<p>Are there any formal rankings of college music programs? As far as I know, US News & World Rept does not rank or rate them. Yet in this forum, I constantly read about this or that college music dept. being rated #4 or #27, etc. What rankings are they looking at and where can I review them? Thanks!</p>
<p>Jesus what is up with all the rankings, either a college fits you or it doesn't. As long as it's not a completely underfunded and obscure program, is its official prestige really THAT important?</p>
<p>I'm not interested in 'prestige', thank you, but I am interested in 'quality'. How does one assess the quality of the education in different music programs? They all have the same classes listed on the books, so that won't help. If you (or others) can suggest a good procedure for comparing quality of music programs, instead of looking for rankings from some (supposedly) informed body to have done it in a systematic way, I'd certainly be interested in that too.</p>
<p>dadsax- Welcome. If you haven't yet done so, please read BassDad's excellent series <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=258796%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=258796</a> and be sure to take a side trip to the Peabody links within just for general info.</p>
<p>In terms of ranking, it depends on what the desired intended program actually is. Performance study is more specificically geared towards finding a compatible studio teacher, and depending upon instrument, there are a multitude of top choices. Other disciplines...music ed, history, theory, composition, therapy, etc may more readily be assessed by the name recogniton of top professors within the disiplines.</p>
<p>frrph's point is excellent. It's the fit that counts. </p>
<p>Perhaps a bit more background regarding your particular needs would help the board posters in directing you to quite a large number of potential choices.</p>
<p>Thank you for that link; I hadn't seen it yet and will indeed read it when I have a bit more time. Your point is fair enough. My son is interested in a (classical) saxophone performance major. Now, we are already very familiar with who the top Prof's are in this area, and he has been accepted by several of them (and we're waiting to hear from a few more). So the issue for us now becomes how to choose from among them. How much emphasis to put on just the sax Prof. versus the rest of the music dept., versus the rest of the academic depts (esp. since he also wants to double-major in another [as-yet-unidentified] non-music field). He is trying to line up a lesson with each of the sax Prof's who have accepted him, so we'll be able to judge the fit with that teacher, but how much weight to give the other factors? And if any substantial weight, how to evaluate and compare the music depts as a whole? </p>
<p>One of the specific issues is that one of the very best sax teachers is at a school that is academically less strong than some of the others (e.g., admits 84% of applicants, SAT ranges for middle 50% start in the high 400s, etc.) while my son is also quite strong academically (SATs in 700s). How much weight do we give the overall academics versus this one Prof? Those are the kinds of discussions going on in our household, so I welcome your inputs, even if not related to 'rankings' per se. </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>The decision may indeed, as you fear, come down to that, but there are enough strong music schools within strong universities that you really need not worry yet. For example, I know that there are very strong sax teachers at Northwestern and Michigan.</p>
<p>I can't answer for anyone else Dadsax, and we are a year behind you, so still in the exploration stage.</p>
<p>I don't doubt the importance of the individual teacher...on the other hand, the college/conservatory experience is not that one-dimentional, at least that is how our family is beginning to size this one up. The quality of the full music school (which will determine the quality of ensembles, etc) and the overall academic caliber of the other students, is important as well. At least that is what we have decided. </p>
<p>I know other people may disagree (the CC opinion seems to be that the adage is "teacher, teacher teacher", kind of like "location, location, location" for home buying!), but my son feels he can work well with many different kinds of teachers, and would not be happy in an unacademically challenging or musically unfulfilling (if the emsembles, bands, combos, etc were only 'so-so") environment.</p>
<p>I imagine there are different opinions on this one, but that is mine, at the current moment (subject to change, I suppose!).</p>
<p>dadsax
we had that very same dilemma back when D was searching for a Flute Performance BM program and studio teacher..the strong teacher in a less academically inclined school.She was steered away by another flautist a year ahead of her who was transerring out of that school. Ultimately, she rejected that particular setting.
But she wound up taking an opportunity in a wonderful flute studio at what some might consider a 3rd tier University (ASU) b/c it offered her an Honors College setting,a full ride scholarship for being NMF,excellent facilities,the ability to minor in a field outside of music,and a teacher she wanted to work with.</p>
<p>The double major issue is a whole different can of worms. Some institutons welcome it, some discourage it, some won't even allow it. There are a number of seperate threads on that aspect in this forum.</p>
<p>A double major in a non-music discipline eliminates most if not all of the strict "conservatory" options.</p>
<p>Your choice may be based on your S's committment to the sax versus the "other". If both have equal weight, then your choices may be limited to the best balance between the two. You may have some tough choices.
