Any suggestions for a good safety school?

Parents Forum
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<p>My son is a high school junior and thinking about what colleges to apply to.
His class rank is 7 out of 170.
His first year average was 98.3 and second year 99.4. (all honors classes except art).
This year he's taking AP US History, College pre-calc, Honors English, AP Bio, and Physics. So far doing extremely well although first quarter grades are not out yet. Taking PSATs in 3 weeks. His highest grades are in math, science, English and history.. lower ones were in art and Spanish.<br>
ECs: Track team, and he's working on a community service program (which he initiated himself) with the mayor.
Last summer he was in the National Youth Leadership Forum on Medicine program. This summer he hopes to get an internship for high school students involving research (such as with the NIH) but these are very competitive so we will have to see.<br>
He wants to major in math and go to medical school.</p>

<p>Ambitiously, he is wants to apply to Princeton, Dartmouth and Johns Hopkins.
He has visited Colgate University and loved it, and also wants to apply there.
He needs several more schools to apply to (is 10 a good number or too many?) </p>

<p>The guidance counselor said he should have a "safety school" so we are looking for schools that are less selective than Colgate (but still great schools).<br>
He wants a school that is in the northeast or mid Atlantic states, and has about 6500 or less undergraduate students, liberal arts college or university. </p>

<p>We live in New York and I think he should apply to at least one SUNY. Most of these have a great many students but SUNY Geneseo is small and seems to be one of the best academically. </p>

<p>The guidance counselor suggested College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. We liked what we read about them and he may apply there but I don't see how it's less selective than Colgate. </p>

<p>How much less selective should he go? Colgate, SUNY Geneseo, and Holy Cross accept 33% to 38% of applicants. There is also Lehigh (38%), University of Rochester (38%). </p>

<p>Should he go down to 40%-50%. 60%? I think the other SUNYs are good but much larger than he wants. </p>

<p>We're hoping to get the best financial aid possible of course, and make a thorough search of outside scholarships. I make less than 60K. Colgate and Holy Cross seem to be have good financial aid prospects. </p>

<p>Also, he has the idea that it would not make sense to apply to any more of the top schools than he is already thinking of (Dartmouth, Princeton, Johns Hopkins). Is that correct? These schools get so many great applicants.. you don't know how a particular student's application will strike them. Three could turn you down and the fourth accept you. </p>

<p>Thanks for any suggestions :)</p>

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<p>You should have him look at St. Lawrence. </p>

<p>My son was given $30K a year in merit aid. He chose to attend another school but he would have been very happy at SLU.</p>

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<p>Until you know what his scores are there is really no way to guess what an appropriate safety might be. At our high school Colgate requires a weighted GPA about 4 points higher and a 2400 SAT score about 200 points higher than Holy Cross. So I’d say it was a good deal more selective. If you visit Holy Cross you should also look at Clark University which is also in Worcester, MA. It has about the same selectivity, is featured in the College that Change Lives book and is not Jesuit (which you can consider a plus or minus :slight_smile: ). </p>

<p>My younger son with a 97 wGPA/2180 SAT score had American for his safety. He had originally intended to have Syracuse as well, but got into U of Chicago early. Older son with even stronger grades and scores had RPI and WPI (another Worcester school) as his safeties. Some of his main list schools were less techie, but he felt if he went to a safe school he wanted to be with science geeks. The nice thing about Worcester is that you can take classes at any of the five colleges located there.</p>

<p>If your child gets in somewhere through early action or rolling admissions, you may not need a traditional safety. However, if you are looking for merit aid, safety level schools are most likely to offer it.</p>

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<p>

I can’t make any specific suggestions for a safety school. But the point of a safety school is to find a school where all three of these are true: he WILL get in and he WILL be able to afford it and he WILL actually like it. For many people, a safety is the local CC or state university. </p>

<p>Acceptance isn’t a matter of overall percentages, but a matter of his positioning within the applying students (top quarter of the class is fine at some schools, but not at those who have too many qualified students, such as Harvard et al). At your income level, you’ll get the very best fin aid at the Ivies and a very few like them. Your next best bet for money is a next-level school where your son is in the upper 5 - 20% of incoming students; they’ll be trying to bribe him away from the more respected/famous schools.</p>

