Any other TX school compares to UT?

Colleges and Universities A-Z The University of Texas at Austin
21

<p>If tuition cost is a key consideration, check out state supported schools in Louisiana and Oklahoma as well. They offer in-state tuition to students from Texas. LSU and OU, in particular, are also very generous with scholarships to students from Texas. </p>

<p>Before your son applies to UT, have him meet w/ an academic advisor in the engineering school. I believe community college credits are treated differently for freshmen vs transfers. Freshmen may have a choice of what credits go on their transcript whereas all transferees' credit hours will appear on their transcript.</p>

<p>This may make a difference as to whether he will qualify for a $1000 tuition rebate for attempting no more than three hours over what is required for his degree.</p>

22

<p>First, a disclaimer: I work for an educational testing company. I see what goes on, on the inside. I’ve seen gifted children failing the reading tests because they went off on a tangent (those creative little minds!) and other kids held back a year due to an error in scoring. I’m not speaking of the company I work for, necessarily, but the industry in general. Just this past year CollegeBoards made an error on SAT scoring and many kids got rejected/accepted at colleges erroneously. Maybe that’s why I am a bit cynical about relying on testing to make or break something as important as a college admission.</p>

<p>OK, now that you know where I’m coming from…</p>

<p>Very good question about the SAT. I have been trying to get a clear answer on that. I have spoken with at least 4 different people in admissions and they all told me the same thing – UT absolutely does NOT look at SAT scores or high school transcripts when evaluating transfer students. I then asked, ‘well, would it give him an advantage if he did have the SAT even though he doesn’t need it?’ to which they emphatically replied ‘NO’ and repeated again that they won’t even look at it!</p>

<p>The only exception is PLAN II – they look at everything. </p>

<p>We had just decided that there was no point in stressing out over the SAT if it was totally unnecessary, and then he found out about PLAN II and that threw a monkey wrench into our neat little plans. He scored 99% in language on the PSAT, with an overall of 97%, and that was in the midst of a math anxiety episode (which has since been overcome, thankfully) so I’m sure he would do well on the SAT. He’s an excellent writer so the essay isn’t a problem. But, what does ‘well’ mean? When I think of the SAT, I think of all those parents who pay expensive tutors and ‘teach to the test’ so their kids will ace the test. And then I think of all the errors that occur in the testing industry, and then I think of how much is at stake and what if he doesn’t sleep well the night before, and what if his girlfriend dumps him the day before, stuff like that. It just seems like taking the test could potentially override all that’s he’s worked so hard for. I would rather he be judged according to what he’s been achieving consistently, rather than an isolated 3.5 hours in time on a certain day. He’s already in a fairly good position, and I’m just not sure I want to rock the boat.</p>

<p>My son has a job and I don’t really see him spending every waking moment prepping for a test he doesn’t even need. So, whatever score he gets would be the real thing – representative of the real him and not some inflated semblance of perfection as a result of prepping.</p>

<p>So, he should probably do well, but maybe not as well as equally smart kids with a lot of prepping (and maybe no job and no girlfriend). Bottom line is, I’d rather he not take it at all than take it and have it backfire on him. Once he takes it, the colleges have access to the results, so he can’t just decide to ignore the score if it’s not stellar, right? In other words, can he pick and choose whether to report the score based on how high it is? </p>

<p>One of the admissions officers told me that the reason they look at SAT scores of freshman is to get an indication of how they will probably perform in college. But, transfer students are already in college, so they no longer care about how they MIGHT do – they now have the data they need to see how they actually ARE doing. It’s a completely different set of criteria and mindset.</p>

<p>The ONLY reason for my son to take the SAT would be to better his odds for PLAN II. He may decide to do that, but it will be up to him. I think I would rather he put his energy into writing essays for scholarships. It seems to me that it would be a mistake to try to conform into a mold just to get into PLAN II, when that is very iffy anyway, and fancy packaging seems to be against the very spirit of what PLAN II is all about.</p>

<p>I am, however, open to other points of view! I am still trying to sort this all out and decide how to best advise him, since I am, effectively, the only guidance counselor he has (having been homeschooled). The SAC people are helpful only up to a point.</p>

23

<p>I think he's pretty much ruled out engineering in favor of Natural Sciences, but he did attend the Engineering Honors Colloquim this past summer, and found out what the requirements are. (that's when he decided that he doesn't want to work for the govt, a petroleum company or NASA, which is where most of the engineering jobs are, except for the medical engineering, which he has no interest in)</p>

<p>It used to be 24 hours to be considered transfer, but starting in 2007 it's 30. Engineering requires at least Calc I & II - they have so many applicants with Calc that they turn many away and were trying to raise the bar to Natural Sciences, since most Engineering rejects list N.S. as their 2nd choice. They told him at the Colloquium that NS now requires all of the calc too, but the admission officer told me that's not true - they pushed for it but it got voted down.</p>

