Any other TX school compares to UT?

lealdragon · September 10, 2006, 6:34pm

<...at that point, I don't really think it matters so much>

I'm finding this really amusing. Well said - honestly, does it really matter? I mean, obviously I want my son to get good academics, but that isn't the ONLY factor here in making our decision. I mean, we are talking about up to 4 YEARS of his life! I don't just want him to be able to get a good job - I want him to be HAPPY!

You know how people have fond memories of their college years? Well, I want my son to have fond memories. I want him to flourish and expand his thinking, not be faced with dogma yet again.

One of the 'Best Colleges' books I have says something to the effect of 'We're really splitting hairs here - ALL of the 350 or so colleges listed in this book are top-notch - some are better in some degrees while others are known for others, but academically they are ALL excellent, or they wouldn't be listed in this book, so it's really a matter of finding which one suits you the best.'

So, no offense to the A&M person, but we HAVE actually spent a weekend there, as well as talking to several families who decided on A&M BECAUSE of its conservatism, and we just know it's not the school for my son. Just like we know that BYU is not a good fit either, even though it's a perfect fit for one of our friends who happens to be LDS and likes boys with clean-cut hair and white shirts and ties. Nothing wrong with that at all! But my son has long hair and likes heavy metal music. Didn't seem to be much of a music scene at College Station, so I just know that he wouldn't be happy there, for that reason alone! One of the things he loves about Austin is that you can't walk down the street without being handed a leaflet about some political activism or human-rights cause. That's his passion and a big part of why he has chosen UT, and why no other Texas school seems to come close.

Please don't think I am closed-minded about it - it's really just a personality thing, ok?

Thanks, DRJ - yes my son is rather liberal-leaning. When we visit Austin, he feels at home. He doesn't mind if people are gay, hippies, Goth, or have purple hair, as long as they are interesting and have kind spirits. When we visited College Station, we did not notice much diversity, much less political activism. A&M seems to be a wonderful place for religious conservatives, but my son is not a religious conservative. If I have made this assessment prematurely, then please by all means do enlighten me!

So, we are not considering A&M, so the comparisons are all irrelevant to us. (However, I'm sure others on this forum would find them useful, and for those I will add that my son's Robotics teacher, a mechanical engineer, attended both and said both were excellent, but one focused more on research than the other. I forgot which was which, though. Oh, and his wife attended both UT and Rice, and a similar comparison was made.)

brand_182 · September 10, 2006, 6:36pm

"If I have made this assessment prematurely, then please by all means do enlighten me!"

Haha...no you haven't. You hit the nail on the head. But I would like to say to Vyse that while our opinions differ, you're one of the few people I've debated something with on CC that didn't end up making the conversation immature or personal. I admire that.

lealdragon · September 10, 2006, 6:39pm

To the person who said you wouldn't go to UT because it is top-ranked as a 'party-school':

I wouldn't be so quick to rule out UT just because of its party-school reputation. I mentioned this on another thread, but I'll say it again briefly: UT is large enough that it accomodates all sorts of subcultures. We visited about 10 of the housing co-ops, and we found that each one has its own distinct personality:

21st Street is a party house. Alcohol and drugs abound, and it's common for the weekend parties to get busted. No way my son is living there, even though the 2-level suites are really nice.

In contrast, there are Laurel and Seneca which are more studius.

Then, there is Royal, which has health-nut vegetarians - biggest complaint from the party people is their LACK of parties!

And several that are in-between.

My son has chosen Seneca because it has mostly upper-classmen and therefore more studious, and is vegetarian, but has more socializing than Royal but without the wild drug parties like some of the others.

Point being, that you can find a suitable environment to meet your needs. Just because UT is #1 for parties does not mean that the whole place is one big party! Obviously SOME people must be getting some studying done, or it wouldn't be ranked as high as it is! Sure, there are plenty of partiers at UT, but there are plenty of serious students too. Like the book said, 'Most of the people partying are the Liberal Arts students - the Engineering students don't have time to party.'

UT is just so huge that things tend to get blown out of proportion. Bigger school, bigger parties. But that doesn't mean you HAVE to be involved in that. Hey, UT is also known for its football team - but guess what? My son detests football, I mean has ZERO interest in it. He will be at UT but will NEVER have anything to do with that scene at all!

