Answers to questions

<p>I received the following questions in a private message from from a potential applicant and thought that it would probably be of wider interest, so I'm answering here.</p>

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I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about the social culture. I've also heard that professors often assign a lot of reading knowing that students can't finish it - first, is that kind of practice an actuality? And second, do you thinkit contributes to student stress?

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<p>On social cuture:</p>

<p>I think you have to start with the kids who attend. It's a little hard to generalize because there are many kinds of kids at Swarthmore, but... They are all pretty smart and have done well in high school. They tend to be kids who hung out with other "smart" kids, not so much the party crowd in high school. They range from pretty "normal" kids to some hard-core nerds. Not much in the way of "loud" statements -- piercings, tatoos, goth, etc.</p>

<p>There are kids from expensive prep schools, but for the most part tend to not be textbook "preppies". The wealthy kids tend to not flaunt it and there is little or no class distinction. The percentage from public schools is pretty high for a college with extremely high median SATs. About, 22% play varsity athletics, but with few exceptions, athletics comes second to academics. The students are very diverse, but mostly tend to be kids who had some interest in social action of one type or another -- community service, teaching, public policy law, international business with a third world bent, etc.</p>

<p>Typical social scene involves a lot of impromtu gatherings in dorms -- a sushi party where they make sushi and drink saki, watch a Kill Bill marathon, etc. There are typically two or three parties every Friday and Saturday nights, all of which are open to the entire campus. Any group, even just an informal group of friends, can easily get funding to sponsor a party as long as it is open to the campus. These are held in one of several locations and on any given night, one party might be sponsored by the women's tennis team and another by the Southeast Asian group. Doesn't really matter, a party is a party. My daugther's group of freshmen friends got funding for a party and had about 200 people. She said it was a lot of work!</p>

<p>Typical Friday night would be to do something (a movie, a concert, an acapella peformance, a Swarthmore Idol competion with the deans as Simon Cowell judges, a poker tournament, or dinner in Philly, and then head to one of the campus parties from midnight to 2:00 am). Most parties have alcohol, but non-drinkers go and dance to the DJ along with the drinkers. Another typical "party" is an indie rock band in the basement at the Olde Club -- an ex-frat lodge on campus. </p>

<p>About once a month is a major traditional campus-wide event where just about everybody on campus attends. Examples include the Mary Lyon Halloween Party. Or, the "Screw Your Roomate" dance (you set your roomate up with a blind date and they have to find each other based on funny costumes, acting out a skit in front of the whole school). Or, the huge, and reputedly wild, Sagar party sponsored by the gay student group.</p>

<p>The hard-core Animal House drinking scene is relatively limited by college standards, both in terms of percentage of students and disruption of the rest of campus. Non-drinkers and moderate drinkers make up dominant majority.</p>

<p>On assigning more work than can be done. The answer to that is, "of course!". I don't know a college kid in the history of the universe who hasn't, from time to time, had more to read than can be done by the next class. Part of college is prioritizing the work. If you have a paper due and a seminar on the same day, you might read the first assignment for the seminar, knowing that the majority of the discussion will be on that one.</p>

<p>Other than the natural stress of every college kid during exam week, I don't think Swarthmore is as stressful as it is portrayed... or at least doesn't have to be. The kids who feel the most stress are those who, for whatever reason, feel that they absolutely must have a 4.0 GPA while doing an Honors double-major, playing on the tennis team, and performing in the orchestra. If you want to overwhelm yourself with work, the school is happy to oblige, but that is a personal choice. </p>

<p>Very few of my daughter's friends sound like they are inordinately stressed by the work. To the contrary, they find the courses to be pretty fun for the most part. Grades are simply not discussed. Friends study together, proof-read each others' papers, and often sign up for a class together because they all think it sounds interesting or because somebody else took the class and recommended it. On average, they work reasonably hard. But, that's part of why they went there.</p>

<p>The faculty (in fact, the whole school) seems to be realistic about the odds of a college student getting everything done on time and tends to be accomodating. My daughter says the professors are too accomodating.</p>

<p>I'm back (I know, I know, even though I shouldn't be). I'm actually pondering sending in a formal request to extend my acceptance decision, because this decision is so damn hard. From this post, Swarthmore does sound more fun than UChicago (although perhaps also, less course material...). What are everyone's opinions though, on the merits/education gained from going to school w/ mostly liberal people who agree with you vs. a more diverse political body, especially if you're someone who KNOWS you will be active in social causes regardless?</p>

<p>Thanks, Interesteddad... this was very informative :)</p>

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although perhaps also, less course material...