<p>So, to be 'in the running' the student would need:</p>

<p>Engineering: calc I & II (or all 3 if it's the 3-semester course) AND Physics I & II</p>

<p>Natural Sciences: Calc I (of the 3-part course) and Physics I & II.</p>

<p>PLAN II - most applicants do have all of calc and both physics. Not required, but realistically they should have most of it. Must have at least Calc I to be in the running.</p>

<p>I asked if the student would have an edge if s/he has all of the calc sequence when applying to NS and the answer was an emphatic NO. this from the HEAD of admissions! She said absolutely they do NOT penalize the kid for not having all of calc, for admissions to NS. (but they DO need all of calc to engineering)</p>

<p>Re the hours: What makes a student a transfer instead of a freshman is having ANY college credit at all! (This from the admissions office as well.) so my son has no choice but to apply as a transfer.</p>

<p>However, he does have a choice regarding the dual-credit hours ONLY - he could choose to count those as ONLY high school credit, in which case he could apply as a freshman, assuming he didn't have any additional hours beyond the 27-hour dual-credit limit. In his case, he will have additional hours this fall, so that option would be negated. Anyway I see absolutely no point in not counting college credit. What would be the point in that? The only benefit I could see would be that some scholarships are for freshmen only, but then, if the hours all count, I don't have to pay as much overall because he won't attend as long.</p>

<p>I think overall the fact that he already has college credit when he's supposed to be only in 12th grade SHOULD be an advantage, I would hope.</p>

24

<p>"I see absolutely no point in not counting college credit. What would be the point in that? "</p>

<p>College credit is only worth counting if it applies toward your degree program. If it doesn't, it could disqualify you for the $1000 tuition rebate for attempting more than three hours over what is required for the degree program.</p>

25

<p>Lealdragon,</p>

<p>I think you have good reasons for your advice to your son. I happen to be a fan of taking the SAT - regardless of whether it helps or hurts one's chances for admission - because if your son wants to go to graduate school he will have to take the GRE, MCAT, or LSAT. It's helpful to have a history of taking tests like this, under pressure, even after a bad night's sleep or after breaking up with a girlfriend. </p>

<p>Years ago, when I took the LSAT (long before there were LSAT prep tests or programs), I took it as practice for the Foreign Service Entrance Exam. These types of tests are relatively uniform and, like almost everything else in life, you do better if you practice. Of course, in today's world you can easily take practice tests and it may be that you and your son aren't overly concerned about test anxiety or testing in real world conditions.</p>

26

<p>Rice in Houston and Trinity University in San Antonio certainly compare. They are much smaller, but are great schools.</p>

27

<p>Regarding housing: we're going with co-op housing. We've checked them out and they seem to offer some definite advantages over dorms, such as private rooms at much lower cost, and a close-knit social atmosphere. Some are very nice and some not so nice. Some have studious environments and others are totally party houses. My son is on the list for his top choice, but his 2nd choice doesn't even start taking applications for fal 07 til spring. The student has to do about 4 hours of chores per week, which is how they are able to offer the cheaper cost. My son spent 4 nights in Jester during the Honors Colloquium and didn't like it. He said it was way too noisy, among other things.</p>

28

<p>I'm thinking that if he doesn't get into UT Austin, it might not be worth it to pay all that $$ so he can go somewhere else if it's not really where he wants to be. Maybe just going to UTSA (since it is, after all, right here) for 1 year then transfer to Austin. That way he could still have 2 years there. So, what's it like transferring from UTSA to UT Austin? I've heard horror stories that sometimes people were accepted to Austin but there wasn't room so they were promised they could transfer after going to UTSA for awhile but then they never did get in. I think those were people who had actually been accepted to Austin, though, as opposed to going to UTSA then transferring. Not sure what the exact story was. Anyone know anything about that?</p>

29

<p>Texas A&M not only "compares", its better in a lot of fields and a lot less expensive. Its got a much better communal spirit, more student camaraderie, better job networking, etc. If you and he are so "open minded", then why are you buying into baseless stereotypes and hasty generalizations about College Station when you havent even visited it first hand?</p>

30

<p>????</p>

<p>From collegeboard.com:</p>

<p>Texas A&M estimated annual cost: $17,000/yr.
University of Texas estimated annual cost: $20,000/yr.</p>

<p>That's not too huge of a difference...</p>

<p>I would agree that "some" fields are better than UT at A&M, but a lot? In most areas, UT is quite a bit better than A&M. Economics, Business, Engineering, Law, Medicine (at its medical branches) just to name a few. I've never seen a ranking that had A&M higher than UT and most of the time UT is ranked a good deal higher than A&M. </p>

