<p>Yes please!</p>
<p>Our school has a number of graduates who went to Oxford, and the cost has not been near what you pay at the top priced US schools. Getting financial aid abroad is nearly impossible, I am told, even at top colleges. There are some fellowships and programs that offer full rides, but you did not apply via those. If you google "financial aid for US students abroad", there are some sites that do address your issue.</p>
<p>What are you expecting to pay for the top US schools? The indications seems to be that you are applying to $50K range schools here, that do not give merit money, so unless your family has come out low on the FASFA and PROFILE forms, you are not going to get a whole lot there too.</p>
<p>During your breaks, you go to Crete - it will cost you about $30 a day, all inclusive, or $210 a week (actually, probably less); or Athens (about the same); or even parts of Italy (you can stay at the hostel in San Frediano in Florence for about the same.) Or you will meet friends, and they will take you home. You can even go to the beach in south India - transportation will cost you some, but you'll live virtually for free.</p>
<p>Last time I looked, my college at Oxford (Worcester - Somerville's twin) came in at around $30k for non-Commonwealth, non-EU nationals. Of course, much depends on the exchange rate (which currently is in the toilet.) At Worcester, we used to have wonderful reading parties in the Lake District after the first term, with "bursaries" provided by the College - all expenses paid.</p>
<p>(Oriel is usually close or at the bottom of the table - athletes! rowers! The rankings are absolutely meaningless.)</p>
<p>What's wrong with Somerville? That's where Dorothy Sayers went! :)</p>
<p>Nelle...
I've been lurking obsessively on the Princeton boards because my daughter applied ED as well. Happily, she was admitted.
But here's the thing. Almost all the people who posted on CC who seemed like very strong candidates to me and who were deferred had some connection to Oxford...ended up there, had done a summer term there, or something like that. I have a theory that Oxford, unlike Harvard, Yale, etc. does not honor U.S. ED understandings and that Princeton has been "burnt" enough by people accepted at Princeton ED opting for Oxford that they are hesitant to take people ED who they think are applying to Oxford. I can't prove this but I strongly suspect it is true.
If you are still interested in Princeton, please keep signaling to them that they are your first choice.</p>
<p>I don't see why Oxford should be bound by U.S. understandings. They offer a very, very different product, with students studying a single subject for 3 or 4 years, and with a fairly radically different academic environment. I wouldn't say "better or worse" (though having experienced both, I'd likely say significantly better for most folks), but subtantially different. And it isn't like they lack quality applicants.</p>
<p>In any case, wouldn't it be THE STUDENTS who apply ED to Princeton who are not honoring their obligations?</p>
<p>Good points, Mini.</p>
<p>First of all: how on earth could Princeton find out that I applied to Oxford??? Of course I would have honored their agreement if I was admitted...but how do I tell them that they are still my first choice? "Dear Princeton, even though I have been admitted to Oxford, I would like to inform you that..." HA.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse: Princeton's early estimator said that I'd get ~$20k aid, as did one of the FAFSA/CSS things I filled out.</p>
<p>mini: What does the $30k include?</p>
<p>Nelle - this is not my area of expertise, and I would be looking it up the same as you would.</p>
<p>$20k aid per year at Princeton means you will be forking out more than $100k over four years. I don't know that Oxford is cheaper without any aid, but it is worth figuring out. (Your experience of living and studying at Oxford, and visiting around Europe and etc. will be far, far richer than the average Princeton experience for a person who doesn't have money to do the same, but that's a separate issue.)</p>
<p>Nelle...
I'm not sure that they do know you applied to Oxford.
But if you're still most interested in Princeton, simply do what other deferred people might do- send updates and let them know they are still your first choice.</p>
<p>Forgive me if I am incorrect. I understand that the Oxford program is over 12months-rather than 9 month school year. You receive your "undergraduate" degree in 3 years-and your "masters' during your "4th" year. The expense is roughly equal to 5 years of study @ HYP level school-but you complete your studies in 4years-thereby allowing you to be in the workforce a year early.From that vantage point, the expense of attending Oxford is worth it.</p>
<p>Mini...
My kids would love to do school in London. But my son who did a term there and was on heavy financial aid lost substantial weight stretching his budget. His faculty adviser was alarmed and ended up buying him meals. London and much of the rest of Europe is like Manhattan (though more expensive)- great if you have plenty of money, a different kind of adventure if you have none.