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<p>I wouldn't want to mislead anyone about that. Like at all schools, Swarthmore students have a wide range of workloads, depending on their courses and the fanaticism with which they approach them. It's not the "killer" that it is portrayed to be. However, I do think it is is true that, on average, Swarthmore students choose the college with the idea that their academics pretty seriously. It's not like any of them arrive on campus and suddenly learn for the first time that Swarthmore has a reputation for rigorous academics. They seem to be generally engaged in their courses and, therefore, tend to work pretty hard. The professors feed off this campus culture and challenge their students.</p>

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What are everyone's opinions though, on the merits/education gained from going to school w/ mostly liberal people who agree with you vs. a more diverse political body, especially if you're someone who KNOWS you will be active in social causes regardless?

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<p>I am the wrong guy to answer. Personally, I am not a fan of political correctness or much of what is trendy at elite colleges these days. But, I view all that as pretty much a non-issue when it comes to choosing a college.</p>

<p>interesteddad, would you be willing to look over my 'Why Swat?' essay if I pm'ed it to you? I know that it is a personal essay though, so I completely understand if you would rather not. Thank you!</p>

<p>ecape,
Judging by your previous posts, I think Swarthmore would be a risky choice for you. It seems to me that most of your unhappiness at Smith had to do with its relatively small size. Although Swarthmore might have a different "flavor", you are likely to encounter similar "small school problems" there as well. For most Swatties the benefits by far outweigh the disadvantages. But for you they might not...</p>

<p>Actually, most of my problems had to do with the fact Smith was a single-sex college and that it lacked research opportunities in animal behavior of a kind that interested me. I was somewhat disappointed with lack of rigour in courses I happened to take. Both Swarthmore and UChicago would solve these problems, I think -they would both solve the first two for sure. Honestly, in real life I'm not much of a complainer at all, and I rather liked what community feel there was at Smith and at my small high school. I'm just going into agonizing detail over other possible problems with colleges in my struggle to differentiate what I could get out of education at Swarthmore vs. UChicago for my decision-process. I half-suspect I'd have more fun at Swarthmore, but mature/learn more at UChicago -but who knows? After three years at a hardcore math and science charter school and then a year at a women's college, fun sounds awfully tempting...</p>

<p>Jaimie:</p>

<p>Sure, send it along if you like. I'll warn you in advance that I don't do grammar edits and stuff -- that's too much like work! Also, all I'm really good for is offering an opinion on whether or not the overall approach might work, maybe with a general suggestion of how to perhaps strengthen it. But, remember....I'm just another guy, so I could steer you right, or wrong!</p>

<p>Thanks, interesteddad, I'd value any sort of advice you could offer. And don't worry, I won't just accept your opinions blindly :) .</p>

<p>ecape,
I agree with nngmm.....I also read your other post about your problems with Smith. But if you are transferring out of an LAC, it does not make sense to transfer into another one. Swat is small in terms of scale..</p>

<p>Possibly that's right. It's just that when I visited Swarthmore I loved it so much more than when I visited UChicago. But what I loved at Swarthmore I think was largely a gorgeous and huge campus (I'm a country girl more than a city girl), the fact our tour guide was a well-spoken and funny first-year from Pakistan double-majoring in peace and conflict studies and pre-med which freaking rocked in my op, and I also loved the commune-type way they organize dining and free parties to get everyone to interact. I also feel Swat would not be as isolated as Smith, because Philly is a half-hour by train. Maybe though, those aren't reasons to choose a school...</p>

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Possibly that's right. It's just that when I visited Swarthmore I loved it so much more than when I visited UChicago.

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<p>I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you're leaving us all scratching our heads!</p>

<p>If, after visiting Swarthmore, you loved it so much more than the other school, isn't your decision already made? This isn't rocket science.</p>

<p>There is no perfect school. They all have warts. Swarthmore has warts. I know darn well Chicago has warts. All you can do is feel in your gut which one is for you and then roll with the punches. If you are lucky enough to "love" one when you visit, so much the better.</p>

<p>We're all sittin' here trying to support you in your choice of Chicago because it has sounded like that's what you prefered. Nobody wants to convince you, or anyone else, to choose Swarthmore if you don't really like the place.</p>

<p>But, then you turn around and hit us, out of the blue, with the statement above and it's like....why didn't you just say that in the first place?</p>

<p>I think your heart must be telling you one thing, but, for whatever reason, your brain is telling you something else. I know which one I would tell my daughter to follow.</p>

<p>You aren't the first person to love Swarthmore more than Chicago. I couldn't even get my daugther to visit Chicago -- that's how much she didn't love the idea of Chi-town winters (and it didn't help that she thought Chicago's essay questions were the most pretentious thing she'd seen from a college.). But, I believe that most of the other parents in this extended conversation have kids who did choose between Chicago and Swarthmore. Why? I don't know. I imagine that they visited and just knew it was the right place.</p>