<p>Please explain...</p>

31

<p>Vyse,</p>

<p>I agree that A&M is a great school, and it is the academic equal of or better than UT-Austin in several subjects. However, if I recall correctly, Lealdragon's son is liberal and she doesn't think he will be comfortable at A&M.</p>

32

<ol>
<li><p>$3000 is already a pretty sizable chunk of cash, but the figure expands when you realize that A&M is better with both FA and merit scholarships. </p></li>
<li><p><a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html&lt;/a> A&M is ahead of texas here. These rankings are based on research, service and social mobility. Texas is ahead of A&M on US News in terms of academic prestige, but its also in the top 5 in Princeton Review's college guide for "students who never study". So it makes you wonder how beneficial the education really is.</p></li>
<li><p>UT does have some outstanding programs, but a lot of them are no use to the majority of students attending. Take McCombs business for example. Instead of using a holistic review for admittance, they just go straight off of class rank, and if you're not in like the top 3% of your class, you can forget it. So many aspiring business students at texas are stuck in liberal arts programs trying to transfer and graduate in 5-6 years when they could have gone to Texas A&M Mays Business school or SMU Cox business school, received a comparable high quality business education, and got done in 4 years.</p></li>
</ol>

33

<p>Yeah I did remember that Washington Monthly had them ranked higher, but they create their list quite differently from most others. I'm talking a/b US News, The Times Higher Education ranking, and the Shanghai Jiao Tong ranking. Princeton Review also ranked UT the #1 party school in the nation (one reason I'm applying to many other places and hope not to go to UT) along with #2 for the use of hard liquor. lol. </p>

<p>I don't really know about the scholarships, but I do know that A&M only has about a $5 billion endowment systemwide (including all the little A&Ms) whereas UT Austin has a $6 billion endowment in just that one campus ($15 billion systemwide). So I don't really see where UT wouldn't be able to provide a lot of financial aid as well, especially since A&M's student population is gaining on UT every year. But then again I haven't applied for aid to either, so I don't have any personal experience. </p>

<p>As far as the programs, yes McCombs is not easy to get into and that is a stupid rule. But that doesn't negate the fact that it is generally considered to be a top 10 program (and top 5 in many specialties as well as #1 in accounting). Mays is easier to get into, but that is because it's not McCombs. When people talk a/b the best business schools in the nation, McCombs may get thrown in there (depending on who you're talkin to) but no one ever says Mays. It's just not comparable in my opinion, so yeah if you can't get into McCombs (b/c so many ppl want to go there) you could go to Mays, but you're not getting the same quality of education and people know that you didn't have to work your a** off to get accepted there either. </p>

<p>"UT does have some outstanding programs, but a lot of them are no use to the majority of students attending."</p>

<p>I don't really understand this though. It still doesn't really answer my question. What programs are you thinking of that A&M is better than UT at? I'm not trying to say it's a bad school (I know many smart ppl in my high school that went there) but I still think it has a ways to go. The majority of people I know attending UT are Econ, Engineering, or Business majors and I know that the first two majors are not hard to get accepted into. They're still getting a nationally acclaimed degree for in-state tuition. I'm not saying they can't also get a good education at A&M, but when people talk about the best schools for these programs in the nation, UT is consistently brought up whereas I've never heard A&M mentioned outside of Texas. It's always in the shadow of UT, which is in the shadow of Rice. :D</p>

34

<p>Brand,</p>

<p>I'm not trying to barge in on your discussion with Vyse but A&M has a top-quality College of Veterinary Medicine that offers a graduate veterinary degree and an undergraduate degree in biomedical sciences (<a href="http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/bims/)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/bims/)&lt;/a>. Thus, for undergraduates who know they want to be veterinarians, A&M is a better UG choice than UT. (I haven't looked into how an A&M UG degree affects the likelihod of acceptance into the graduate program. I'm only considering the access to good professors and exposure to graduate students, research projects, opportunities for internships, and other benefits.)</p>

<p>In addition, I think A&M's engineering program is similarly ranked to UT's engineering school. There may be other comparable programs but I'm not familiar enough with A&M or UT to compare them, except that UT has nationally ranked departments in pharmacy, business, communications, and law that aren't matched by A&M.</p>

35

<p>No problem DRJ4 I understand that A&M has some excellent programs in certain fields, I just don't agree with Vyse that A&M is better than UT in a lot of fields. I don't attend either university (and hope not to attend UT - goin for Chicago) so I just take it how I see it. The majority of my friends (who were most all in the top 20% of the class and included the val) went to A&M and many tried at UT but were rejected. A&M is a good school, but I think that even the current administration realizes that A&M is not the best public school in the state.</p>

