any ideas for motivating high school sophomore?

Parents Forum
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<p>
[quote]
Or maybe my kids are just ornery 'lil stinkers.

[/quote]
Lol, Mstee! I think almost all teenagers are 'ornery lil stinkers!' fwiw, I think that sometimes this is an issue related to birth order -- the younger sibling of an overachieving student has a lot to live up to. Sometimes, I think, they purposely decide to choose a different path. I believe in encouraging and rewarding effort/academic risk, but I think it must be done in a sensitive manner, with awareness about how the kid is doing emotionally. Too much pressure just breaks the spirit, but without a little pressure it's hard to see any growth. I think that parents can explain the consequences of particular choices in life, and provide the support and encouragement to try the harder path. I was never averse to a little bribery (I just view it as motivation) but it was along the lines of non-monetary awards for a good effort. We always tried to reward the effort, not the result, especially when the kids were young. For example, we would have some special outing or reward for them after a music competition, but before we learned the results. It works sometimes, with some kids. If anyone ever finds the magic trick, I'll send cookies!</p>

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<p>Someone beat me to it, but taking "unmotivated" students to a college campus can help. We did this with our youngest during vacation. We sat through the admissions presentations, took the tours, explored a little of the area around the school. It seemed to help. </p>

<p>This thread has some advice (especially post #10): <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=117623%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=117623&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This thread is about unmotivated gifted children and has some good ideas also: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=117292%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=117292&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>thanks, over30. those are terrific links, especially #10 on the first thread. I'm relatively new to this site, but am struck by how insightful the advice is, and how much time people give to helping each other.</p>

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<p>I needed this today. My D, a sophmore is giving me fits. Lately she hates everything, she hates her school, the people in the school, all of her EC's, it goes on and on. I am so fustrated that I could scream, the negativity is driving me crazy. She is doing well in school so I can't complain but she could do better and it is so fustrating.</p>

<p>My Senior S, is a dream. Nice to be around, happy, doing well in school. Do you think I could send the Sophmore to college and keep the Senior around for a while?</p>

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<p>Junebug - my kids are just beginning to see that having the meanest, most unreasonable parents on the face of the earth did, afterall, have a couple of good points... i find that kids (read mine) who don't make the Deans list/Honor Roll couldn't possibly have time to play video games or be out after 10 pm on weekends, as they clearly needed more study time... cause & effect (w/ a few exceptions bcuz life is life) seemed to make more of a point than being understanding.... BUT IT IS REALLY HARD! I learned to be the most understanding when they were the most upset... my borrowed refrain (in the most caring tone possible) Yeah honey, sucks for you!</p>

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<p>Having my 5 has given me plenty of opportunity to see much, make mistakes and win some battles, especially from the viewpoint of a single mom. Kiddos are 22,20,19,18 and 15. 3 boys, 2 girls.</p>

<p>the older ones are all in great colleges, with nice scholarships, doing what they love; academics and sports and ECs. The senior is still himself but getting into some fun schools. So what has worked for me, can't say it will work for the OP, is I am "THE MAMA". Yep, all caps.</p>

<p>As quiltguru said children do exactly what is expected of them, no more, no less. My other nickname is "mother mean". No video games, no computer games (heck I have the sole 'older than dirt' laptop hand-me-down), so no AIM, no cell phone, no driver's license til they can buy their own insurance and their own vehicle. Yep, they ride THE BUS.
Oh, they can date if all their other siblings say its okay, they have to wear clothes that they can wear to church, and if the say "what" when I call them, can't be held accountable for the consequences.</p>

<p>They all play a sport, and if they don't like one that season, they better find one, quick. When they were little they all attended parochial school so it was uniforms all around and matching socks. They were excited to go to public school for a couple of different reasons. First, school actually had a gifted and talented program so they were all more appropriately placed. Bigger, better sports teams, especially beneficial to my football playing boys and the dd who is now a D1 athlete. Lots more people, interesting people, much more to experience. It really helped them stretch and try things they might not have in a smaller school. It seemed the smaller environment pigeon-holed them not due to size but to expectations which had been in place since they knew most of the kids and teachers.</p>

