Any Brits applying?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>I'm actually applying for class of 2013 but as there isn't a forum for that yet this is the next best thing.</p>

<p>Firstly.. congratulations to everyone who has been accepted!</p>

<p>Secondly.. I'm worried about my SATs. We don't study them in England, and I finished high school in 2005, so I've been out of education for a while. I'm wholly committed to studying by myself but still concerned that my scores won't be high enough. If anyone can give me any advice I'd really appreciate it!</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>Joey</p>

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<p>Hey Joey,</p>

<p>I'd definitely suggest picking up some of the SAT prep books. They'll give you some idea about what the tests are like and the practice tests really help raise your score. They are kinda different from school stuff so having been out of school awhile won't hurt you THAT much. especially for the sat 1. The material is very predictable, so keep doing practice tests and you'll be fine.</p>

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<p>Thanks annabell. I haven't found any of the SAT prep books in my town but I think I can order online. For my subject tests I'm looking to do Literature, French and Biology. Biology wouldn't have been one of my choices really but as I have to do three, I took practice questions for all the subject tests and it was the one I did best in.</p>

<p>I tend to struggle with math though. Last time I studied mathematics was for my GCSEs in 2003/4 and I studied intermediate level, not higher. The US already does much more advanced math than we do in the UK so I'm worried that I won't score well on that test. Do you think the schools will take that into account when they see that I'm not coming straight from high school? Also I'm applying to study English so maybe they can overlook a lower math score if the rest of my application is good?</p>

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<p>the math on the SAT1 won't be hard or require alot of mathematical knowledge. it's just... tricky. as for the sat2, they offer Math1 and Math2, depending on the level of math you are prepared for. try looking at the practice tests. If you are able to do math 2 (the harder one) based on the level of math you did at school, id suggest doing it. it has a more generous curve and some people who take both score higher on math 2 than on math 1.</p>

<p>I'm terrible at math. I scored a 670 and then a 680 on the SAT 1 Math Section, and on the SAT subject tests, i scored 700 on Math 1 and 660 on Math 2. I indicated I wanted to do English / Economics / Psychology on the application. I got in, so I wouldn't worry too much -- they'll focus on the strengths of your application.</p>

<p>The fact that you've been out of school awhile will really pique their interest. If you have a cool reason or you've done some really interesting stuff, be sure to explain it somewhere (i THINK there's a place on the application that is for this purpose). It may, possibly, give you an advantage / make you stand out.</p>

<p>I'm an international applicant too, and I also did the GCSE / IGCSE. I am sure they are familiar with all sorts of school systems, especially the british ones.</p>

<p>SAT scores are not THAT important. I personally think getting around 700 and above ish on each section will be good enough and any higher won't help that much.</p>

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<p>Ooooh I see. Well I won't be doing the math for the subject test, just whichever one is in the reasoning part. And I think you don't get to choose if you do I or II for that.</p>

<p>I actually did A Levels in school, though I didn't get amazing grades. I wasn't really a great student as I was experiencing a lot of difficulties. So I'm hoping they don't put too much emphasis on my high school stuff. I'm not sure the high school transcript (though I really don't have any idea what that is) will be considered too relevant anyway, seeming as I'm a very different person now than I was when I left school.</p>

<p>I've always wanted to be a musician so since I left school I have worked on writing, recording and producing my own album. I'm not sure what they'll make of that really. It's not.. well, it's not "usual", shall we say.</p>

<p>Where are you from? I've been looking at threads about international applicants and there doesn't seem to be many from the UK, I wonder why that is.</p>

<p>Also.. you put English/Economics/Psychology on the application.. did they take your first choice? How likely is it that someone wouldn't get their first choice? English is my first for Princeton, but I'm also applying to Yale, and my first for there is History of Art.</p>

