<p>bclintonk, correct me if I’m wrong but schools don’t know a student’s financial needs when they first apply, right? But it seems a school like UVa rejects a lot of qualified OOS applicants; is this just based on the assumption they may need aid?</p>
<p>Because universities like Oakland and Wayne offered me a full ride and because those two especially are close enough to commute if money gets even tighter. </p>
<p>I think a lot of it has to do with the goal of the student. A lot of us in metro Detroit want to continue living here and get a job in the vicinity, so degrees from unis like OU and WSU help us reach that goal. </p>
<p>Now, if I aim to become some kind of marketable, national lawyer or something, you bet I’ll stay away from Wayne and U of D and go for U of M or comparable grad schools across the country. It all depends on where you’re at. If I don’t know, I’m more tempted to stick with the regional U where family and friends attended and then got good jobs in the area. </p>
<p>That’s just my $0.02 on the matter.</p>
<p>First of all, the students have to get into UMichigan which is not a automatic. The fact of the matter is that your chances of admissions and money are better the earlier you apply at many state schools, so waiting for Michigan’s response is not to one’s advantage. Also there are merit possibities at some state schools that might be difficult or impossible to get matched at Michigan. </p>
<p>Also some people are willing ot pay a premium to go elsewhere. They may want to get out of state, want a big city, warmer weather, a different campus feel. You love sunshine and beaches for a good part of the year, Michigan ain’t the place for you. Also, some departments might offer more than what MI does My friend’s DD had a choice between Georgia Tech and UMich for engineering and she turned down Michigan. And her family who are into the whole engineering thing, felt she picked the better department. </p>
<p>Some people want this as an opportunity to get away to something different. My friend has never left this area. She was accepted to some great schools but a nice scholarship kept her local, and it is a regret she does have, as she ended up marrying and then that was it for her in terms of relocating. There was too much at stake and too many risks with others involved by the time she finished grad school here and found local jobs, found her DH and had kids. She is determined her children get out for college. My son had some excellent local choices and a lot of his peers took them, and they are having a great time, doing well , having some good career opportunities here in the area, but he wanted to get away, wanted a different city, a different vibe, and so he chose his college with those things in mind. </p>
<p>Also some flat out don’t like UMich. I loved it when I visited, but for some it’s too big. So there are any number of reasons why someone whould want to go out of state.</p>
<p>My niece goes OOS right now and she is a VA resident. She got into an OOS flagship that is everything she wants, and she did not get into UVA which was the only school she would have considered in her state over such schools. DIdn’t like Tech, W&M is too small and doesn’t have the spirit scene she really wants. She’s on some spirit team with the big deal sports so that was something she sought in her schools, and a lot of schools OOS like Penn State, MD, UFL had a lot more of what she wanted than her in state choices. Michigan, none of the schools in that state even made her list. </p>
<p>Also, there are some who feel Mich is too big. My highschooler just toured and crossed off UWisc Madison from his list. Way to big. Didn’t like it one bit. He’ll look at Michigan and we’ll see if that’s too big as well. Loved Penn State and Pitt and Delaware. Now none of these are in state for him, and our state schools are real financial bargains but they are lacking in the three Rs of recognition, ratings and reputation for him, though they will also be considered.</p>
<p>@intparent,
The question is about why applying to oos public, not choosing oos public over UMich.
