Any thoughts on math major?

College Majors
41

<p>yeah but if HS math really is completely different from pure math, then clearly the OP would have no way of knowing whether or not he was actually good enough at college level, "theoretical" math to succeed.</p>

<p>now you could go about it like phuriku and throw an RA problem set in his face, to which he will probably respond, "what the f*** is this saying?" according to phuriku, this means he's not good or not talented enough to survive a pure math curriculum. when in actuality all it means is that he can't read real analysis because he HASN'T TAKEN real analysis.</p>

<p>i agree with foxdie in that all you really need is a passion and a certain degree of intelligence. many of what i would call 'normal' math majors (i.e. not U of C students) find RA to be their hardest class and is therefore not the most accurate guage of how hard the major is in general.</p>

42

<p>I love math but RA does not interest me in the slightest. Calculus is a near-constant bore to me... hard at times, trivially simple at times, but dry universally. Math isn't about algebra, trig., or calculus. It's a way of thinking about things. If you think the right way, math is a good major, even if you're terrible at certain fields of mathematics.</p>

43

<p>
[quote]
Do you like Rudin better than Spivak for analysis?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Rudin > Apostol > Spivak. I think they're all great in their own way, though.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Mathematicians in my experience have been humble and excited to introduce math to others. You do not fit that role one bit.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's called tough love. The fact is that math is hard. I've been more than happy to tutor many people in math (particularly the eager learners), but if someone really wants to enter into the math major, they must be aware of what they're getting into. Math is hard, and it shouldn't be taken too lightly, especially if you find that you're not understanding the material in high school.</p>

<p>In addition, if you see the content I showed, and your first thought is that you don't want to do that, then you're probably not right for the math major. If you get excited at first glance, I'd say you're right for it. That was part of my intention in showing the RA.</p>

<p>
[quote]

now you could go about it like phuriku and throw an RA problem set in his face, to which he will probably respond, "what the f*** is this saying?" according to phuriku, this means he's not good or not talented enough to survive a pure math curriculum. when in actuality all it means is that he can't read real analysis because he HASN'T TAKEN real analysis.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I've responded to this argument already, but apparently everyone has ignored it. If something doesn't look feasible for you, then it probably isn't. It doesn't matter if you don't know the content. In my statements, I assumed that the OP had already seen delta-epsilon proofs.</p>

<p>
[quote]
i agree with foxdie in that all you really need is a passion and a certain degree of intelligence. many of what i would call 'normal' math majors (i.e. not U of C students) find RA to be their hardest class and is therefore not the most accurate guage of how hard the major is in general.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Perhaps you're correct. I understand that my opinions might be biased by the math majors I've spoken to (who are either going to MIT, Harvard, or Chicago, or already have their PhD). I apologize if my comments have come off as arrogant, I really didn't intend them to sound that way.</p>

<p>But what would be a good example to show a potential math major what to expect as a math major in college? I still don't agree that combinatorics is a good example. Also, since it seems I'm unaware of the math content at "normal" universities, can someone give me an example? Is it more applied than pure?</p>

44

<p>
[Quote]
Also, since it seems I'm unaware of the math content at "normal" universities, can someone give me an example? Is it more applied than pure

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>No, but people don't need to be thinking about Analysis as freshman or even sophomores.
At Cornell they've had a bare minimum 2 semesters of analysis requirement since the beginning but they actually extended what they will consider to be "analysis" this year so that there are courses on PDEs and numerical methods on PDEs (in C++ probably) so that applied people can do their thing.</p>

45

<p>The RA you posted seems interesting. I bet I'll have to take some Analysis courses in Physics graduate degree.</p>

46

<p>Ok guys, I've read through this entire thread and to be honest with you, none of you seem very inviting toward prospective math majors. The reason I am concerned is because I am a junior math major at a top 30 university whom is just beginning to step into the world of real and complex analysis. I have done nothing but stellar in all previous courses (e.g. Calc I,II,III, and so on......), but should I be worried? I mean I have experience with epsilon and delta theories, but lets be honest, the original real analysis example posted looks Greek to me. Any insight or encouragement would be helpful. For example, has anybody been in the same position as myself and discovered that all the stress worrying about RA was a waste of time?? Or am I just doomed to fall out of these courses, switch my major to medieval poetry, and spend the rest of my life as a washed up intended math major working at the local library alphabetizing books?</p>

47

<p>where are you from, yucca?</p>

48

<p>I don't understand the post before mine....could you plz say it directlly.?</p>

49

<p>I am from Lehigh University and I am a prospective math major. I am just concerned about the math major in general because everyone seems to regard it as "immpossible" and I'm wondering how much harder it gets after Calc., Diff. Eq., ect....</p>

50

<p>Math is very possible. If you've done well and like math, especially proofs and logic, you'll do fine.</p>

<p>I'd like to take this opportunity to rant about math majors, though. This applies to most science majors, too... you guys are just crappy with computers. I work as an undergraduate research assistant for a physics professor, and my partner is an applied math major... and we're doing numerical work, and it's just mind-boggling how bad both the professor and the math major are at CS fundamentals. The physics professor might have some excuse - although, not really, considering that if I were a CS professor doing the same research as he was, I would probably learn a little physics first - but it seems criminal to me that a math major doesn't know, or seem to care, about CS at all.</p>