<p>And as far as them hating life or being negative, they were allowed to as long as it wasn't around me. Now that got a little tricky, cuz when you run the concessions stand for football, help coach more than one sport, help out the GC its kinda hard to be negative if mom is there.</p>

<p>They all have said they would rather be in trouble with the LAW than with me, because law authorities have to at least follow some rules. I love them all dearly and miss them dreadfully when they are away. They all call almost everyday and sometimes more than once a day. </p>

<p>But they all know the buck stops here.</p>

<p>I think one of the dad's in a previous post mentioned that they ran a democratic and fair household. I didn't, still don't. My house, my rules.</p>

<p>Even when they were little, I didn't reward them for grades, or great attendance or awards, honors blah blah blah. The reward was the privilege of learning such wonderful and fantstic things. The reward was developing great character and strength. The reward was the person who they got to look at in the mirror.</p>

<p>I love them no matter what, life is just easier for them if they follow the rules. My sis tells her little ones if they don't behave you are all going to Aunt Kat's, and they squeal, she is soooooooo strict but she loves us so much!!! "Can we bring all our clothes and just stay at her house?" She drops them off occasionally for a few days/weeks/months at a time.</p>

<p>Hopefully my ramblings helped Junebug. I can honestly say I don't push. The bulldozer I sit on does the pushing.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>I have talked to two principals and they both say they are frustrated at the growing number of "white boys" who are uninterested in scholastic excellence. It seems that white girls and Asian boys dominate their honor rolls, honor programs and AP classes. "White boys" seem to be more interested in classes that are easier so that they have more time for "fun things" -- sports, nintendo, hanging out with friends, etc. </p>

<p>It's not that these principals want white girls or Asian boys to not do as well. These principals just think that this country will be hurt if white boys (obviously a huge group in the US) become less academically inclined. And.... if girls become more academically stronger than males, then the potential for stable marriage partners for smart girls declines. In the past few years, more girls have taken the PSAT than boys. There are also more girls in college than boys. One principal (the father of three boys) can't even motivate his OWN sons, who are "C average" performers at school. He said that there is a stigma given to white boys who "care about their grades"... such boys are nearly automatically labeled as nerds. Only the most athletically strong can escape the nerd label when they get very good grades and take harder classes. This principal told me that he has Eagle Scouts that will not let him announce their accomplishment at school because these boys haven't let their fellow classmates know that they are E.S. Sad that it has come to this.</p>

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<p>My answer to my above detailed dilemma is to have both my boys in a small academically strong Catholic Prep school. That way, all the kids have to take hard courses (and keep their grades up so that they won't be expelled), so there is no stigma attached to achievement.</p>

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<p>katwithkittens..... I am sooooo impressed --- you are raising 5 kids as a single mom.... Congrats on doing such a good job. </p>

<p>I have often said that some of the problems I have with my two boys is because of the SFS (small family syndrome). When hubby and I were growing up (his family 8 kids, my family 7 kids) we knew that our moms didn't have time to do stuff for us. Kids in small families today have parents who just do tooooooo much for them. (One friend of mine never lets her kids make their own beds!!!!)</p>

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<p>From what I hear from my "mom of girls" friends, their daughters are more emotional than sons -- which is why there always is that mom/daughter struggle. Good luck.... it gets better when they are adults.</p>

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<p>JLauer95- I used to blame the dilemma that you describe (that the two principals stated) on the feminization of the school system that has occurred in the last 25 years. Now being older and hopefully wiser, I think that plays a small part (10%?),but I think it is the parenting style and materialism of America(50%) and the influence of video games ,media and TV (25%?)that also played an important role in the dumbing down of boys. No clear cut answers but certainly I have discovered that Dr. Spock and T Berry Brazelton were not right about everything they said and all the other touch feely types that advised us how to parent. </p>

<p>Lately, I have been of the philosophy that when it comes to parenting "I have seen the enemy and he is us" My kids S,19,D 15 almost everyday are like mirrors that seem to reflect the very personality flaws that both my wife and I posess. The rest of the programming society did. We can catch oursleves and change our parenting style, but what do we do with society? Live in a cave?</p>

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<p>This is an interesting thread.</p>