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<p>Geekmom63 is spot on. You really have to wait for the SAT results etc to really know where he will fit re safeties etc. This year should be about grades in school this year, visiting as many potential schools as he can, and going to those college reps that come to your area, and prepping/taking his admission tests.
I know someone from down our way who ended up going to his “safety”, SUNY Stoneybrook, got scholarship (parents earn more than you) and really likes it.
Due to the low acceptance rate roulette of applying to “top tier/Ivies” if he really wants to have the best chance of getting in to one (and of comparing aide packages) I would advise at least 6-8 apps in that tier. I know it is a pain to do all those essays, (and pay the app fees), but even the 2300+, Valedictorians do not get into most of the schools like this they apply to! So more apps = better odds.</p>

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<p>He might want to look at William and Mary as a mid range “safety” depending on board scores. Not sure it would be a guarantee admit, but fits a lot of his other criteria.</p>

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<p>Admittedly it is hard to predict safety schools without knowing SAT scores and junior year GPA… but do not expect that either Geneseo or University of Rochester to be considered safety schools-they are more likely matches. SUNY New Paltz or Albany might be considered more of a safety school along with schools like University of Vermont, Syracuse, University of Delaware or Pitt- all considerably larger than what you are looking for.</p>

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<p>*'re hoping to get the best financial aid possible of course, and make a thorough search of outside scholarships. I make less than 60K. Colgate and Holy Cross seem to be have good financial aid prospects. </p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Safety schools often do not “meet need” or give super FA. So, often safety schools are instate publics or other schools that you know FOR SURE that he’d get ASSURED grants, ASSURED merit scholarships, etc.</p>

<p>A school is NOT a safety if you’re not 100% sure that all costs are covered. Obviously, if a school is not affordable, then getting accepted was for naught. </p>

<p>Figure out how much you can contribute. If a school gaps you (and many schools gap) then those schools will expect you to pay more than you expected. Once you figure out how much you can contribute, tell your child that he must get aid/scholarships to cover the rest. I suggest being very conservative about how much you can spend because there are a lot of unknown expenses related to college and if you’re stretched too thin, those “surprise expenses” will not be covered. </p>

<p>in your son’s case, I think he should have at least 2-3 safeties.</p>

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<p>I was going to suggest the U of Rochester, which was my S’s safety. Our experience was that their FA was inadequate, despite S being given a combo of merit and need, but we had a somewhat unusual situation that led to weird FA results from several schools. We had less than $30K in income, but were self-employed and had an asset that on paper could have been liquidated. (“On paper” being the key words. In reality, it could not.)</p>

<p>I think it’s a fine school, with strength in broad areas.</p>

<p>I would also put Geneseo and Binghamton on your list.</p>

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<p>William and Mary is not a safety for any OOS applicant. It’s very tough for OOS students to get in there, particularly ones from overrepresented regions (NY, NJ, CT).</p>

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<p>Be sure to check the common data sets for admission criteria. If “level of interest” is considered, that may indicate that the school does not like being used as a safety (and may reject high stats applicants to keep its yield up).</p>

<p>As others have noted, a safety must be financially safe as well as admissions safe.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of your responses. I think he’ll apply to some of the state schools (even if they are larger than what he wants). We will be making college visits and probably he can find a “safety” he really likes in case he does go there. Meanwhile he says he has wants to study “hard core” for the PSATs and “destroy” this year. :)</p>

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<p>This may sound odd, but he might want to check out the University of Delaware.</p>

<p>It’s smaller than most state universities, and its standards for admission for out-of-staters are only a little bit higher than for in-staters. The majority of its students are from out of state (mostly New Jersey, I think). </p>

<p>Some years ago, my son, with a record similar to your son’s, applied to Delaware as an out-of-state applicant. He was accepted, with a merit scholarship obviously designed to bring his cost of attendance down to the cost of attending his own state university. He was also invited to apply to their honors program (which he didn’t apply to because there were things about it that he didn’t like).</p>

<p>The university is also right near I-95, which is handy.</p>

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<p>Ten is an awful lot of applications. (I know, I know, there are people on CC who do 20). I suggest 6 to 8. Even better, try it this way:</p>

<p>1) First application is to a college that is a happy, “pretty sure I’d get in” choice. This is our practice round (getting those essays cranked out is rough!). A “happy” college is one with something cool about it – skiing, beaches, hiking, or some other aspect that your son would very much enjoy.
2) Application 2, 3, 4 are to the reach schools
3) Application 5 & 6 are to “strong fit” colleges (ie, the gpa and SAT’s are definitely in the typical acceptance range). </p>