Now, here's an interesting tidbit: My son's friend (the one I mentioned in that other thread) got accepted to Rice. He never even considered UT because his dad had passed up a chance to go to Rice and told his son that Rice was for people with 'higher aspirations' whereas UT was a 'party school.' We felt that was unfair and maybe a little snooty; it seemed that my son was being looked down upon for his choice, which bothered him at the time.

But here's the kicker: his friend spent one year at Rice and it didn't work out (but that's another story.) He said by the very FIRST week he had been offered every drug under the sun, and the alcohol was flowing freely. In fact, that very same book about the best colleges described UT as being 'diverse, with many subcultures, the party culture being but one of many' whereas Rice was described as being overall alcoholic! It even said that the only way to get Rice students to get involved in any sort of activism was to offer them alcohol.

OK, so which school has the party reputation? UT. But which school realistically has more partying going on across the board? Who knows whether that could ever be ascertained. But one thing's for sure: our friend certainly did NOT avoid the drugs/alcohol by choosing a 'presigious' school like Rice!

Rice does not have a party reputation, and that is one of the reasons our friends chose Rice over UT. Yet, if anything he was exposed to MORE partying at Rice, because it was EVERYWHERE. There was no escaping it. Whereas, UT is so huge that maybe he could have found a different cluster of friends or a different subculture to get involved with (like maybe the straightedge vegetarians, for example).

lealdragon · September 10, 2006, 6:49pm

This is a generalization. My son decided on UT a good 2 years ago, and I just started looking at college books/rankings etc only in the past year - in fact, I wish I had known about UT's rankings last year when his friend told him that going to UT meant he lacked 'aspiration'! It would have come in handy!

My son decided on UT because we've been taking him to Barton Springs since he was a toddler, so he's been in Austin quite a bit. It's always a treat to go to a concert or to Whole Foods or whatever - it's just such a cool place! Then, to find out that UT is actually a great school too, well, that just clinched it!

We live in San Antonio, which has 6 large universties and about another 6 junior colleges. Yet, none of these interest him, even though we'd save a bundle of cash if he lived at home. Anyway, I want him to have the experience of being on his own. Yet, Austin is so close that we'd be available if needed. I see no point in going more into debt to send him out-of-state when we have an excellent school virtually in our back yard.

Anyway, you said 'Most people visit both and decide on A&M' - I don't know what you're basing that on, but it's irrelevant. It all depends on who constitutes the 'most' - for example, if you were to visit a Republican rally and take a survey, you could then ascertain that 'most' people surveyed vote Republican. It means nothing, to be honest.

And, in all fairness, I never said that UT is the best choice for 'everyone' - just for my son.

That may be the general tone of this forum, but then, remember that we ARE in a UT-designated area of the forum! Go to the Rice forum and everyone there will likely think Rice is the best. Same for A&M.

lealdragon · September 10, 2006, 6:51pm

That about sums it up!

Funny, the out-of-state schools that my son was interested in (if we had the $$) were all those that sounded the most like UT, with cities the most like Austin.

Vyse · September 10, 2006, 7:15pm

By "here", I meant texas A&M students. I am one, and I was just pointing out that in most cases we're not the safety destination for students who cant get into UT. Lots of students choose here because they think its a better fit despite what U.S. News has to say. In my high school, our top quarter consisted of 18 students. 8 of them chose Texas A&M and only 1 chose Texas.

As for political activism, Im not sure where you got your info, but this campus is pretty full of it. Ive got perturbed occasionally from people bothering me with it when Im in a rush. We also have atheist/agnostic organizations, vegetarian organizations, wiccan organizations, etc. We are more conservative than texas, and we dont hide it, but its not the "Wear church clothes to class, never drink, and remembering that rock music is the devil" type of consertivism you seem to think it is. That would be baylor.

If you think Texas is a better fit for your son, great. Im just trying to combat some of the misconceptions that college station is some backwoodsy fundamental Christian school people here seem to have.

lealdragon · September 10, 2006, 7:56pm

Wow, Wiccans at A&M??? Now that IS news! You are right; I definitely thought that Wiccans, gays, lefties, etc would not be found at A&M. (I'm not saying my son is any of those - he's actually not, except the leftie - I am just using those as examples)

Thanks so much for setting the record straight!