<p>I am ambivalent reading a lot of these messages. On the one hand, I think parents who take a draconian stance on homework, housework, responsiblity etc. are terrific-- and I agree that MOST of the time, children do what's expected-- set high standards, they achieve them; set the bar low, you've got a slacker on your hands.</p>

<p>However, like most of you I suspect, I've known kids since my own childhood who just couldn't live up to the parental expectations. A neighbor who commited suicide at age 18; the guy running the xerox machine at the local Kinko's whose older brother is a congressman and younger sister a surgeon; you all can fill in the blanks. These are real people whose parents did just what KatwKittens did and for most of the kids in the family it worked just great. But-there are kids who for whatever reasons, just don't handle the parental pressure/encouragement call it what you will they way their siblings do. To know one of these kids as an adult is humbling. Think Jimmy Carter and Ms Lilian and old what's his name.</p>

<p>Therefore, I hesitate to describe how we handled the OP's problem, only because I think parents need to think long and hard (and maybe get some dispassionate advice from a counselor or therapist) before they switch gears too quickly. There are kids who whether through a learning issue or depression or personality or whatever, just aren't going to work as hard as others with similar intelligence at this stage of life.</p>

<p>I work in Human Resources and I meet many, many late-bloomers who have successful corporate careers. Not everyone is finding a cure for cancer during the summer between junior and senior year of HS. Not everyone is trying to stuff yet one more AP onto their schedule. Lots of kids who end up happy and productive just "get by" in HS; the light goes on later. There are even highly successful MD's (to pick on a profession which seems to require a lot of drive by nursery school if you're going to get through the gauntlet) who didn't have a clue in HS or undergrad but who managed to turn it on in time to get into med school and have a stellar career after that.</p>

<p>I do think that encouraging (even if you have to force) reading in a kid is one tactic which worked for us. I never censored the books; I allowed bogus things like "a complete history of the NFL" to qualify as literature; my kids devoured biographies of third rate sports stars like there was no tomorrow. I worked full time and never could manage to get them to gymboree or piano lessons or karate but our trips to the library were sacred. Even during stages when my kids could not be bothered to open a back-pack at night to see if they had homework (let along DO the homework) they always had an interesting book sitting around which could absorb them. We figured that as long as they were reading-- regularly, then voraciously, at some point they'd find something interesting about the world even if it didn't happen to be integers or eskimos or whatever their teachers were doing that week.</p>

<p>And a sideline to songman-- you impressed me last year as one of the most loving, tuned in dads on CC. I think you should stop beating yourself up. It sounds like your son is doing great. I hire hundreds of kids just like him every year-- top of his class at a big state U; in his comfort zone but not pushing himself to win a Nobel Prize by the age of 23. He is so bright and is such a good writer, at some point he will find something he loves and will astound you then with his drive and passion.</p>

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<p>thanks for the kind words Blossom- I attempt everyday to be a loving dad, a tuned in dad is another story. I do not want to leave the impression with my fellow CC posters that I am not proud of my children. Both my son and daughter write poetry,short stories and essays far better than I ever could. They also write songs that are better than I can write- they astound me constantly with their artisitic skills.....They are academically smarter and better prepared than there parents were......We are proud that we helped them reach a higher academic level then we accomplished....most of all my son is the most honest,considerate person I have ever met next to my wife. He is a gentleman! Like a coach on an athletic team though,when the coach knows that a team member is capable of more,and the coach knows the positive reward that comes with doing so, then they push. My son is definitely a late bloomer.so was I, so maybe it is genetic- HA!</p>

<p>The delicate art of pushing your child without causing damage is the balance I need to learn.....</p>

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<p>Wonderful thoughts and advice here. Junebug, you say that your son can't seem to get organized with his notebooks and schoolwork in general. Are you sure that his less than stellar performance is due to lack of motivation? His teachers say he is a class clown, but what do they think of his writing, his attention, and his ability to learn the material? I was thinking after your post that an educational evaluation might be a good idea. So many kids have minor learning disabilities that are missed because kids are so good at compensating and hiding them, especially the bright ones. I think that if my sophomore were underperforming consistently, I'd want an evaluation. If he had proven he could do well but grades were taking a temporary dip, then it would seem more like motivation/effort issues.
Also, many boys are just late bloomers. Their brains do mature more slowly and unevenly in some cases (which is why an evaluation might be helpful) but by the time they are grown, their hidden potential often sufaces. Before I imposed any strict reward/withhold reward system, I think I'd want the evaluation of an educational psychologist.</p>

