they aren't already) are fourth tier schools, and I don't care what USNWR says. They may have lots of resources, and lots of fine professors, and big libraries, and great sports teams, and have used them poorly in carrying out their educational missions, unless providing the supports necessary to enhance a life of heavy drinking snuck into the mission statements when we weren't looking. There is plenty of research that exists out there regarding what they could do if they truly wanted to change, but they've decided to subvert their own educational missions so they can look good to alcohol consumers. Others will feel differently, and that's fine with me - that's what makes a market.</p>
<p>As to when they are sued, the colleges know from experience that they will lose, so it won't even get to court. The lawyers will settle quickly, the insurance companies will pay up - they always do, the alumni (or the taxpayer) will foot the slightly increased insurance bill, and it will be on to the next one.</p>
<p>So, are they responsible if the students are smokers and go on to suffer the results of smoking?? Overeating??, Sexual promiscuity?? etc etc.</p>
<p>Part of growing up is learning that you are responsible for your own actions and the results.</p>
<p>"Part of growing up is learning that you are responsible for your own actions and the results."</p>
<p>And part of education is TEACHING it. I doubt that the vast majority of students have a clue as to what an alcoholic looks like, the specific biophysical results of heavy drinking over time, the long-term implications of specific behavioral choices, or even what "moderate" drinking looks like. (I look at student knowledge surveys all the time - they really DON'T know.)</p>