Now, about Baylor...maybe we need to rethink that one too...are you SURE it's that conservative? Have you actually visited it? (sorry, couldn't resist! haha) ;-)

Vyse · September 10, 2006, 8:00pm

Im not saying theyre a minority, but at the open house for student organizations, I saw booths for GLBTA ( gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered aggies), atheist/agnostics, islamists, and pagans.

Yes, we are a conservative school, but with a student body of 44,000, there's all types of people. If you go down here looking for people with similar beliefs, youre going to find them, because even if only 5% shares your belief set, thats a pool of over 2000 people.

m1817 · September 10, 2006, 10:36pm

"the out-of-state schools that my son was interested in (if we had the $$) were all those that sounded the most like UT, with cities the most like Austin."

Getting back to the OP, if you would list some of those schools, it would give people on this thread a better idea about what schools to suggest.

anxiousmom · September 11, 2006, 9:02pm

Excuse me, Lealdragon, but...
[quote]
Rice does not have a party reputation, and that is one of the reasons our friends chose Rice over UT. Yet, if anything he was exposed to MORE partying at Rice, because it was EVERYWHERE. There was no escaping it

[/quote]
I'm sorry your friend's son had alchohol problems and dropped out of Rice, but if you look at the retention and graduation statistics, you'll find that very few do. There are plenty of people at Rice who don't drink, or drink very lightly - and there are plenty of places and events where people can "escape" it, and/or coexist peacefully with it. It sounds to me like you are taking one (unsuccessful) student's information, and extrapolating it to the whole campus.
[quote]
He said by the very FIRST week he had been offered every drug under the sun, and the alcohol was flowing freely

[/quote]
Not. The first week is O-week, and it is completely dry. There are some kids who are drawn to alcohol and end up having problems; there are kids who just aren't mature enough for college, even if they are academically capable of handling it. It sounds like your son's friend was one of those. I do know that Rice students study a heck of a lot.... and work really hard... so let's not paint Rice with such a negative brush.... My very light-drinking hard-working daughter is getting an EXCELLENT education at a school that provides incredible attention from professors and terrific opportunities for all who attend.

lealdragon · September 11, 2006, 10:21pm

Whew! First I got accused of judging A&M prematurely and now the same thing is happening with my comments about Rice. Maybe I should get off here! =P

Please allow me to clarify a few things:

-My son's friend actually did not get involved with alcohol or drugs, although he did develop a caffeine habit.

-The 'first week' was actually something called 'Rice weekend' - whatever that is. If I remember correctly, I think it was before school actually started, but I'm not 100% sure on that. He did, however, say that alcohol was pretty freely available at pretty much all times.

-I was only relaying one person's experience. Just as I said that not ALL UT students party, obviously not ALL Rice students drink, and I'm sorry if I implied that. I was merely trying to make the point that drinking/drugging goes on even at schools that don't necessarily have a 'party' reputation. I was just using Rice as an example. I've got nothing against Rice.

-My son's friend tells me more than he does his own parents. And, obviously, he tells my son more than he tells me! And, my son then tells me a lot of that! So, I would venture to say that it is common for kids to NOT tell their parents all the sordid details of just how much partying goes on. Please don't misunderstand -I'm NOT saying anything about YOUR daughter - ok! I just mean in general! My point is that there is no reason for me to doubt my son's friend's story - it's not like he'd get in any trouble by telling my son, or even me, the truth. I do, in all honesty, feel a tiny bit of amazement that you seem to imply your daughter's account is somehow more 'true' than my son's friend's story. Just because this friend did not succeed at Rice does not mean it was due to drugs or alcohol. You are making an assumption there when you don't know anything at all about what happened. And, it's really not my place to tell any of the details. All I said was that it didn't work out. I'm not going to say why, so please don't assume. And, I would have to add that any parent who believes that just because the school claims to be 'dry' that the kids don't find a way to find alcohol/drugs anyway...well, sorry, but that is naive.

-And, lastly, I am basing all this about Rice not only on this one story, but on what I read in the '350 Best Colleges' or one such book (forgot which one, but I can look it up if anyone's interested) - I was quite surprised to see how much the word 'alcohol' was mentioned - quite a lot more in the Rice section than in the UT section. I am NOT implying that either one is more or less a 'party school' than the other - again, I agree that students can be 'dry' or even straightedge and studious at either! In fact, that is precisely my point - I think all this judging which school is a 'party school' is completely off-base and should not even be a determining factor in making one's decision - because ultimately it is up the to student to resist the temptation to do things s/he doesn't want to do. Just as the A&M person gets annoyed when people think A&M is redneck/conservative, so do I find it amusing and ironic that people think UT is such a party school and other schools aren't.

