Any Questions about Caltech? I'm a current Caltech student

Colleges and Universities A-Z California Institute of Technology
21

<p>I am glad Caltech has the courage launch such a study; at the same time, I worry about what may happen. When the results come out, there will be those that will want to fine-tune the admissions process to precision-pick students that will thrive best in the institution, but there will also be those that will want to change the nature of the institution to make certain type of students succeed. There are (at least) two degrees of freedom here. This could be a battle for the very soul of Caltech. It is not clear a-priori which is the right way to go.</p>

<p>Well, from crisis comes opportunity!</p>

22

<p>i have another question arising from what ben has said.how accurate is overall high school grade as an indicator of academic success at caltech?The reason is that sometimes high school courses,even higher level IB,can be very easy,and such simplicity of the courses reduces the incentive of some students to work at their fullest potential,because such courses do not arouse in them the desire or will to excel.on the other hand at caltech everybody will feel challenged and assert themselves more academically,therefore a person with a relatively low (let's say 90) grade for caltech in high school might very well do great at caltech when they feel sufficiently challenged and working with people of a similar aptitude.how does the admission officer weigh such factors and how would he/she know that a student has such potential?i am wondering about this because i have a 96 in higher level european history ib,and only lost those 4 percent for not doing hw (hw is 5% of the mark).i can just review for 2 h the morning of a test day and get 100,therefore why would i waste my time doing something that does not stimulate my intellectual growth(such as taking notes,meaning copying easily obtained information from a textbook)?i would rather read something much more thought-provoking than a social textbook,for example Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.i do something similar in other courses too and sometimes lose quite a bit more than 4% for that.however this is reflected in my teacher recommendations(my tendency to not do easy school work but do something more difficult but not in the school curriculum),does this help me at all in the admission process,or is it going to hurt me?</p>

23

<p>I know what you're talking about ;-)</p>

<p>When a student with very high aptitude is obviously bored with boring assignments, we know what we are looking at, and sometimes aptitude and passion in other areas can win out. So if you're in that situation now and some parts of your application show real passion for more difficult work and some laziness with respect to easier work, then it's not the kiss of death.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if you're younger and deciding whether to implement the ignore-stupid-work strategy, be aware that it's risky. Someone in the room might say "this student is too cocky -- maybe he'll think the Caltech work is too easy for him and fail out as a result." That may or may not be accurate, but I don't really recommend taking the chance that someone will be annoyed with a smug attitude toward some of your work.</p>

<p>Obviously, the admissions committe is made up of individuals, all with different ideas and backgrounds and tastes. Some will look at a student fitting the description you gave and say "Hey, you remind me of me." Some others will, as I described, attribute the situation to arrogance or some other negative trait. It all depends. So the safer strategy is not to gamble that way. But some people have taken that gamble and come out okay too.</p>

<p>So that's the picture, hopefully it answers your question.</p>

24

<p>yea it answers my question perfectly,thanks a lot once again Ben:)</p>

25

<p>How does SSP (<a href="http://www.summerscience.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.summerscience.org&lt;/a&gt;) help in admissions to CalTech?</p>

<p>If there is "shortage" of majors in a particular field, will it be easier for an applicant to get in if he/she plans to go into that subject? (assuming same stats for both applicants (and the secong applicant wants to major in ....let's say physics....or math...or any other frequently chosen major))</p>

26

<p>
[quote]
How does SSP (<a href="http://www.summerscience.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.summerscience.org&lt;/a&gt;) help in admissions to CalTech?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's a good summer science program. It helps, especially if there's evidence that it fed a passion and love for science and mathematics.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If there is "shortage" of majors in a particular field, will it be easier for an applicant to get in if he/she plans to go into that subject?

