<p>I'm a Penn legacy (dad went to grad school). I don't need to mention my qualifications (I don't really have any weaknesses), so I'll just get to the point. Should I apply ED and risk getting in and not finding out if I get into HYPSM or any other Ivies? I heard there's a significant increase or likelihood of getting in with Legacy + ED rather than Legacy + RD, simply because doing RD makes it seem more of a family influence than a personal one. But I want to see if I can get Harv or Prince... and I was considering SCEA for Yale. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>“Risk” ED? It sounds like you don’t really want to go to Penn. In that case, you certainly shouldn’t apply. If you truly have no weaknesses, then as a legacy you stand a great chance of being accepted; and you would be a very bitter freshman.</p>
<p>Conventional wisdom, for whatever that’s worth, says the legacy is only valuable in the ED phase. The feeling being that if your legacy experience wasn’t enough to make you want to apply ED then your level of interest is no greater than that of an average non-legacy applicant.</p>
<p>Right. Presumably that’s why she posed this question in the first place.</p>
<p>I’m a he. I don’t have any weaknesses, meaning I don’t do badly in school or on standardized tests. I get good grades in all honors/AP level courses, self-study, do 3 sports a year, and I’m a leader of various clubs. I have a pretty good focus in journalism and medicine. Regardless, should I risk going to Penn, let’s say a “middle top-tier school,” and basically eliminating any chance of going to HYP “top top-tier schools,” or risk it all and have to settle for a lower top tier school in the end.</p>
<p>I seriously wish UPenn would have SCEA. Seriously, come on.</p>
<p>Ah, to be young and hopeful.</p>
<p>You’re in almost precisely the same situation that I was as a senior. I was 5th in my class at a top private school, did quite well obviously, had great SATs and SAT IIs (everything above a 750, which is above the 50th percentile of accepted students at all top universities) - but otherwise, I was a “normal” Ivy League applicant (which is to say, high-achieving but not much more than that). I had the token leadership positions (editor-in-chief of this, captain of that), was active on the debate team, etc.</p>
<p>The only difference I see is that my legacy was at Harvard, while yours is at Penn - this, I think, was the fatal flaw in my subsequent decision-making.</p>
<p>So, I visited Penn, Columbia and Harvard and, as I was walking off of Penn’s campus on a warm August day, my father said: “Well, I thought it was great. Lovely campus, top-ranked, fantastic students. Is that where you want to apply early decision?” I replied to him: “I want to apply to Harvard. Penn and Columbia are amazing schools, but ultimately they’re a step below Harvard.”</p>
<p>He told me that was a stupid thing to say, and to him it seemed like there was essentially no difference. In my mind, however, he was jaded - he was, after all, a Harvard alum, and so of course he wouldn’t care. HE had already been accepted!</p>
<p>So, I did it: I applied EA to Harvard (when such things still existed). I was deferred. Meanwhile, 2 people from my school applied ED to Penn. 1 was accepted. 4 applied to ED to Columbia, and 3 were accepted (like I said, I went to a very competitive private). Then came the RD round. Columbia, having presumably filled its quota from my school, accepted no further applicants - including the Valedictorian. Penn accepted the valedictorian and the salutatorian, but no one else. Harvard rejected me, the valedictorian AND the sal, and accepted just 1 person - the 3rd in our class. I didn’t apply to Dartmouth, Brown or Princeton. And I was also rejected from Yale. So where did I end up? Cornell.
Obviously, this was not a viable option and I transferred to Penn after freshman year.</p>
<p>So - yes. You are rightly worried. Had I applied ED to Penn, I know that I probably would have been accepted. The other person who was accepted ED was barely ranked 4th, and I had higher SATs.</p>
<p>HOWEVER - I honestly think that I was screwed by the perfect storm. In general, Columbia receives many fewer ED applications from my high school, and had it been a normal year, I think I would have been accepted RD (I was instead waitlisted). I also think that had I applied to Brown, Dartmouth or Princeton, I would have been accepted to one of them. Penn was my 3rd choice (after Harvard and Yale), but I obviously would have been happy to go to Dartmouth over Cornell.</p>
<p>So, what should you do? Hard to say. Learn from my mistakes, though - don’t dismiss Penn early, and end up at Hopkins. Apply to ALL top-10 schools. And don’t apply to schools that you would never want to attend. I hated Cornell for a million reasons: for its obvious inferiority to the other Ivies, its location, its weather. I honestly think I would have been happier at a non-Ivy League school - it was painful when Harvard would go up to Ithaca to for sports games, let me tell you.</p>
<p>Great post. Some people take a gamble and lose.</p>
<p>muerteapablo- </p>
<p>I understand Cornell is a “step-below” some of the other top schools in the U.S., but you make it sound like a lame community college with a 99% acceptance rate. Really? Cornell is a great school, as are MANY non HYPSM etc. schools. </p>
<p>I get your point about strategizing. It is valid. BUT, I do feel that one can strategize too much. I don’t think top choice schools should be picked entirely on reputation, and I believe that students should apply ED only to schools that they absolutely love–not just to schools that fit their “game plan” best.</p>
<p>Aww. That’s a really good post! In addition, what’s wrong with ending up at Hopkins? I’ve always viewed it as the Ivy-League Applicant’s safety school… is that true?</p>
<p>To clarify - there’s nothing wrong with either Hopkins or Cornell. I didn’t want to go to Cornell for many reasons - the inferiority (and it was the inferiority complex and PERCEIVED inferiority more than the actual) was only one of them.</p>
<p>Hopkins is a great school - but if you had your heart set on Harvard, Penn, Dartmouth, et al., matriculating there is sure to sting a little.</p>
<p>Their acceptance rating is almost 30%. I knew of a kid at my school who got in ED, (he was somewhat passionate about veterinary studies, but I think the extent of which he did it was just volunteering). He wasn’t even in the top 12-15 of our class. And I go to a top private boarding school. And I’ve attended their information seminars (they tend to have a lot more than other top schools… normally the prestige and excellence of a college would advertise itself…) and the general message that comes across is this:</p>
<p>-We want you to have good grades in hard classes.