Bottom line is that I think ALL colleges (well, except maybe BYU <smile>) have their share of partying.</smile>

Sorry if I offended anyone. Not intended!

Now let's all take a nice deep breath.... =)

anxiousmom · September 11, 2006, 11:28pm

[quote]
And, I would have to add that any parent who believes that just because the school claims to be 'dry' that the kids don't find a way to find alcohol/drugs anyway...well, sorry, but that is naive.

[/quote]
I agree totally. Good thing I'm not naive. However, O-week is dry. Rice Weekend is not.
And I don't mean to offend you either - but you pretty much implied that Rice IS a total alchoholic party school, and you quoted a book....(and, yes please, I'd love the name and exact citation).

[quote]
In fact, that very same book about the best colleges described UT as being 'diverse, with many subcultures, the party culture being but one of many' whereas Rice was described as being overall alcoholic!

[/quote]

[quote]
I do, in all honesty, feel a tiny bit of amazement that you seem to imply your daughter's account is somehow more 'true' than my son's friend's story.

[/quote]
I've been to Rice campus numerous times, and have hosted Dd friends from Rice several time, personally know many Rice graduates, and my Dad taught there. I guess it depends on your perspective as to whose story is "truer". I'm not denying that students at Rice drink, (although other drug use is low) - but painting the school as all about alcohol is like saying that UT is all about the Football.

lealdragon · September 12, 2006, 12:29am

I'm glad we can discuss this amicably!

I still feel that I didn't convey my point. I honestly did not mean to imply that Rice was 'totally alcoholic' and once again I apologize for coming across that way.

In fact, my point was actually quite the contrary - I was trying to convey that even the 'party schools' have straightedge subcultures, AND even the schools that do NOT have a reputation of being party schools (Rice being but an example) DO have drugs and alcohol aplenty. You are right - to say that Rice is ALL alcoholic is just like saying UT is ALL partying. (but that is not what I said.) It works both ways!

I think we all tend to be a bit defensive, myself included. I admit that I may have picked on Rice because my son effectively got snubbed. It was exactly what the A&M person described when s/he said s/he resented people implying that the ONLY reason to go to A&M was if one was rejected by UT. Likewise, I guess I felt that sort of attitude from my son's friend's parents when they said that UT students 'were just into partying' and 'had no aspirations.' Our sons are pretty evenly matched intellectually, were both homeschooled, and have been best friends since they were 10 years old, and I felt that they did not respect my son's choice. So, I confess that any residual resentment I may have towards them might have colored my posting on this forum. Sorry!

The A&M person hit the nail on the head - some people may choose A&M, or UT, or any school, because it really is their first choice! Regardless of rankings or reputation, but simply because it is a good match!

My son would undoubtedly still choose UT over Rice, even if $$ were not an issue, simply because he likes Austin better than Houston. That's nothing against Rice.

I guess my main point here is that I really don't think any school is all THAT much better than any other, when we have already narrowed down the list to the top schools. By that time it really boils down to what's best for that particular student, and, most of all, will s/he be happy and flourish there?

I will look up that book and post the title, along with the out-of-state schools that my son liked. (Good suggestion, btw)

lealdragon · September 12, 2006, 12:32am

Just to be accurate, it was not I who painted Rice that way, but that book. And, saying that there is a lot of alcohol at Rice is not the same thing as saying that Rice is all about alchohol. <wink></wink>

lealdragon · September 12, 2006, 12:47am

OK well I'm not sure where the book is at the moment, but I'm 99% sure it was this one that mentioned alcohol so much in the Rice section:

Students' Guide to Colleges: The Definitive Guide to America's Top 100 SchoolsWritten by the Real Experts--the Students Who Attend Them (Paperback)
by Jordan Goldman, Colleen Buyers