Balancing quantum physics and instrumental performance for example is a tough one for anybody, regardless of stats.</p>
<p>Regards the music end, the quality and number of instrumental performing organizations within the music school are also paramount. Size of the particular studio also weigh heavily. Solo, orchestral, or small ensemble preferences bear as well... does S have a preference for type of play?</p>
<p>Many strong music programs are of "conservatory" type within a university setting, something you to need consider in making your choice. Many of these programs require good to very good stats for academic acceptance, particularly in a double degree emphasis. Again, without knowing the intended second discipline area and your choices and acceptances, it's hard to isolate specifics.</p>
<p>Consider also if your S is strong academically as well, there are opportunities for "honors" programs within the second discipline. If you are in a position where music needs may dilute the academic side for the second major, you may wish to investigate those options in the honors program. In many cases,
that puts you "at the next level" so to speak within an otherwise average program. </p>
<p>For some, it boils down to large versus small institution, urban versus rural,
dorm types, and amount of aid offered. </p>
<p>I've got two in college. S is a viola performance/music ed double major, D is in a very specific program that will get her 2 related Associates Degrees in an animal care field. Our experience is that once we were down to the actual acceptances, the decision basically was "does this feel right for you?"</p>
<p>Luckily that worked for us.</p>
<p>Hello Dadsax,</p>
<p>I understand your frustration in trying to assess what is the best program for your S. I think many of us experienced the same challenges. Unfortunately, there is no one source that can give you the definitive answer you seek; you have to weigh the pros and cons of each option you have and make a determination of what is the best fit for your S. It won't necessarily be perfect, and you will probably have to make some sacrifices in the balance.</p>
<p>My S, also a saxophone student (jazz), is strong academically, but was clear in his desire to go the conservatory route. Still, it was important to me that his academics, however limited in quantity, be as strong in quality as possible. So I looked pretty carefully at the faculty as a whole, and chose the program where I thought he would get the most he could, both musically and academically. I also examined the jazz faculty in its entirety, as well as the strength of the students. While the teacher was important to us, and S has an excellent teacher, like Allmusic's S, my S could have been happy with any number of private teachers. And the reality for him is that amount of time he spends with his improv and ensemble instructors far exceeds the amount of time he spends with his private instructor, so it was important to us that the overall program be strong, rather than going with a great teacher in a lesser program.</p>
<p>In trying to weigh all this, S applied to a university, a five-year dual degree program and a four year conservatory BM program, and ended up going with the latter. It has turned out to be the right choice for him. He loves the program, finds it challenging, and is very pleased with the humanities curriculum as well. It is not a perfect fit, however, in that it is academically limiting--I think he would enjoy a wider variety of academic options-- but that is a choice he made and he is ok with it. The bigger problem is it is socially limiting; he struggles more with that. Unlike some of the other posters here whose conservatory kids love it and thank them for sending them, my S is sort of tolerating the experience because he loves the program. His adjustment has been slow, improving thankfully, but very slow. On the other hand, he's doing great and he's growing up and learning that life isn't perfect. You make trade offs. He is confident that he is in the right place to learn, and he's learning to make it work.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your S.</p>
<p>Thank you all for sharing your experiences and thoughts, which I am reading with great interest. I welcome more additions to this thread. </p>
<p>dadsax</p>
<p>I would say that if his reactions to the saxophone teachers are equal enough, he might want to consider what the ensemble opportunities and faculty (wind ensemble, jazz studies, symphonic band, marching band, etc.) might be. Has he sat in on any rehearsals for any of these groups and observed the conductors? Additionally, while music curriculums have similar components from school to school in order to satisfy NASM (National Association of Schools of Music) requirements for degrees (assuming all under consideration are certified), there are differences in core curriculums and the wealth of enrichment courses in the particular applied area. For instance, one school might require strong science and math courses in core, as well as non-music humanities and social science courses, possibly foreign languages, and another may not. One school might have excellent pedagogy offerings in the applied area, while another has minimal perfunctory courses....frequently it depends on the interests and strengths of the current faculty. Another consideration is chamber music opportunities, how much the undergraduates get to do. Good luck to you and your family. Lorelei</p>
<p>Welcome dadsax and thanks for posting. This is a very timely topic for our family as well. We have come to the same conclusion as Allmusic in post #7for our violinist D (current Jr). She is very focused on the choice of teacher, but there are other things that have to be part of the total package as well. Some of her criteria are optional, but she won't compromise on the academics. Since we're at the beginning of this process, we're trying to factor that in as much as possible, but it's not easy.</p>
<p>One of D's problems when coming to the conclusion to reject the conservatory route was the limits of the outside academic offerings. At one place, every entering freshman took the same section of say,required english.
She was wavering over her entire social cohort being those 400 or so students,living,and attending classes with them. For her, the choice of the bigger School of Music within a University was the right choice...but every kid is different.</p>
<p>A couple of other things to consider. Is the saxaphone department at the school the only really strong instrument there or are there other strong wind teachers besides? One of the things that music students like is the opportunity to play with other folks who are as good as they are. For example, violinists will quickly become frustrated if they can't find comparable violists and cellists to form quartets with. Listening to some of the school ensembles can help somewhat in answering that question. </p>
<p>Second - what does the school do to help students establish careers in the field. Do they provide classes that help such as repertoire classes? Do they have a good program for providing opportunities for students to play out in the wider community? What are their graduates doing? </p>
<p>As mentioned above, you need to know how each individual teacher under consideration thinks about doing a double degree. Some are more supportive than others and this needs to be explored.</p>