<p>Thanks SO much for your help :D</p>

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<p>Education in the United States is very different from the UK. When you apply to a college here, they ask your intended major just to see where your interests lie, but it really has no effect other than that. People are admitted to universities here without any mention of what they put on their application as their "intended major." You are not bound to anything. I decided to put physics / mathematics / economics on my application, but I could decide right now to be an English major instead. Nobody would say anything. You do not formally decide your major till usually the end of your sophomore year, and I believe you can still change it during your junior year.</p>

<p>If you're just taking the SAT Reasoning (the regular SAT, the first one people take, also known as SAT I), you're right, you don't choose between Math I and Math II. There are three sections: critical reading, mathematics, and writing. Critical reading tests reading comprehension and vocabulary, mathematics tests mathematical reasoning up to the algebra II level (in the US this is the elementary algebra learned before trigonometry, which is learned before calculus; these questions are "tricky" and not usual math questions, though, so a test prep book would probably benefit you the most in this section), and the writing section has you write an essay in 30 minutes or so and then also tests you on grammar. The writing is usually the least important section, so if you see scores out of 1600 it's critical reading + mathematics. You can take this test as many times as you want and your best score from each section is used. Most people take it 2-4 times, sometimes just once. Princeton doesn't care how many times you take it: 1 time counts the same as 4 times. My apologies if I mentioned something you already knew: just trying to give all the help I can, as I know it can be very confusing to enter a new world :). </p>

<p>The SAT II, or Subject Tests, differ from the SAT Reasoning in that they gauge how much you've learned the material rather than trying to test your reasoning abilities like the SAT Reasoning attempts to do. They're a little less "tricky" and more like a typical exam.</p>

<p>Princeton will consider your situation. Admissions at Princeton is an art, not a science :) they consider every student holistically: no "formulas" and whatnot. Your high school transcript is very important, but everything else about you is quite significant as well. Essays are very crucial here because of this approach, and this will prove even more true in your case, it seems. Also, don't fret too much about test scores: only half of the students with perfect 2400 scores get admitted to Princeton, and a majority of people (myself included) are admitted with lower scores than that. They consider them, but it's mostly only important to hit a certain range, as mentioned before.</p>

<p>I hope this all helped!</p>

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<p>you don't choose your major until sophmore year (2nd year), i think. so you have AGES to decide, explore, etc. what you indicate you want to study on the application is not binding in ANY way. it's just so that the admissions office has better idea of who you are, what you like, what your preliminary interests are. I can eventually major in astrophysics or archaeology or absolutely anything and it will be no problem at all. you get into Princeton, not a department. They do ask you if are interested in an arts or engineering degree, but as far as i know it isn't too difficult to switch between these. In this sense it is a world apart from UK universities, where you pick a course and each department has separate admissions.</p>

<p>the musician stuff sounds pretty awesome, and it will definitely help you. They love people with a talent / passion. I don't know how much this will make up for not-so-hot grades though -- I hope yours are okay at least. You don't have to be an academic superstar, but being quite good is important. If you went through some difficult times, and as a consequence, didn't do as well as you could have at school, it might be a good idea to explain that somewhere in your application. They are quite understanding about this stuff, but do let them know.</p>

<p>I think there are lots of UK and international applicants, but not many know about and come on this website, and even less identify where they are applying from.</p>

<p>I'm glad to help in any way. I was totally clueless this time last year too. I didnt even know what the SAT was, like, a month before I took them, and I didn't know the difference between college and university, how everything worked, etc... so i know how it feels. :)</p>

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<p>haha you beat me to it, JoeTrumpet.</p>

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<p>Wow, I had no idea that you don't choose a major.. that's insane to me haha! But then how do the classes work? You can just go to any? You've totally confused me on that :P</p>

<p>Everyone keeps referring to the math SAT as "tricky". I'm not quite sure what to make of that. I'd much rather it be "easy", but no such luck. I have no idea what calculus is, we don't use that term in regular high school math here. I can do trigonomotry though, woo! (that's the one with the triangles, right?)</p>

<p>Can you explain what a high school transcript is? Does that just mean the details of grades I got in high school?</p>