Besides, there are certain programs at UMN that have higher ranking than UMich such as Chemical Engineering. After all, one should pick a school that fits oneself which may not be simply due to the ranking. I just want to point out even for oos tuition, many schools are not more expensive than UMich’s in state tuition particularly when there are other financial aids like the mid-west student exchange program.</p>
<p>In terms of financial aid, UMich is not so great probably because of it’s size. Only ~70% applied for aid are considered to have need. Among those, only ~45% have their need met. That alone could be a good reason to apply elsewhere as a backup plan.</p>
<p>In a similar vein, why would somebody pay top $$ to go to a relatively unknown private school? I can understand paying 50-60k for top schools, be it private or public.</p>
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<p>No, they reject a lot of qualified OOS applicants because they get far more qualified applicants than the number of places in the entering class they’re willing to fill with OOS applicants. UVA has a fairly high cap on OOS enrollment, but it’s still a cap, and it’s near a lot of major population centers in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions. Students in many of those states see UVA as more desirable than their own state flagship, so they apply in large numbers.</p>
<p>As far as I know, UVA claims to be need-blind in admissions, which means they don’t consider an applicant’s financial status in making the admissions decision. But some people question whether some schools making this claim are disingenuous. They can usually tell a lot just by looking at the applicant’s zip code. Applicants who attend highly selective private high schools skew more affluent, as do, obviously applicants from public high schools in wealthy suburbs. As to when the school gets access to an applicant’s financial data, that depends, but most schools set deadlines for submission of the FAFSA and/or the CSS Profile—which they require for need-based aid, or in some cases even for merit aid–well before their Regular Decision admission decision dates, so schools that are not need-blind have ample time to make those decisions. It’s more difficult with ED or EA applicants because typically their financial data won’t be in before the ED/EA decision, but need-aware schools can fill out the rest of the class around those ED/EA admits. </p>
<p>I don’t have any reason to believe UVA is “peeking” at students’ financial data before they make admissions decisions. It’s just a popular school that many highly qualified OOS applicants would like to attend, but most won’t get in. In that respect it’s no different than elite private schools which routinely reject highly qualified applicants in very large numbers.</p>
<p>Some students have a parent living in another state and qualify for in-state tuition even though they don’t live with that parent. Also, some have parents in the military and have domicile in a different state, and sometimes qualify as a resident in more than one state. So some of these kids applying out-of-state may actually be taking advantage of these types of situations. Others are uninformed of the cost, or have not discussed a budget with their parents. </p>
<p>I know one friend of my D who chose Berkeley OOS over UVA in- state. Money was no object, and she fit in better at Cal. Also wanted to try living on the West Coast.</p>
<p>[Students</a> protest changes to U-Va. financial aid program - Washington Post](<a href=“http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-22/local/42299402_1_low-income-students-aid-program-accessuva]Students”>http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-22/local/42299402_1_low-income-students-aid-program-accessuva)</p>
<p>University of Virginia financial aid change.</p>
<p>“Starting with next year’s freshman class, and continuing with each class to follow, low-income students will have to secure federally subsidized loans to pay for part of their education. These loans will be capped at $14,000 for in-state students and $28,000 for out-of-state students over four years.”</p>
<p>Strong matches for UofM that are choosing other out-of-state publics are likely doing so because money isn’t a factor (either because of family $, merit award, etc.) and they want to do something different. At my high school it seemed like everybody in the top 10% of my class went to Michigan, the kids in the 10-25% range went to State and the kids in the middle went to MIAA privates, Oakland, Western or Grand Valley. </p>
<p>If you have the means, I don’t see the problem in going wherever you want. Now if parents are co-signing large student loans so their kid can spend 3x tuition at UNC or Illinois then they’re complete MORONS. No two ways about it.</p>
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<p>Love it. But isn’t it amazing that people allow a 17 y/o to write what is more or less a completely unnecessary $80,000 check from their checkbook? I assume if that girl asked for a new Porsche 911 the Dad would have laughed. But ask to go to college in a sunnier state and it’s O.K.</p>
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<p>The desirability point is on point. If the States of New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Massachusetts (all high producers of high achieving high school students) had universities as prestigious as UMich, the OOS pressures on UMich, UVA, Chapel Hill, etc. would be far less. I would speculate, grandly and with no data, that while lots of the best and brightest in Michigan stay in Michigan with UMich, the best and brightest in those state most uniformly apply out of state. On the other side of the coin, take Texas with its (10% – now 7% rule), where anyone in the top percent of the class is an “auto-admit” to UT, by most people’s estimate a well-regarded university. Very, very smart kids who miss the top 7% and don’t get into UT apply OOS and the OOS unis are delighted to take them (many have 2100+ SATs, etc.) and delighted to have their OOS $$$. California has a huge in-state high school population, but only really 4 good UCs to go to (Berkeley, UCLA, San Diego, Santa Barbara) and so this forces lots of CA kids OOS who want better universities.</p>