<p>Get that far and see how exhausted S is. It might be a good point to quit after six, no matter what classmates are doing. </p>

<p>I clearly have a soft spot for Dartmouth (S1 is a recent grad) – but please tell your guy that there is no such thing as a “guaranteed acceptance” to any of the highly selective schools. Too many students do a dozen applications – all to highly selective schools – and then beat themselves up as rejection letters come in. </p>

<p>Even when the compliment of a great acceptance packet arrives, I promise you, the other rejections still sting.</p>

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<p>Shouldn’t the first application be to a solid safety, which means certain admission, certain affordability, and good academic and other fit (does not have to be perfect fit, just a good enough fit that the student will be able to study the education s/he wants there, which should leave a wide range of schools for most students; of course, it can be a “happy” school), as opposed to a “pretty sure I’d get in” school?</p>

<p>Without a solid safety among four year schools, the default solid safety becomes community college (in some states, there may be one or more state universities with rolling admissions and selectivity thresholds known to be below the student’s stats, so those may also be default safeties if the student is shut out in April). Many students are fine with that, but some are not.</p>

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<p>This is all speculation without even a PSAT score in hand. We actually started with a list of 30 schools for our D (identified from going through the Fiske Guide to Colleges book with an eye toward her academic, size, and geographic preferences, and with her PSAT scores in hand). Narrowed it down to about 15, currently visiting, and she will probably apply to 8. Without the scores it doesn’t make sense to even be talking about ivys and schools like Johns Hopkins.</p>

<p>Also… if he wants to go to med school, there is something to be said for going to school where his GPA will be solid. GPA and MCAT score are what matter in the admissions process.</p>

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<p>The PSAT is only offered the 12th and 15th this year. I assume you meant he’s taking the PSAT next week…</p>

<p>I’d be waiting to more solidify schools until AFTER I had “in hand” scores of some sort - GPA alone is seldom enough. Since he’s a junior, he has lots of time.</p>

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<p>I am a risk averse person, and that partly comes from reading CC in March and April for years. So I think any school with an acceptance rate lower than 50% cannot be considered a safety, and I’d even suggest that going with at least one school that has a 60 or even 70% rate is smart. It’s even smarter to apply early action somewhere, because getting into a college that way means knowing your safety school is a lock really early, and then you can focus on those reach applications.</p>

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<p>@OP - </p>

<p>Not meaning to throw too much cold water on your son’s aspirations, but since he expects to do pre-med I would add- </p>

<p>Even though your son could end up getting into a reach school that will give him excellent need-based aid, I would also take a close look at honors colleges at less-selective schiools that might give comparable merit aid. He might end up having a much better experience in both “weeder courses” AND electives at such a school, because he can choose whether or not to take the honors version (med schools do not seem to care), and even if he takes the honors version, he might be more likely to take the class in a small setting with a professor specifically chosen for excellence in teaching the course material, and have better access to professors and tutors if he runs into trouble. </p>

<p>From what Frazzled kids and friends have noticed and reported, there can be a huge difference in difficulty in these weeder classes from one school to the next, and sometimes the class at the less selective school is much “easier” in spite of a more brutal curve. Medical schools don’t seem to care much where the course was taken. </p>

<p>Outisde of weeder courses, experiences in elective courses in social sciences and humanities can also be very different among schools. Many students at the most selective schools who want to keep their GPA’s up for med school often find themselves limited in the amount of intellectual exploration (over-loading, taking classes with the most interesting and challenging professors) they can accomplish outside of areas in which they are already most accomplished and best prepared.</p>

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<p>I think it really depends on the student’s stats as to what acceptance rate is safe enough. American University’s acceptance rate is 43.5%, but we felt perfectly comfortable using it as a safety since there wasn’t a single person from our high school who had been rejected with stats above or well below those of my son. Similarly we felt perfectly comfortable that our oldest who was graduating in the top 1% of his class would have no trouble getting into RPI (acceptance rate that year around 40% - it’s down to 36% now). Indeed he heard before Thanksgiving that he was in and in line for a merit scholarship.</p>

<p>fireanddrain is right of course that the safest safety is the one that you hear from early.</p>