[/quote]
Nope. Initial decleared areas of interest coincide so infrequently with eventual major choices that doing this would be silly. In short, there is no advantage given to students planning to go into "unusual" areas, assuming all else equal.</p>

27

<p>Do you know any SSP stats, such as percentage of SSPers who get in?</p>

<p>I know it can't be as prestigious as RSI, but is it in the same order of magnitude?</p>

28

<p>Hi, Ben:</p>

<p>I have some questions about ECs....</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Does math team, physcis team ect activity counts as academic work or EC?</p></li>
<li><p>IF you spend a lot of time doing math, you make it to usa math olympiad summer training camp? Will that count as activity with passion --e.g. EC? </p></li>
<li><p>Since you spend so much time on math and physics, you really don't have enough time to be on any sports team to be stand out, Will no sport hurt your chances of get in ? ( you do sports only on your own, for fun)....</p></li>
<li><p>How important community service is ? Someone here gets about 2000 hours, what if you only have about 200 hours? representing school to go to all kinds of competition and prepare for it takes away a lot of times on weekend.......</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks in advance, Ben. You are greately appreciated.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
1. Does math team, physcis team ect activity counts as academic work or EC?

[/quote]

Extracurriculars. : )</p>

<p>
[quote]
2. IF you spend a lot of time doing math, you make it to usa math olympiad summer training camp? Will that count as activity with passion --e.g. EC?

[/quote]
Yes! Most definitely. We are very interested to hear about math/science you do outside of school, even if it's independent and not really in a very structured club.</p>

<p>
[quote]
3. Since you spend so much time on math and physics, you really don't have enough time to be on any sports team to be stand out, Will no sport hurt your chances of get in ? ( you do sports only on your own, for fun)....

[/quote]
No! In fact, I get mad at people who spread the harmful fiction that college admissions committees in general place some deep emphasis on athletic involvement, or community service, or any other single thing. What is more accurate is that we care about what you did to improve yourself and develop your interests. Do sports if that's what you enjoy -- on an organized team, if that's what you enjoy. But if instead of doing sport X you spent the time developing some quirky independent physics or math project, say -- and you entertain us by telling us what is cool about what you did -- that can have a bigger influence (especially at Caltech, but also at other places) than the sports you would have had in its place. Anyway, anybody who says it's particularly important for college admissions to be "well rounded" or to have some "magic" activity in your resume like sports or community service is just not telling the truth. </p>

<p>Honestly, with all else equal, I personally would take a passionate kid who spends all his spare time proving his own mathematical conjectures or writing a novel (and accomplishes something in those things) over the vanilla student who says "I am captain of my cross country team, editor of the school newspaper, and have 800 hours of community service". And that's not meant to be a dig at anyone: my major activities in school consisted of being captain of my cross country team, editing the school newspaper, and 800 hours of community service. But looking back, I realize the people who guided me toward those conventional forms of involvement and leadership weren't really serving my best interests. They were well-meaning but a little clueless. From everything I know about college admissions, there is no extra benefit from doing those classic kinds of things. It certainly won't harm you if you end up doing those things -- you'll notice I did okay. It shows involvement and leadership, etc. But if you spend a similar amount of time and energy instead on less standard math-science involvement that really shows your originality/intellect/passion, it is likely to have the same positive impact on your extracurricular profile as the more usual stuff would have... and it'll be more fun to read, too, since it'll be more unusual.</p>

<p>In short, don't pay attention to people who peddle magic activity of type X or Y as the thing that colleges really want to see -- the activity that is the magic ticket. Those people rarely know anything. The important thing is that in your time outside of school, you show yourself to be a driven, interesting, intellectually engaged person. You are very much more likely to do that spending time on things you are drawn to and enjoy, even if it's not whatever standard activity is currently popular among dutiful children. (Additionally, it is quite likely that if you do one of the standard dutiful activities even if it's not what you really enjoy, it'll be pretty obvious to the people who read your application and won't help your application at all.)</p>

<p>So: in short -- be your own person. Let your best qualities shine through by doing the things that coincide most closely with what you enjoy. Ignore people who say colleges especially prefer that you express your good personal qualities through X and Y (e.g. "sports and community service"). I promise, they speak nonsense.</p>

30

<p>Just to remind everyone that Ben is talking about admissions to Caltech, a very unusual college, looking for a very specific kind of student. Caltech may not care if you were captain of your X team, but many excellent colleges would care a lot.</p>