<p>Because a visit only tells you so much about a place. Because while I enjoyed the Swarthmore "atmosphere," it doesn't offer certain classes I'd like to take. Because my love-feeling towards Swarthmore was based so heavily upon talking to maybe 6 people and the beautiful campus, whereas I know a lot more concrete things that would influence my education at UChicago. I was only trying to explain why I'm having trouble writing off Swarthmore completely, not trying to confuse anyone anymore than I myself am confused. I've heard the whole "go, visit, and see where you love" advice, but I'm skeptical. My mother worked hard to go to a state school, and would have been happy if I'd gone to a state school and saved the family some money. I'm not about to feel good about myself if I tell my family and mentors "I don't know as much about how far I'll be able to pursue my specific educational interests at this school, but it seemed like more of a 'happy' and 'fun' place." Actually, I have said some of those things to my parents, and they pointed out that I will find friends wherever I go, and those friends will only be a max of like a hundred people anyway. Also, I did enjoy the feeling of a collective social conscience for the two days I was there, but I know I can find this other places, it just wouldn't be as easy to notice it immediately on a campus visit to a larger college.</p>

<p>There was a lovely piece of advice by jmmom. Let me dig up that thread.....it's about how to choose if you have many choices.</p>

<p>See this thread. I think it is a jem, especially jmmom's.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=51596%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=51596&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
You aren't the first person to love Swarthmore more than Chicago. I couldn't even get my daugther to visit Chicago -- that's how much she didn't love the idea of Chi-town winters (and it didn't help that she thought Chicago's essay questions were the most pretentious thing she'd seen from a college.). But, I believe that most of the other parents in this extended conversation have kids who did choose between Chicago and Swarthmore. Why? I don't know. I imagine that they visited and just knew it was the right place.

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<p>That's what happened to me. When I visited UChi I knew it wasn't the right place. The place seemed to have a cold, distant atmosphere, and the class was not very stellar. However when I visited Swat I knew it was the right place, at least out of the choices I had...</p>

<p>Also if the social life at the school fails you there is always the option of Bryn Mawr or Haverford right down the road and of course Philly is a short train ride away.</p>

<p>College_Hopeful, I think Philly is nearer than Haverford and Bryn Mawr....</p>

<p>escape, I'm pretty sure you know where you want to go. A useful, if corny, exercise is to pretend you have just 5 seconds to decide. If the question is where you want to spend the next 3 (?) years, 5 seconds will be more than enough time. Unless there is a huge financial or logistical factor influencing your decision, your gut is all you need. In my opinion, all of this stuff about class availability, research opportunities and pre-existing professorial relationships don't really amount to much in the grand scheme of things. If you are as truly thirsty for knowledge as you claim, it will not elude you @ either school. It is funny how we Swats (or parents thereof) can't help but want you to choose Swat. It's kind of a subconscious "choose me, choose me!" desire for validation, I think, and I'm guilty of it too. We just want to believe Swat is best. I'm not sure if it is, but it is definitely damn good. I think you can rest assured that the limits to the knowledge you will be able to absorb and the speed at which you will be able to absorb it, will only be limited by your personal bandwidth.</p>

<p>BTW Swat is definitely not single sex. I know my son in particular is definitely looking forward to all the new brilliant, vibrant, self possessed young women who will be descending on Swat this August and I'm sure he would love to make your acquaintence.</p>

<p>My first paragraph is really just a dumbed down version of what interesteddad has been telling you all along. He is just about alway spot on in my book. Like I said, I'm sure you know where you want to spend the next few years. Who knows how many any of us has, including you. I recommend against choosing the sardines today against the possibility of eating abalone down the road (if vegan, please substitute turnips and truffles). Good luck!</p>

<p>Isn't this fun?</p>

<p>Gladdad, I have to disagree with you. I don't secretly want her to choose Swat for several reasons:
1) Swat has many qualified candidates already; adding one more is not going to make or break Swat, no matter that it does not have the name recognition of say Harvard or U Chicago.
2) If I (we) steered her wrong, then this affects at least 3 years of her life and I (we) don't want to be responsible for it.
3) She already said she does not like 'small'.</p>

<p>I agree with Achat. Overwhelming majority of Swarthmore students "belong" there, which makes it the kind of cozy and happy place it is. I am sure ecape is qualified to attend, but she is the only one who knows whether it is the right place for her. (I think one of the biggest problems at Harvard is the significant number of unhappy students who chose to matriculate there for all the wrong reasons...)</p>