<p>Example: My partner doesn't know how to do file output. This is part of her job, mind you. So I have to do it.</p>

<p>Example: The professor doesn't understand OO techniques. So I'm stuck using multiple corresponding-index arrays and hard coding the same behavior over and over again.</p>

<p>Example: When our results looked fishy, the first place they looked was at a few simple functions I had written to clean things up as well as to save time and make things more efficient. And, wonder of wonders, they had gotten a single sign wrong, and my code worked flawlessly.</p>

<p>Example: The code they write looks horrendous. It pains me to read it. In my spare time, I often clean it up: inserting line breaks where appropriate, tabbing, alligning comments, adjusting white space, zeroing out variables, putting modifiers in the proper order, etc. They think this is adorable, but when I tell them that other people will look at this one day and it's akin to writing a proof using shoddy notation, they wave it off.</p>

<p>Example: They cannot appreciate the concept of efficiency. In one method we're using, there are 6 assignments where we're doing the following:
E* = (...) / (r * r * r);
I suggest making a variable inv<em>r3 = 1.0 / (r * r * r) and changing the code to
E* = (...) * inv</em>r3;
And they think it's just the cutest thing.</p>

<p>So, in a nutshell... math/science majors: please, if you're going to use computers, know what you're doing, for christ's sake. If we showed the code we're using to any of my CS professors, they would fail me on the spot for my being associated with that filth. Thanks.</p>

51

<p>Let's say you have a kid in engrg who now thinks maybe they don't want to do that anymore, but still loves math. They also find themselves stuck in Linear Algebra for engrs and that (how it took her til Oct to figure this out idk) it is a repeat of the Matrix Theory/Differential Equations she already took (read she is bored silly), and this math/engr prof doesn't like people who ask questions about how a formula works; thinks all you need to know is it does work. Kid also decided to not take honors calc 2 and 3, thus having to teach calc to herself from the proofs in the book cause the prof didn't do proofs in reg calc.</p>

<p>Now she thinks maybe she'll switch to math major cause most engrg students (she says) don't want to know why anything works, just how to use it. Kid can only learn the math by doing the proofs, even if it is teach yourself. Should she switch majors? This is just my gist of the long distance phone call; I didn't major in math. Kid slept thru AP Calc; got a 5 on the test.</p>

<p>Any ideas?</p>

52

<p>Like I said, I wasn't a math major. Got the info wrong. She hasn't had the Matrix/Differential Equations yet, but the engrg math is boring. She says she loved the delta-epsilon proofs in her hs calculus class and hated that the regular calc class didn't do them (or spend much time on them). If you love the delta-epsilon proofs (whatever they are), does that mean you'd make a good math major? She's always gotten staight A's in math, and also physics. Actually, straight A's in everything.</p>

<p>Any ideas?</p>

53

<p>Quicksilver,
Maybe it depends on the school. We visited our flagship program and math/CS majors were everywhere. The school makes it easy to double major and a lot of kids take them up on it.</p>

54

<p>CountingDown,
good for them! It warms my heart to hear that even math majors can refrain from hating on CS. <em>warmed</em>. Thanks for making my day super!</p>

55

<p>Can someone explain which is harder, applied math or applied physics? Thanks.</p>

56

<p>"Can someone explain which is harder, applied math or applied physics? Thanks."</p>

<p>I suppose that depends on the person.</p>

57

<p>Of course, individual capacity and aptitude is important. But keeping that aside, which subject is cognitively more difficult, or more abstract or intellectually more demanding?</p>

<p>I have been told physics is more difficult because it requires mastery of math and physics; also, that it is more abstract. Would this be accurate?</p>

58

<p>I don't think the two can be objectively compared in the way you're suggesting.</p>

<p>I would think applied physics would be less abstract than applied math. However, I also think applied physics would be less intuitive than applied math...</p>

<p>Applied physics only really requires a mastery of physics and knowledge of enough math to work with the science, if I were to guess wildly at it. Most Ph.D. physicists I know don't think like mathematicians, and don't have mathematicians' respect for the subject. I suppose the same could be said of Ph.D. mathematicians with respect to physics, though.</p>

<p>What one person finds difficult another person might find trivial. And what one person finds fascinating may bore another to tears. The only sort of answer I see existing to your question is a statistical one: check the BLS website and see whether there are more applied physicists or mathematicians. Then assume whichever field has fewer members is the harder of the two. Idk.</p>

59

<p>quicksilver, good points but I have been told the opposite, that physics is more abstract and requires more intuition. Notice that calculus was invented by a physicist to solve physics problems. Einstein it is said was not terribly good at math but had the intuition for physics. Of course, one could say that Ramanujam and Galois had an intuition for math and not for physics.</p>

<p>Could someone add further comments? What is BLS? Board of Labor Stats? But plentiful supply may be related to job market and not really a good clue. Thanks.</p>

60

<p>Yes. <a href="http://www.bls.gov/search/ooh.asp?ct=OOH%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bls.gov/search/ooh.asp?ct=OOH&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I'd say they go hand in hand. The more complex and abstract physics, the more complex and abstract math is required to solve or describe the physical properties.</p>