- You should do well on standardized tests, but good grades is more important
- You should have a balance of extracurriculars.</p>
<p>And that’s primarily it. They really stress course rigor (which isn’t a problem, because I’d have completed 14 honors courses, 9 APs [2 self-study] by the end of high school).</p>
<p>They make it seem so much easier than the Ivies, who say the same thing, but really have a much higher standard.</p>
<p>OK, well, there you go.</p>
<p>So that’s it?</p>
<p>They get some very talented students - people like me, for example (not to be immodest), who make a gamble on HYP and then end up shafted. These people often come out of the experience fantastically motivated, and make their way to the HYP-equivalent for grad school, etc. </p>
<p>So, there’s certainly no shame in going to Hopkins (as there is no shame is attending ANY college) - but it will NOT give you the kind of recognition and prestige you get from going to HYP, or a middle-Ivy. I would exclude Cornell, which I consider on par if slightly above Hopkins.</p>
<p>To speak plainly - my opinion is thus. If you want to be recognized even partially by the school you attend, even if only among people “in-the-know”, you really need to attend a top-10 school, adding Brown and Dartmouth and possibly excluding UChicago. Older people tend to want to exclude Penn, because when they were young adults it was ranked 16th and accepted like 50% of applicants - but this is no longer the case, obviously, and Penn is one of the most selective schools in the country.</p>
<p>I used to be obsessed with Harvard, but I don’t think I want to go their for undergrad.
But Princeton’s always been somewhere in my heart. Idk. What kind of people GO to Princeton? For some reason, they have different students than Harvard and Yale do. I’d be happy with Columbia and Penn, as well, but I don’t really have interest in Darty or Cornell. Only Brown PLME.</p>
<p>And why is your name Death to Pablo?</p>
<p>Brown PLME is not a good idea, unless you’re certain that you want to become a doctor. I might also point out that Brown’s medical school is good, like top-30, but you could get into a better one with likely more financial aid if you just go to a normal undergrad program (like Brown’s, for example!). Does Brown without PLME interest you at all?</p>
<p>If I were in your situation, I would apply to Penn or Columbia early. And since you have legacy at Penn, I would apply to Penn. Those are my thoughts. If you really think you have a great shot at Princeton, do it, but remember my story. Penn doesn’t accept a lot of transfers, either - the admit rate was 7.5 percent last year. It’s not so easy to take back your mistakes.</p>
<p>What are your stats? That will help me paint a better picture. Are you a URM? Contest winner? etc.</p>
<p>I’ll try to paint the picture, I’m tired, so it won’t be as thorough.</p>
<p>Asian Male
Private High School NJ (Probably one of the best in the state/region)</p>
<p>SAT I: 2200-2300
SAT II: 800’s on USH, Math II, Chem
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 4.0
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): Top 2-4%? out of 120-130 ish</p>
<p>Transcript:</p>
<p>9th- Bio Honors, English 1 Honors, World History Honors, Algebra 2 Honors, Spanish 2 Honors, </p>
<p>10th- Chem Honors, English 2 Honors, US History Honors, Precalc Honors, Spanish 3 Honors, Self-study AP Psych, Self-study AP Environmental Science</p>
<p>11th- AP Chem, Physics Honors, AP USH, AP Calc BC, English 3 Honors, Spanish 4 Honors</p>
<p>12th- AP Bio, and either Physics C/Euro, Multivariable Calc, AP English Lit, AP Spanish Lang.</p>
<p>No major awards.</p>
<p>Extracurriculars:</p>
<p>Newspaper- Staff (there’s only 5 staff, 4 are editors) for 2 years, EIC 2 years
Forensics - Student Leader, 4 years
XC - varsity Letter 4 years
Tennis - Varsity 2-3 Years
Fencing - Varsity 2 years
SADD - VP 1 year, member 1 year, President 2 years
Community Service Club - student leader 3 years, member 1 year
Piano - started since 4 years old, orchestra 4 years, piano contests [nothing that special]
I’m kind of into medicine and journalism. I do the newspaper, I write, and I have a blog. Possibly attending summer programs. </p>
<p>Hospital Volunteering - 3 hours a week, 3 years
Animal Shelter Volunteering - I think about 80 hours within the span of several months, maybe 2.5 hours a year. Raised fundraisers, community events, etc. 4 years
Library Volunteering - 4 years, Total of around 100 hours+
Internship - 2 years</p>
<p>No hooks really. I don’t think we qualify for FA, unless it’s need-blind.</p>
<p>After doing this, I actually don’t feel very qualified… idk. My ECs don’t look very good anymore. Maybe I’m forgetting something because I’m tired.</p>
<p>Any suggestions? Thoughts?</p>
<p>For some reason, I feel as if my list isn’t really that good anymore…</p>
<p>And I am interested in being a doctor. I’m not really sure about Brown undergrad, though. I understand their med school is only like top-30 ish. How’s their college?</p>