<p>weenie, as you know nmd and I are old warhorses on the anti-merit aid threads. I'm sure it gets dull for everybody else but we still enjoy it. Gets the blood moving. ;)</p>
<p>It's kind of like the celebrity old folks Masters tennis tour at this point. Everything is so tired . We are serving at about 50 mph and think we are wailing on the ball. ;)</p>
<p>Maybe someone can correct me, but I think that there are really very few "need-only" schools -- the Ivy's and MIT come to mind. But Duke offers merit aid, and I'm pretty sure that Stanford has some athletic scholarships.</p>
<p>sjmom, there are very few but most of the time we put schools that only offer need aid or restricted scholarsips or athletic scholarships or very limited NMF scholarships all in a 'need-only" basket. An example would be Swat, there are some Delmarva Peninsula scholarships, a couple or so a year but nothing for a kid from Texas or Toledo. Other need only's that pop to mind (without referencing my list) are Wesleyan, Wellesley, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Notre Dame, Tufts, Vassar, Colgate, Haverford, Carleton, Georgetown, Macalester, Bucknell, ... I'm sure I can think of some more.</p>
<p>And of course Amherst , Williams, and the aforementioned Swarthmore . Women's colleges get a little confused Barnard has zero but the other Top Women's Schools may have a few leadership-type scholarships but I'd still put them into the "no merit aid" category. Smith has the most and it's's not that many, so mayne it can stay out. BrynMawr, Mt. Holyoke I believe have a couple of leadership awards.</p>
<p>I don't understand the problem here. Yes, there are top schools that offer merit aid. This board has the listed in many places. And by top schools, I just use the selectivity percentage because I can't keep up with the top whatever that USNews uses. And I don't really think a real number makes sense either. I think everyone here is smart enough to go slightly fuzzy in that definition without having to be real specific. Usually what I am trying to say does not have to bring the exact same schools to mind in everyone. </p>
<p>What Newmassdad is saying is something I have heard for years about admissions. Other than the top colleges that have more trouble deciding who to take than getting enough qualified applicants, schools do practice revenue management in their admissions. All colleges actually do this, those that are more under the gun for getting full pay or close to full pay students do this in more obvious ways. The most common practice is using nibbles of merit to entice kids who don't have true merit (yeah, I know that'll insult some recipients, but my kid is in that category- almost a B student, 1300 SAT, good but not great ECs), but still highly desirable to the school (in our case the male sex was a big draw since those schools are fighting a lopsided ratio in this area) with a merit award. A very good use of money, as a one time $5k award can attract someone who will pay the rest of the $30k+ cost. Even shaving the $5k or less off for 4 years, still is pretty good, as compared to having to cough up close to that amount to a similar applicant who needs loads of financial aid. </p>
<p>And, if your head is not turned at cocktail parties or other gatherings at with word that someone's kid got into HPY and company (you can define company as you will), that's great. I don't get whiplash from those things, but I can tell you that I hear it passed on more that Joe Jones got into Harvard than Sam Smith got into Sewanee (you can change the name of the school to whatever you want--people do have different thresholds.) In fact if the question is where Sam got in, many times they don't remember the name of the school.This is a fact of life, not an attempt to disparage a school or category of schools. </p>
<p>I also disagree with the contention that anyone who gets into a top school,even the famous trio is likely to get merit aid at those top schools such as Duke, UChicago, Pomona. Substantial awards at schools are very, very difficult to get, and I would say that less than1% of the applicants get them. The small "teaser" awards that my son was offered are a whole different story. If you are looking for substantial merit aid, it is important to look up how many such awards are given. Just because 40% of the kids at a school get merit money, does not mean that you are more likely to get a big award at that school. There could be only a handful of anything substantial, and some schools give out NO full awards, with the rest being amounts under $5K.</p>
<p>Oh, yeah. Pomona is need only also.</p>
<p>I do agree with the captain about HYP kids getting merit at Top 50 schools. Some yes, some no and for the top awards they are just one of several fine candidates that will usually be viewed and selected using a wholly holistic process, holistically. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's not most--Brown specifically forbids it and so does Harvard--at least the way I read their websites. RD yes, additional EA/EDs no. But didn't know that about Columbia and Penn.
[/quote]
Oh, sorry if I caused confusion back in my post 40 - I was talking about ED schools in general (the vast majority of which DO allow simultaneous apps to EA and rolling schools). The Ivies have verying policies as a lot of posters point out and I agree that it wouldn't be correct to issue a blanket statement on all of them (or even the ED ones)! Anyway, as I understand it six of the Ivy schools presently offer early decision. Out of those, Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth and Cornell do allow an EA app elsewhere as long as it is withdrawn if one is offered admission by way of an early decision acceptance. As other people mentioned, Brown and Princeton don't permit any simultaneous EA application.</p>
<p>Yale is considered SCEA, not ED, and no other early applications are permitted. Harvard, has an Early Action policy which also does not permit any concurrent EA or ED application, although it is OK to apply to rolling or EA public institutions, or any foreign university, at any time. </p>
<p>Of course, Harvard and Princeton are both dropping their early action/early decision plans next year - this is the last year they will be in effect at both.</p>
<p>Georgetown (not an Ivy) is an EA school that allows a student to apply elsewhere EA, but not ED! So, as pointed out in another recent thread, that would mean one could not apply to Cornell and Georgetown at the same time, even though Georgetown is an EA school and Cornell allows other EA applications along with an ED one there (Cornell would allow it but GT would not). But one could apply Georgetown EA as well as to another unrestrictive EA school.</p>
<p>I'm also pretty sure it's OK to apply to any rolling or state school at the same time as any of these schools ED or EA, including Harvard, Yale, Brown and Princeton. It would put students under too unfair a disadvantage not to be able to do so. I'm thinking of schools like Michigan, UVA, etc.where the earlier your application is in the better your chances of acceptance, especially out of state. Anyone know for sure?</p>
<p>"I also disagree with the contention that anyone who gets into a top school,even the famous trio is likely to get merit aid at those top schools such as Duke, UChicago, Pomona. Substantial awards at schools are very, very difficult to get, and I would say that less than1% of the applicants get them. "</p>
<p>BINGO!</p>
<p>UVa early is a tough one from what I have heard. Don't know the stats. You do not get sent into the regular pool is one issue with them. In other words, it's accept or reject, early.</p>
<p>Sorry--Pomona gives only financial aid money, though I have it on a list for some merit aid. Might be merit within need, maybe a mistake. The other Claremont schools do give merit money.</p>
<p>Actually getting "full rides" or close to them is difficult even for very good student without going way down the selectivity hierarchy. There is an excellent post by a mom on this site, who details how she got full rides for her kids. Ironically, she was panned by alot of posters who felt that was a selfish route to take.</p>
<p>cpt, You are right, UVa was a terrible example, - they are an early decision school. Penn State and Michigan which are both rolling schools and competitive for out of state applicants are examples of the scenario I meant.</p>
<p>Indiana and Wisconsin are popular choices as well at our school for kids looking for an early answer since our school restricts EA choices regardless of what the colleges chosen permit.</p>
<p>Four or five years ago a close friend of my D who ended up being admitted to one of the tippy top three was offered a large chunk of tuition merit at USC. I saw the letter, but since I am over 40, I do not recall if there were still essays and interviews, therefore it was an invition to apply or if it was a bonifid offer! Either way, it was a legitimate possibility had he not been eligible for a large need-based package at his Ivy. If a student does not have enough need at a need-based school, moving down the rankings and taking merit could be a smart tactic!</p>