Things have changed since you and I were college age.
Sorry for taking the bait and going further off topic!</p>
<p>Tee-hee. I was at Oxford at the very worst time in U.S. dollar deflation - worse than now! And my fellowship was paid in dollars! The only food I could afford outside of hall was at the Bangladeshi restaurants. I squatted in a 5th-floor walkout in a place called "Wellington Square" (right near Somerville, now very posh). And I "sold" my first poem - I made a plea for money, which I wrote in Middle English, in the style of a 15th Century poverty-stricken court poet, back to the fellowship granting agency, and they cut me an emergency check. </p>
<p>Out of term, I DID stay at San Frediano in Florence (cost me a dollar a night), and for another dollar, went to a "restaurant" run by a group of nuns where from 4 to 10 p.m. they fed you all the chicken and red wine you could consume. Another break I slept on the beach in Crete, and ate fried sardines (quite tasty); another one, I squatted with a friend in Munich, and hitchhiked to Vienna on Christmas Eve to get a standing room ticket on the fourth balcony of the Opera for Die Fledermaus. </p>
<p>Then I ended up working in Iran, which allowed me to hitchhike there and back through half the countries in Europe.</p>
<p>I wouldn't trade a minute of it!</p>
<p>APOL - actually, that's not the Oxford system. Technically, the Oxford year only lasts 24 weeks in total (i.e. 3 x 8 week terms). Tutors tend to use the long holidays as an excuse to give people more work during term time - I'm probably going to be spending most of this summer writing my dissertation, because I just don't have time during the rest of the year. </p>
<p>You are correct that Biochem is a 4-year Masters degree though. If it's the same as Chem, which my best friend is studying, the fourth year is solely research.</p>
<p>"His faculty adviser was alarmed and ended up buying him meals. London and much of the rest of Europe is like Manhattan (though more expensive)- great if you have plenty of money, a different kind of adventure if you have none."</p>
<p>My d. is in Florence this year, paid for virtually entirely by financial aid. She lives with a family, and the school gives her 7 pounds for lunch. She found a lunch place that costs her 2.10. (quite tasty - she took me there.) With the savings she funded virtually her entire trip to Athens and Crete, in Athens staying at a fantastic place! where she met students and other travellers from around the world.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.studenttravellersinn.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.studenttravellersinn.com/</a></p>
<p>I have actually figured it out, and, adjusted for inflation, it is actually cheaper now than it was in 1973. (BUT it is also true that low-income jobs in the U.S., those that students often hold and save money on, buy much less - either in the U.S. or in Europe - than they would have then. And it is also true, at least in Italy, that anything that requires services - i.e. restaurant meals - are much more expensive relative to the cost of food; other than meat, we found food in the supermarkets and at the Mercato substantially cheaper even in Florence than in the U.S.)</p>
<p>You can live cheaply in Manhattan as long as you forego the restaraunt meals and if you have your rent covered. The same with Europe. I don't find college meals here in the US very economical anyways, with the use of the campus cash/dining dollars system. Those kids who are on tight budgets tend to live on ramen and other budget foods, even here, cooked on burners or microwaves. I was not aware British schools were so expensive for US students as these posts indicate, but I think the cost is going to be close whether you go here on financial aid or to Oxford. If you applied to some schools with merit money possibilities, that's a whole different story. But the ivies, as you know do not give merit money, and once you are out of the HPY range some of your aid will be in form of loans.<br>
You have some time before your US acceptances so you can get a good idea of what your lifestyle will be at what cost in Europe. Living on a shoestring in Europe is not like living on a shoestring here, especially if you have family and support nearby here. It is not for everyone to be the poor American student in Europe, though many have sworn the experience to be the best in their lives.</p>
<p>Mini, I believe every word you said. But I still bet your experience in Europe "back in the day" is more difficult to replicate today. And I have a feeling you have been able to forward your daughter some "spending money", which we were unable to do with my son.
It's possible my son had a bad situation- he was given the standard "on campus" meal plan budget, but was in his college's program in London without either arranged meals or an easy ability to prepare meals in his room. It's also possible he did not make the most of his resources. He felt the best and most enjoyable deals were in the pubs. Still, every report I've seen says London is more expensive to live in than any U.S. city.