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Students-Guide-Colleges-Definitive-SchoolsWritten/dp/0143035584/sr=1-1/qid=1158036335/ref=sr_1_1/102-1257207-5266541?ie=UTF8&s=books%5B/url%5D">http://www.amazon.com/Students-Guide-Colleges-Definitive-SchoolsWritten/dp/0143035584/sr=1-1/qid=1158036335/ref=sr_1_1/102-1257207-5266541?ie=UTF8&s=books</a>

lealdragon · September 12, 2006, 10:01am

I found this book, and this is the one. The reason I mentioned this is that when I read it, I was surprised to see that, for UT being the #1 'party school' alcohol and drugs were not mentioned all that much - not really any more than other schools. It was more about the night life: 6th street, etc. and the diversity - how some co-ops have the frat boys 'throwing up their alcohol at 3 am' thus keeping one awake, etc. So the alcohol was just part of the description of other things, in most cases. Contrast that with how many times alcohol seems to be the centerpiece in the Rice description.

Again, I am just paraphrasing from the book and trying to emphasize how really surprised I was when I read it. This book has an assortment of student reviews and supposedly the ones chosen are those that popped up the most.

lealdragon · September 12, 2006, 11:04am

Here are a few of the schools my son expressed an interest in. We haven't really seriously looked at these, but he was interested. I know there are others - I'll list them if I remember which ones they were. A rather diverse assortment, actually.

U of California at Berkeley
Oberlin College Ohio
U of Oregon
Harvey Mudd College CA
Colorado College
U of Colorado at Boulder
Brown University
Naropa University - Boulder

ag54 · September 12, 2006, 12:59pm

Sorry to butt in here, but I find this thread interesting. Vyse is vehemently pushing A&M, but if I remember correctly, she/he was devastated last spring to not be accepted to UT and was seriously considering attending the CAP program at UTA or UTSA. I am glad that you have found a home at A&M, but it is strange to see your complete turnaround. I think it is interesting how people push the college they end up at even if it wasn't their dream school. It's like they desperately want more people to go there, that it will somehow validate their choice. A study should be done. ;) And lealdragon, I too have heard about the partying atmosphere at Rice. I live in Houston and know many kids there including my s's best friend. They party pretty hearty and some of the school wide events are outrageously wild. My s is envious of some of the activities and he attends UF, a huge state school that is also known for partying. That does not mean that the Rice kids are not studious and certainly that ALL of them are wild, it just means that when they let down their hair, they can really throw a great party. Any school in the country, except maybe BYU, has a partying crowd, a studious crowd, a jocky crowd, a frat boy crowd, holy rollers, computer geeks, etc. (even A&M) It is up to each kid to get out and find their niche. This can either be easier at large state schools because of the large variety of people, or it can be more difficult if the student has problems putting themselves out there socially. It sounds like your s does not have those problems, so he will probably be happy wherever he ends up based on your above list. He also sounds like he has solid stats and has a good shot at UT Austin - Good luck :)

lealdragon · September 12, 2006, 1:17pm

Thanks for the good thoughts, AG54! Well said!

m1817 · September 12, 2006, 1:55pm

As long as you have Cal-Berkeley on the list, check out U of Wisconsin - Madison. Madison is the capital of the People's Republic of Wisconsin.

OS tuition, room, & board at Wisconsin is ~$27K vs ~$40K for Cal.

Wisconsin would probably provide a better undergraduate experience. It has 30K undergrads vs 23K at Cal. They both have 9K grad students.

Wisconsin has 68% acceptance rate vs 27% at Cal.

Wisconsin is not as highly rated by USNWR as Cal but it is still a highly regarded research university.

Thread		Replies	Views
A&M Engineering - Why? Texas A&M University	17	54	April 17, 2021
Would you send your student to a State Flagship w/upcoming budget cuts? Parents Forum	20	90	April 14, 2021
University of Texas or University of Houston Engineering College Search & Selection	16	418	April 15, 2021
Universities academically similar to A&M State Forums texas-colleges	11	482	April 18, 2021
Texas A&M or UT Engineering? Texas A&M University	6	314	April 18, 2021

Any other TX school compares to UT?

POPULAR STATES

SEARCH SAT SCORES

SEARCH ACT SCORES

SEARCH GPA’S

Any other TX school compares to UT?

Related Topics

POPULAR STATES

SEARCH SAT SCORES

SEARCH ACT SCORES

SEARCH GPA’S

CONNECT WITH US