<p>Yeah I didn't do too badly, for A Levels I got:</p>

<p>English - B
Theatre Studies - B
Philosophy and Ethics - D</p>

<p>And I did 11 GCSEs, grades: AABBBBBBBCC</p>

<p>But my academic drive has increased, hence even thinking of applying to these schools. Even just studying for the SATs on my own time probably shows that I have the will to do it. Which I will flower up and write about on my application. Dddddedication etc.</p>

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<p>The time away from school can definitely help, as was mentioned above, provided you have a compelling story, reason, etc.</p>

<p>I graduated high school in 2002, and actually applied to join Princeton for the Class of '11 because of military service. I made that a big part of my essay, there were a lot of valuable, character building, episodes in those 4 years. And then, when I was asked to do 2 more years of government work I asked for a deferment, and got it. I had excellent grades from 2002 (1600 SAT-max then, and Valedictorian), but no AP courses, no IBs, and no real notable extracurriculars. I fully believe I was accepted for the value of what I did after high school. So, I would try to get an excellent SAT if I were you, but I'd focus more on allowing your essay to show how you've grown/changed since you left high school.</p>

<p>Hopefully you'll have similar luck and I'll see in the Fall of '09 when I actually start. Should be interesting to see how many 25+ Freshmans there are.</p>

<p>Josh</p>

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<p>Thank you for that, it's good to know! I will be 22 when I start if I get accepted, so I'm not quite a mature student, but not a regular young spritely one. But I should think that'd be fine. Hopefully see you next year!</p>

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<p>You can take anything you want, pretty much. Typically your first year you take courses to begin fulfilling the general requirements. The general requirements are, from the site:</p>

<p>Writing Seminar—one course
Foreign Language—one to four terms to complete, depending on the language students study and the level at which they start
Epistemology and Cognition (EC)—one course
Ethical Thought and Moral Values (EM)—one course
Historical Analysis (HA)—one course
Literature and the Arts (LA)—two courses
Quantitative Reasoning (QR)—one course
Science and Technology, with laboratory (ST)—two courses
Social Analysis (SA)—two courses</p>

<p>As you can see, these categories are fairly wide and rather expansive, so you have some freedom as to which courses you want to take within each category. These are the requirements for AB candidates: engineers have fewer requirements.</p>

<p>Many people have an idea of what they might want to pursue in college, so they begin taking courses in that. I, for example, am interested in physics, so my first year I will take the introductory physics sequence and some math courses, while my other two courses will probably be the writing sequence and who knows what else. Physics is one of the majors that's actually more difficult to complete if you don't begin your first year, but it's still possible to complete it in 3 years. You have the freedom to take any course you want, though: as a physics major I could still take some music and literature courses as my electives. In fact, you're expected to take electives, related to your major or not, beyond your general education requirements.</p>

<p>Here's a sample schedule for a physics major provided by Princeton:</p>

<p>Typical</a> Physics Major's Courses</p>

<p>I am by no means bound to take these courses in this manner, of course. There are only 8 courses I specifically have to take for my physics degree, plus the introductory physics courses and the math courses. Notice all the holes in the schedule: these holes are filled with general education courses and electives. A lot of room to explore other academic interests at Princeton :)</p>

<p>The math SAT isn't difficult, really: the mathematics involved is not very advanced. Once you read a few example problems you'll see what people mean by "tricky": they're just weird. They're unlike any math problems you've probably done by that point, and probably unlike any math problems you'll ever do again. They're simply weird and it could really help for you to grab a study book and go through it: it'll show you the typical tricks ETS (the company that writes the test) enjoys using, and what methods exist to make your life easier.</p>

<p>A high school transcript is, yes, a detailed report of all your grades from high school. Your high school needs to send these to Princeton using the form provided by Princeton.</p>

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<p>I'm from London, and my SATs weren't as good as they could have been (SAT I 2210, SAT II 640, 660, 700) but my A-levels and GCSEs are pretty solid. As long as you have amazing extracurrics and write fabulous essays, they might overlook SATs that aren't wonderful.</p>