His school was Dartmouth, generally below the level of support of HYP but not by much.
Apologies to Nellie!</p>
<p>I do believe it is a little bit more difficult to replicate today, primarily because 1) the earning power of students relative to the costs of things is much, much lower than it was back then; 2) students simply expect more than they did then in terms of amenities; and 3) (and this is purely judgmental), I think most American youth are far less adventurous that I remember them being in the early 70s. In helping me d. while she lives abroad, we've discovered that most of the inexpensive opportunities available to students then are still pretty much available today (plane flights via Ryanair, are downright cheaper in absolute terms, and never mind inflation), but fewer Americans seem to avail themselves of them. (I could barely believe that the hostel at San Frediano in Florence is still operating!) In her recent Greek travels, my d. met Koreans, Spaniards, Englishfolk, etc., all managing well on the cheap, but nary an American.</p>
<p>There is no question that London is expensive! (it was in my day, too, even coming down from Oxford.) And my impression is that the exchange rate in London is much worse for Americans than in the rest of Europe.</p>
<p>Still - and this is just my opinion - what is offered at ANY American university can't get close to matching the overall experience of an Oxford education and three years in Europe (for an American). This is especially true as the world becomes more global, and contacts and experiences chalked up now will last a lifetime.</p>
<p>Hey, I did Europe on the cheap back in the '70's as well and wouldn't trade it for anything.... but it is downright silly to pretend that Europe today is the Europe of the 70's. I don't know that I'd want a daughter staying by herself in some of the sketchy places I stayed. I wouldn't want her sleeping in train stations, and frankly, in the post-terrorist Europe, lots of public places no longer allow "loitering". The local cops and state police just aren't as indulgent of the wandering student-- if you're in a major European city on the day of a heightened Al Queda threat you can find public transportation closed or limited, the cheap hostels surrounded by Interpol agents, and the train stations regularly cleared by bomb-sniffing dogs and cops with machine guns and riot gear.</p>
<p>Happened to me a few months ago.... I checked into a hotel and stayed there for the afternoon; a college kid on a tight budget, no family in town, and the American Embassy a long expensive cab ride away goes where?????</p>
<p>Europe is expensive. Yeah, you can find cheap flights to Lisbon on the w/ends and to Indonesia for Easter break but day-to-day living, no question, it's tight. Mini-- you don't see a lot of Americans in a lot of these places because if a city or location is on the State Department warning list, many colleges don't allow their undergrads to enroll in programs in those cities.... and lots of insurance companies clamp down, claiming that if you put yourself in danger due to terrorism or other acts of war the Warsaw Convention kicks in.</p>
<p>I think it is still very possible to do Europe on the cheap. Mini's last two reasons seem valid to me, and I'll also throw in that there are more of us who would not permit our kids to live the way we did back in our day. There terrorists and bombs in Europe when I was there. Bader Meinhoff blew up a building less than a block from where I was, and their final shoot out was only a few blocks away. I don't think my parents were as aware of the dangers as they never had the experience themselves, but having backpacked, eaten cheaply stayed at hostels as a luxury, I have no illusions about the dangers and drawbacks, and, yes, I admit, would be reluctant to let my pampered (my shame, yes) kids go under the conditions I did. They don't seem as streetwise or observant as I was. </p>
<p>This is not a situation confined to overseas travel either. I lived in a dive that would not meet some third world sanitation standards in some really dubious neighborhoods when I was young. Would definitely not sleep well at night with my kids living in the same. If they need money for food--easily available standard price food, they let us know, as they feel that is their right while in school. I did not do that as a student because even with my near full ride, my parents were financially stretched and I knew it. Whole different mindset. I know there were kids back then that would not do Europe as I did it because they were well supported by parents that made sure that more luxurious options for travel were available, and their budgets and living conditions were very nice. Those kids existed back then too, but I was not one of them. But it appears as though my kids are, thanks to my efforts. Which I suppose was one of my goalss, but it has its drawbacks too. You do lose something in not having them go through experiences that have some of these risks. I just don't have the stomache for them anymore, even vicariously.
However, the opportunites are still there. I've have seen kids take them even at this time. You can live for very little abroad and here as a student, but it is not a process many kids want to experience, especially if they have been living pretty high up to this point.</p>