“Don’t forget many kids do things via their religious orgs or other available programs. Kids in cities use public transportation. I’m not saying it’s easy for all. But many lower SES kids are involved.”
This gets back to the concern I keep mentioning in the thread about UChicago seeking to boost low income applicants by dropping test scores. The low income applicants in areas that have high enough density to have decent public transportation have already mostly been reached by colleges; the low income students who haven’t been reached (like UChicago is trying to find) are the ones in low population density areas. Those areas do not have reasonable public transportation. And that’s one of the huge challenges for those kids having a profile of “good” ECs. If your parents can’t pick you up (and many of them can’t - they’re working), you have to ride the school bus home which means you can’t do after school clubs or sports, you miss out on many of the volunteering opportunities (what are you going to do -walk 10 miles to town?), etc. This is exactly why I think many of those students would not benefit from dropping test scores; ironically, the test scores may be one of the stronger parts of their app because it shows their potential even though they don’t have the ability to participate in many things.
Ask me how I know this… this was how I grew up. From my volunteering as an adult, it’s obvious to me that outside large cities, this is still the reality for low income students. They will be appealing in different ways than the things we talk about on CC, simply because they don’t have access to those things. Even if scholarships make it free, you can’t be on a sports team if you can’t get home after practice. You can’t do many of the volunteering opportunities because your parents can’t pick you up; even the ones that happen on your parents’ day off are tough because unlike many of the other middle and upper income parents, your parents can’t spend all day staying or volunteering with you because they need that one day to do other things, etc.
It can be tough to understand the challenges low income students in low population density areas face because so many of the things middle - upper income people and people in cities take for granted are simply not available.
Many schools do understand this problem and take it into consideration. My daughter’s school recently received a million dollar+ grant to help low income students in rural communities apply to the college… with the cost of attendance fully paid for.
I’d like to “double-like” milee30’s post #40. Rural low-income students face a real challenge, with transportation being a significant issue. (Of course, other students face challenges as well.)
I’d take the colleges’ comments about community service while at college as partly marketing and partly reflecting the existence of “service-learning” courses. Students who have done a lot of volunteer work in high school may be very interested in continuing in college. Typically, “service-learning” courses have a service component, but they are also academic courses, with purely academic components. A third possibility in some colleges involves non-credit volunteer work. In my opinion, it winds up being a lot easier to fit 100 hours of community service a year into a college program than into a high school program, during the school year. The college student is in a classroom a significantly smaller fraction of the time.
" Rural low-income students face a real challenge"
In terms of admissions, I think most colleges are pretty astute at factoring in those challenges when considering applications. They realize opportunities vary.
@twoinanddone “My kids had no transportation from their suburban high school. No public transportation at all except the school bus to take them home. However, they did community service at the high school or at the neighborhood middle school or elementary. One did reading to after school care kids, the other did a lot of Best Buddies stuff. They also had friends who went to the same activities that drove them.”
That is the issue with our district as well. It’s suburban, with no public transportation. 75% is low income, with some schools closer to 85%, with others more like 40% or less. My son is in the gifted academy in the poorest high school, and the differences between the haves and have-nots with regard to community service is pretty stark. The low income students do service - but mostly at the school sponsored events where lots of kids get involved. It’s good and it’s a worthy cause. They aren’t going to be getting lots of volunteer hours outside of the school or leading the big community events. Those tend to be run by kids with cars, or who have families that can help out a LOT with the running around and organizing. So if the college is looking for sheer number of hours volunteering - that’s one thing. If the college is looking for leadership and some unique and major impact, that’s going to be really, really hard for a kid without resources to accomplish in this geographic area, because you can’t get anywhere without transportation.
A lot of these kids don’t even have internet at home or their own cell phones.
“A lot of these kids don’t even have internet at home or their own cell phones.”
Which also makes it more difficult to be involved in volunteering or many of the ECs. Tougher to find out about opportunities and to be involved if organizers and others can’t easily contact you.
That’s the other point I made in the UChicago thread. Supposedly part of the initiative to attract low income applicants involves eliminating the interview and instead allowing applicants to submit a 2 minute video about themselves. How many low income applicants are going to have the equipment, software or experience to make a video?!? Oh sure, they can just go to the library… except, oh, we’re back to the whole no transportation thing.
I’m sure there are good intentions, but I just keep cringing when various well-meaning people keep blithely mentioning things that are as accessible to many low income students as a walk on the moon.
And we haven’t even begun to talk about the cultural challenges. So many of these students have done really impressive things within their income context, but unless they have outside guidance they’re often too embarrassed about those things to think they should mention them in a college app. They’re not going to want to talk about how they walked half a mile to scrounge school and project supplies out of an industrial dumpster, or how they pulled vines out of a nearby vacant lot to make Christmas wreaths to sell, or how they care for a drunk parent because they know how hick these things make them sound. Instead of understanding that these acts show their resilience, creativity and strength, they will worry that Fancy Snob U will not want to talk to a person who wouldn’t know which fork to use at a formal dinner, so they will keep their accomplishments to themselves because they worry about how they will be perceived.
But sure, tell these kids to just figure out how to get transportation and funding for volunteering and ECs, that they can simply film their application video on their smart phone. (Where is that eye roll emoticon again?)
IMO the OP was talking about college. So far in touring colleges with D20, the only school we’ve visited that has a community service requirement was Tulane. Ironically, it is what “upped” D’s interest in the school. The various opportunities were unique and sounded quite interesting (service dogs anyone), and we got the impression that the university will help match students in opportunities that reflected their majors.
Moderator’s Note:
The OP seems to refer to Volunteerism requirements as a College Student, not as a HS student trying to build up hours for an application. The posts so far seem to wander to both. Just try to keep to the OP’s topic at this point.