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<p>I don’t know where you’re getting these figures, but according to the University of Michigan’s 2012-2013 Common Data Set, 51.% of undergrads applied for need-based FA. Of those who applied, 73.6% were determined to have need. Of those identified as having need, 97.6% were awarded need-based FA. Of those receiving need-based FA, 75.5% received need-based grants/scholarships, and (a partially overlapping) 57.9% received non-need-based (merit) grants/scholarships. A higher percentage, 84.5% of those awarded need-based aid, received “self-help” aid, i.e., subsidized federal loans and/or work/study.</p>
<p>My understanding is that Michigan already meets 100% of need for in-state students through some combination of grants/scholarships, subsidized federal loans, and work/study, but the exact mix will vary from student to student. Though of course it’s possible that a particular student might get a better deal at a private or OOS public university that defines need differently or meets full need with a different mix of grants, loans, and work/study.</p>
<p>At present Michigan does not meet full need for OOS students, but since on average it meets 90% of need for all students with need, it’s not that far away from meeting full need for all students, something the university has identified as a priority in its upcoming capital campaign.</p>
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<p>“Loved Penn State” (total enrollment 45,783, undergrad enrollment 39,192) but found Wisconsin “way too big” (total enrollment 42,820, undergrad enrollment 30,863) and “he’ll look at Michigan and we’ll see if that’s too big as well” (total enrollment 43,426, undergrad enrollment 27,979). Say what???</p>
<p>LOL, I thought this thread was about “rational” reasons for choosing a school. </p>
<p>Seriously, anyone who “loved Penn State” is not rejecting another school because it’s too big; they just don’t come much bigger than Penn State, especially at the undergrad level. Unless he means the physical campus at Wisconsin is too big or laid out in an inconvenient way, but that’s not what people usually mean when they talk about how “big” a school is. My guess is there’s just something he didn’t like about the “look” or “feel” of Wisconsin, and “too big” was just a convenient rationalization that sounds reasonable enough on its face, until you stop and realize he loves an even bigger school, so it can’t rationally be about size. But it could be about the “look” or “feel” of size; perhaps Penn State just masks its size better than Wisconsin does.</p>
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<p>I would think it has more to do with California’s affluent population than lack of good public universities. You listed 4, and Michigan has 1 in UofM. Michigan’s population is a 1/4 of the size of California.</p>
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<p>Really odd list of schools he or she is touring. How are any of them much different than Michigan or Michigan State? For 3x the cost…</p>
<p>re: #35 Michigan actually has two good public universities. Michigan State is about an hour and a half from Ann Arbor and similar in size. There is some overlap in majors and some that are unique to each institution. The OSS population at Michigan State is slightlyl lower than UofM but they come because MSU is a Big 10 school, has a global reputation and some really good residential colleges. There aren’t that many states with two or more large highly regarded universities.</p>
<p>We also have Irvine and Davis. Cal Poly SLO is considered very good for Engineering. That said, it is super difficult to get into UCB or UCLA & nowadays even into UCSD. If my kid gets into Michigan but not into UCB or UCLA, I will happily write a check. The networking opportunities that are presented to a person graduating from Michigan, UVA, UIUC etc are far superior to the opportunities from many other in state public schools. Finally, there is something to be said about life experiences that you get by living some place other than where you have lived your entire life. All good reasons to apply to well reputed OOS schools. Obviously depends on financial circumstances. Education is an investment - a much better one than a Porsche 911.</p>
<p>@bclintonk
My data is from PR The Best 378 Colleges 2014 Ed. Your data is similar to mine showing around 70% applied for aid are determined to have need (your data is 73.6%). Your data just show the % of student received aid. Mine actually said 40% frosh need fully met and 46% UG need fully met. Although 73% of the UG with need received need based aid and 58% received non-need based aid (obviously some receive both). Most of them do not have their need fully met. In average, only 83% of need per student is met. Don’t assume the loan and work study would make up the rest.</p>
<p>Remember UofM meets need for in-state students and does not meet need for out of state. Those percentiles that mix in-state and out-of-state can be confusing. Also UofM utilizes Profile which can yield different valuations of need depending on how the parents assets are structured. So yes, students need to work with their parents to understand what the costs might be (in-state because of Profile and out-of-state for obvious reasons). Since UofM doesn’t have any really big scholarships - packages are definitely a mix from a variety of sources.</p>