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<p><<< I used to blame the dilemma that you describe (that the two principals stated) on the feminization of the school system that has occurred in the last 25 years. Now being older and hopefully wiser, I think that plays a small part (10%?),but I think it is the parenting style and materialism of America(50%) and the influence of video games ,media and TV (25%?)that also played an important role in the dumbing down of boys. >>>></p>

<p>I think it is a combination of many problems: </p>

<p>Too many female teachers, not enough male teachers -- Gives the impression that learning, writing, reading classics, etc, is a "girl thing". </p>

<p>Feminization of school -- silly projects, "touchy feely" novels to read, silly "micro-managing" rules.</p>

<p>Fathers who brag about their son's athletic prowess but give simple praises about academic success. </p>

<p>Fathers who volunteer hours and hours to coaching their sons' teams but give minimal time towards their sons' academic life.</p>

<p>Coaches who demand daily practices.</p>

<p>Schools that make a bigger deal about athletic successes than academic successes.</p>

<p>Super-star/hero status given to athletes</p>

<p>Nintendo and 24/7 cable TV as distractions</p>

<p>TV shows that undermine adult authority</p>

<p>Just to name a few.............</p>

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<p>Along the path suggested by A.S.A.P. and blossom: IMO when there is a striking and persistent lack of motivation it is worth giving some thought to contacting a mental health professional and exploring the possibility that the child is experiencing depression.</p>

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<p>Lack of motivation could simply being unable to see the purpose of it all. What does your son want to be when he "grows up"? Will his chosen profession require college and grad school, etc??? Perhaps he just feels confused about what he wants to be and therefore wants to push the whole academic thing out of his mind -- to escape the discomfort. </p>

<p>If he doesn't feel a direction towards any particular profession/interest, you might have him answer questions on those surveys that help determine where his interests/gifts lie. </p>

<p>Is he creative?<br>
Is he artistic?<br>
Can he design things?<br>
Is he good with his hands?
Is he a "problem solver"<br>
Can he write well?<br>
Is he analytic?<br>
Does he have an interest in an area of science? computers?<br>
Is he good with people? Good with children?<br>
Does he have the "gift of gab"?<br>
Can he speak in front of a group?
Is he comfortable expressing his opinions?
Is he a good listener?
Is he patient?<br>
Does he like to work alone or in a group?
Does he like working indoors or outdoors
Does he like to travel or is he a "homebody"? </p>

<p>There are soooo many professions that hi school kids have never even thought exist!!!! Many kids just think of the "typical professions" : Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Teachers, Accountants, Nurses, etc and if none of those things immediately interest them, then they think they have nothing work for (or motivate them.) </p>

<p>The reason I have listed all these things is because if you can help him find a "profession goal", he will become more motivated to do well in the classes that will "get him there."</p>

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<p>are these usually done by school psychologist or a guidance counselor?</p>

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<p>Lots of incredibly thoughtful comments here; I especially loved reading Kat's and Blossom's (as always.)</p>

<p>I do have to disagree on the "femininization of school" argument. There were more female teachers when we were growing up than there are now. And as for silly projects, both my D and my S were driven nuts by them--there's nothing feminine about mindlessness.</p>

<p>Other than that caveat, I salute a lot of wonderful parents who are plainly raising wonderful kids.</p>

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<p>that last response was actually to what ASAP said. my thought about what you suggest about talking with him about what he might/could do is excellent and your questions are ones I'll use. (thanks for taking the time to think so imaginatively)</p>

<p>(I remember having a really great time asking him "would you rather break codes or write a novel? lead an archeological dig or find the cure for diabetes?") </p>

<p>That kind of discussion, plus what others have said about not pushing hard seem right for him/us. He is a really good kid, very respectful and kind. Thanks, eveyone.</p>