Thanks
Look, first you have to accept that not all top colleges are looking for a random selection of freshmen. And that the best kids who apply to top colleges and are admitted, truly are qualified, in many respects, including being activated. However/whatever, they have a spark. They know what it means to strive, that that encompasses more than homework. And many intend to continue this- and do- during college. Give them some credit. If you ARE the sort who can ultimately thrive and grow at a highly competitive college, it’s more than some dart thrown at their parent’s income level. Think about it.
If you want me to argue what I actually see, among these striving kids, we’d need a different thread.
My daughter is a rising freshman and her Honors College requires 30 hours by the end of her junior year. This really should not pose a problem for her. 15 hours can be off campus/community if necessary. I don’t have a problem with the requirement. She was able to juggle required volunteer hours in high school while training in dance 6 days/25 hours a week.
My son was a member of a D1 athletic team. The team members were involved with service projects – one was runing a race weekend that benefited a local literacy organization. The connection with the team was that a former member (now deceased) was very dedicated to this cause. They raised a lot of money annually for this cause. Some team members went to a local school and read to the first graders once a week, and ran some (sport) clinics for the students in the local middle and high schools. Every once in a while a teacher would call the coach and ask for help with something - like painting or moving furniture etc – and BOOM there’d be six team members there to help. I think they also helped with one-off needs in the community. So here you have a group of high performance athletes donating time and energy in a community service mode. They weren’t all spending 10 hours a week on community service, but they were giving back to the local community and making a difference.
My child is a Pell Grant kid, but I realize he will not get much merit $ at most of the top schools if going Ivy or similar. other top 25 schools have mentioned merit money and many scholarships, but I know I will have a check to write as well - REGARDLESS of that, I am concerned not that volunteering is required, but highly stressed - just finished tours at a few of the top 25 schools and some expounded on entire semesters devoted to community service. Again, I work for a non-profit (which is why S will get a Pell Grant) and we both do extreme amounts of volunteering routinely. Was just concerned at how many of these colleges stressed it and wondering if it was the new Bandwagon. S is in an IB school so CAS built in - no issues there, but several of these colleges stressed much more than the “fun” dance-a-thon, or weekly tutoring or reading to underprivileged kids. Perhaps I took it in a wrong light. And yes I do believe there are great potential job opportunities with volunteering - but would like for him to get off the Pell grant road as well.
Thanks for the insight twodaughters. I guess my focus was for freshman year in college. I would like my S to have a bit of fun and socializing time. He’s earned it. I perhaps mistook some of the info as less “fun-type” and more “work-like” volunteering, at least that was how it was presented. Sure don’t want too much volunteering early in college to be a turnoff. Thanks all.
What major or program? I can’t name a top college that expects a semester devoted to service (unless you mean a nursing or teaching practicum, maybe social work. There are some engineering programs that routinely have kids go work on projects, but that’s a vital part of the education, an opportunity, not a mandate.)
When they say it’s not the fun dance-a-thon (and believe me, I rant about that,) it refers more to pre-college. Once you get in, unless the particular program requires something, they don’t sit there evaluating that their college student did a fund raiser on campus instead of digging ditches somewhere. I work for a college that highly values community efforts and they have zero requirement, once there. They love what students do, brag about it, but do not make it a grad requirement, nor do they strong arm kids.
My kids were part of a specific national community service program- it required 70 hours/semester. It functioned as their work study (and was a reason D1 liked this college and they liked her background.) Though this college values “community partnerships,” offers engagement opportunities for kids who opt in (academic in nature, or experience, or pure service,) no pressure. MIne were involved with a program the college sponsored, for the national organization. Other kids did city internships or worked with the local hospital, etc. If they wished.
Right…while my kid’s Jesuit school wove community service into some courses and such…separate community service was not a requirement for graduation…at all. That being said…a LOT of students volunteered for various things. And some WERE fun.
My kid helped organize her school Relay for Life. She said it was a lot of fun.
As a professional school student, she continues to volunteer when she can…things like running the registration table at charity 5 K runs fo example.
Community service doesn’t have to be that time consuming. My older son spent one summer volunteering in the computer lab at the senior center. The younger son also spent part of the summer helping out - he taught an origami class, gave a couple of violin concerts and helped serve lunch. During the school year he helped tutor math which was funny because he was not a tippy top math student, but he felt it really helped reinforce the math for him.
I guess that was never our experience. Certainly there were OPTIONS at schools we visited to do this, and schools would brag about those options because to some parents & students it would be very appealing. But can you please name the schools where you feel it is somehow required? My kids both did some volunteering in college, but the one at the more rigorous school didn’t really do it until senior year. The other was at a bit less rigorous school, and was very adept at juggling a part time job, her school work, and some volunteer work that she enjoyed. But we didn’t bump into any schools that required volunteering.
@Spurredon Yes I would like to know which colleges that you felt the requirement. I have been on college tours of many of the Top 20 and have never heard the community service/volunteer requirement as part of attending or going ot that school. It is talked about in terms of getting involved on campus in something that a kid may want. I would love to know the colleges that you toured that you came away with this message. Definitely not something I have ever heard, or come away with feeling after a college tour.
Freshman year is a time to go slowly with commitments outside of academics. Students then get a feel for their time management as well as needs for down or social time.
Some students need to work, whether through work-study or outside of school. Some schools don’t require this of kids with financial aid, to give them time to adjust to college.
Overall, for the other years, interning or volunteering can be a great way to build both job skills and a resume.In fact, for a kid majoring in the humanities, those extracurriculars can be extremely important in clarifying a path.