<p>"Texas A&M University has an enrollment of 44,647 students pursuing degrees in 10 academic colleges, which currently makes it the eighth largest university in the United States. Under the leadership of university president Dr. Robert M. Gates, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, the university has continued progress under the "Vision 2020" plan. Vision 2020 serves as an aggressive financial focus on four areas of improvement, namely 1) student diversity, 2) faculty reinvestment, 3) space allocation, and 4) improving the undergraduate and graduate education experience.[8] Vision 2020's overall goal is to make Texas A&M one of the top 10 public universities in the United States by the year 2020."</p>

<p>In the case of Engineering, A&M has a well-regarded program, but UT's is usually considered top 10 in the nation (or just shy of it). I'm just making the distinctions that I've noticed after studying both schools and realizing that UT was the best public school in my state (particularly in my major - business) and thus the only public school that I'll be applying to.</p>

36

<p>A&M tops UT in at least half the categories. I know that aerospace engineering and petroleum engineering (where the money is in the work force) departments are exceptional.</p>

37

<p>Petroleum? A&M may be exceptional but is it really a category to consider when determining which one is regarded as better? From the UT Engineering page:</p>

<p>2nd Petroleum and Geosystems (last available ranking in 2003)</p>

<p>So what...was A&M #1? And at that point, I don't really think it matters so much :D</p>

<p>Here's the link and the rest of the stuff: <a href="http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/whyut/academics/engineering/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/whyut/academics/engineering/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Rankings (2006 U.S. News and World Report)
12th overall in graduate quality
11th overall in undergraduate education
6th overall among public institutions
Departmental Program Rankings (2006 U.S. News and World Report)
9th Aerospace
6th Chemical
4th Civil
7th Computer
11th Electrical/Electronics
4th Environmental
10th Mechanical
2nd Petroleum and Geosystems (last available ranking in 2003)</p>

<p>I don't have that kind of info for A&M (tried to find it) but I would imagine that it is not better in more than half of those fields given the already high positions held by UT.</p>

<p>Edit: but I'm going to stop hijacking this lady's thread. I just had to explain to those reading (and that might not know) that the majority of people I know consider UT the best public institution in Texas and see A&M as gaining, but not yet there. I'll end on that note.</p>

38

<p>As a matter of fact, texas A&M's undergraduate petroleum engineering program is ranked #1 in the nation: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A&M_University#Rankings%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A&M_University#Rankings&lt;/a> </p>

<p>The Dwight Look college of Engineering is ranked 14th nationally and the school is rated as the best value in the state of texas, and 25th best value in the country.</p>

<p>In addition, in the category of "unrankables", Texas A&M is way more friendly than UT, has more school spirit, more traditions, and is a much easier place for a freshman to get acclimated due to the outsanding fish camp program.</p>

<p>Obviously Im biased, but I hate everyone thinking UT is automatically the better fit for everyone based on some magazine's ranking. Most people here visted here and UT before choosing and decided they'd like it here better.</p>

39

<p>"As a matter of fact, texas A&M's undergraduate petroleum engineering program is ranked #1 in the nation"</p>

<p>Lol well ok then. That IS impressive, but it's not like UT can't even compare. #2 ain't bad.</p>

<p>UT School of Engineering is ranked 11th nationally...so yeah we're just splitting hairs with this engineering thing.</p>

<p>"In addition, in the category of "unrankables", Texas A&M is way more friendly than UT, has more school spirit, more traditions, and is a much easier place for a freshman to get acclimated due to the outsanding fish camp program."</p>

<p>The traditions could be viewed as a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to. That is one of the main reasons I didn't consider A&M. It just depends on what kind of person you are. I am interested in moving away from home and having a lot of freedom in college, as well as not feeling like a part of the crowd. A&M is a nice, happy family, but some people just don't want to salute a statue every time they walk by it. </p>

<p>"Obviously Im biased, but I hate everyone thinking UT is automatically the better fit for everyone based on some magazine's ranking. Most people here visted here and UT before choosing and decided they'd like it here better."</p>

<p>Obviously, but so am I. I don't attend either, but I've visited A&M and it was too close to home and was in the middle of nowhere. The school spirit was a turnoff for me as well as the fact that the school is quite conservative. UT on the other hand is about 2-3 hours away, located in the state capitol, and has a very liberal attitude. They don't have "keep austin weird" shirts for nothing. I agree with Vyse that if you're lookin at them, visit them and see what they are actually like. Rankings never tell the whole story, and the difference (at least in engineering) is minimal. Overall though, UT has consistently ranked as the best public university in the state and is considered one of the "public ivies," whereas A&M may one day deserve that title (and may equal UT in national recognition), I still believe it has a ways to go.</p>

<p>But this is basically a pointless debate since the OP said her son visited both and didn't like the conservative feeling of A&M. Just like me.</p>

40

<p>UT is actually pretty conservative too, but nowhere near the like of A&M, Baylor and tech.</p>