31

<p>Ehhh... it's certainly true that Caltech is unique, but I'm almost positive that a Harvard or Princeton would often be more impressed by something original and off-the-beaten path (like a quirky science project, or an collection of independently written philosophical essays) than some activity or leadership role they see 10,000 applicants list. I think you'd be surprised at how fundamentally alike some aspects of admissions are across schools, though the nuances certainly differ.</p>

<p>So, afan, you seem to have misunderstood the point of my post. The point was not "Caltech doesn't care about sports, or community service, and that's why you shouldn't worry about that stuff." The real reason you shouldn't worry about those things too much that they're not fundamentally better for demonstrating personality trait T than some other activity that virtually nobody touts as the get-into-college trick of the month. In fact, since the standard activities are so overwhelmingly common among top applicants, they are somewhat suboptimal for standing out.</p>

<p>Edit: for recruited athletes, etc., obviously you should probably be the captain of something. But that is such a tiny number of people in the grand scheme of things that I don't aim my "general advice" at them.</p>

32

<p>Recruited athletes were the first and most obvious difference between Caltech at one end and HP at the other. Caltech does not have dozens of D1 teams to fill up each year.</p>

<p>HP also appear much more concerned about who will edit the newspaper, play in the orchestra, and do the many other things that are critical to the overall college experience at places that are explicitly not all focussed on one area of activity. </p>

<p>So on Caltech admissions, I'll take your word for it. The academic demands are so extreme that I assume you have to devote most of your attention to finding those who are most likely to benefit from the experience, and thrive in the environment. At many other places there are lots of people who will do just fine academically, and the mix of EC's can be critically important.</p>

33

<p>Yes -- but even there, doing "weird" EC's like water polo or harp is more likely to make one a hot property on the extracurricular end (since there is a limited supply of those people) than something more typical. The applications of my advice will vary, but it is far better to do something a little off the beaten path to distinguish yourself. Which is why fretting about not doing enough of a particularly widespread activity is a little silly.</p>

34

<p>for your very thorough reply.</p>

<p>You really cleared up a lot of confusions for me and my son. I am so glad I asked those questions, otherwise my son may as well spend a lot of time doing things that are 'popular' and 'required' instead of be oncentrated on where his passion is....... </p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

<p>Happy Thanksgiving !</p>

35

<p>Happy Thanksgiving!</p>

<p>Another random question for any Caltech student/alum: How hard is it to get a single, provided one ends up in a house which includes some? Are rooms assigned randomly?</p>

<p>I know that probably comes across as a(nti)social, but I'm just the type of person who needs to be alone a bit, especially in order to sleep.</p>

36

<p>a(nti)social? Believe me this word doesn't mean much when you're in the Caltech environment. :)</p>

37

<p>Haha... all the Tech'ers I've met (yes, strong bias introduced there, but hey) have been really nice and actually pretty outgoing. I'd like to think I'm also friendly as well (if not especially outgoing) but I still need to be able to be alone. I'd literally be happy to live in a closet (with enough space to sleep on the floor) - I just don't want a roommate.</p>

<p>Oh well, maybe this is something to worry about after applications are done; it's likely enough not to be an issue at all :)</p>

38

<p>haha i think it's indisputable, however, that the social climate at caltech has a somewhat different flavor to it than that anywhere else :-P</p>

39

<p>Each house does roompicks a diffrent way so I really can't answer your question. It all depends on which house you get into. If having a single is really that important to you, you can move off campus(which often is only moving to graduate housing) after frosh year. You will definetly be able to get a single in the graduate student housing. </p>

<p>On a sidenote I think that Caltech roommates do better together than at other schools, because we are not simply randomly assigned to each other but get to pick each other. I know that my roommates and I work well together(I'm in a triple). Anyways the point is having a roommate isn't nearly as bad as it is made out to be.</p>

40

<p>Thanks very much, born2run!</p>

<p>Picking a roommate certainly sounds better than being randomly assigned, but my concern isn't with getting along with people - just with not having someplace where I know I can be alone, if that makes any sense. Oh well - still not worth worrying about without having been admitted :)</p>