<p>Vinceh - I guess you articulated my point. But I would add to it just a little bit:</p>
<p>“Money has its priveledges and always will” - true</p>
<p>There is a limit to how much priviledge money does get. There is a valid discussion about what that should be, and if enough people get ****ed off about it, things can be changed. I guess right now, there are too many people in favor of the status quo, and there is no pressure to change it.</p>
<p>I guess what really bothers me the most is all the people on CC who claim that admissions is a fair process (not to mention the admissions officers at all these schools) and “oh by the way, my S/D got into XYZ school, clearly on merit”. Why can’t everyone admit that the process is rigged (to a certain extent) and then debate how it is rigged, how much it is rigged, and what, if anything, should be done about it?</p>
<p>The only way to change the system is to not buy into it. I think it would take a hugh boycott to get them to change. I doubt you would get enough people to do it. </p>
<p>Stop giving the Ivies so much power. They really don’t deserve it.</p>
<p>I’m an alum of three very highly selective schools and I think the last few threads are very-very far the reality I experienced.</p>
<p>I wrote a long reply but deleted it because I do not want to get into an argument … I just wanted to add a voice with a counter experience. In 7 years of school at top schools I can probably count on my fingers the number of students I knew who were over matched at the schools … and there certainly was no pattern that implies that any sub-group of students was being admitted who were not qualified.</p>
<p>Just to be clear. I’m an alum of Boston College and an Ivy. I’m not arguing that the students at the elite colleges aren’t qualified. I’m not even arguing against privileges in admissions. If you’ve given enough money to have a building named after you I have no problem with letting in some of your descendants the same way I have no problem admitting a slightly below standard quarterback as long as he succeeds in crushing the arch rivals. Quid pro quo.</p>
<p>I do have two problems with the current system. First is that money matters at all levels of the process. The academic statistics arms race has driven people from mundane Kaplan review classes to coaching on all levels. Ten years ago it was virtually unheard of to have students talking about highly paid college coaches prepping their applications, reviewing their essays and ludicrously identifying which sports and ECs set them up best for a chance at HYPMS, now it’s an accepted part of the process for a percentage of the applicant pool. For an increasing number of applicants it’s no longer just their merit but the merit of their support team. I realize that much of what is now coached was always available to the prep elite but it certainly seems that there’s been a commercialization of the entire process.</p>
<p>My bigger problem is the with the ridiculous hand wringing you see from parents and students who suddenly have to ‘settle’ for ‘sub-standard’ educations at ‘mediocre’ colleges. As if a degree from Michigan, USC, Carnegie-Mellon or Tulane somehow destines them to a career who’s high point will involve the words “do you want fries with that”.</p>
<p>Back when I attended BC it was a commuter school barely recognized anywhere past the Connecticut border. Yet I saw no difference in the quality of students attending there and the Ivy. Both had the same percentage of partying buffoons, BMOC jocks and socially inept nerds. The handful of elite schools that have become idolized don’t have any special information. Economics supply and demand curves have the same rules. Organic chemistry formulas are the same and credits still equal debits in the business school. I do have a problem with the idea that the school makes the student. The student makes themselves regardless of where they attend.</p>
<p>Here, here vinceh!!! My husband and I both graduated from the University of Southern Mississippi. My husband went to med school at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (Military medical school; very competitive admissions). His lab partners were graduates from Johns Hopkins, UMich, Duke and one other top school I can’t even remember… guess what? After graduating from USUHS, they were ALL called Doctor. We went to a school that probably isn’t considered top tier among public universities today, and we did just fine. All this hand wringing about college admissions is making me crazy. When did it happen that kids just packed up their crap the summer after hs graduation and left for the nearest state university? I just don’t get it at all.</p>
<p>Please do not feel bad. My son went through the same pain as you did. His scores, grades and achievements mirror yours very closely - some slightly better, some the same and some slightly worse. He applied to all the Ivies, UNC, UVA, UMich, UMD, Duke, WashU, George Washington. He was rejected at all the Ivies, accepted at UMich and UMD, and waitlisted at others. He was dejected for about 12 hours, then bounced back saying that he would accept the offer from UMich - his first choice after the Ivies. Like his counselor told him, applying for top colleges in the nation is like buying a lottery ticket. Every one applying has the same or similar credentials but only a few get in. Not getting into the college of your choice is not your loss but losing a student of your caliber is their loss. No matter where you go, you will be very successful in life. Do not dwell on the past, pick up and move on - You will do great as long as you do not lose your motivation to succeed. You do not need the endorsement of others (in this case the colleges that did not choose you). I wish you all the best in all your future endevors. Good luck.</p>
<p>Well, I am a mother of a junior. I’ve been encouraging her to apply to lesser known (tier 2) schools, where you can still get an excellent education, good pre-med, and perhaps some merit money. She really enjoyed a visit to Hendrix, but still thinking about Davidson and Duke, amongst others. She is in an IB program, has a 3.8, top 10%, etc., but admissions is a totally different game than when I applied over 30 years ago.</p>
<p>As a graduate of Bucknell, there were definitely a fair number of prep school students, some prepared and some not. The bulk of students (then and today), however, are coming from public schools. It think there was an NYT article a few years ago about that. There are many ways to get a great education.</p>
<p>These kids are hurting from the multiple rejections, not because of their abilities to compete, is the unfair admission policy that closes the door of their dream schools.</p>
<p>The college admission from Ivys is based on these six requirements: URM/Athlete/VIP/Legacy/Special-Talent/International, GPA/rank, SAT/ACT/AP Scores, Essays, References, ECs. If you not meet the first requirement, then you must have the high SAT and GPA scores – one of them must to be perfect. Otherwise you might not even be considered for the review by any private Ivy.</p>
<p>The public Ivys such as UCB, UCLA, and UNC use different admission policy. Since they are the public schools with tax money, the admission policy must follow the law, which is highly relay on the academic performance and local content policy. With lower priority of URM/Athlete/VIP/Legacy/Special-Talent/International, therefore many of you can be admitted by these public Ivies.</p>
<p>I hate to say, this trend is the reality of college admission, and it’s getting worse every year. Unfortunately, the admission practice from Ivies is legal at this time. IMO, the only way to stop it is to outlaw this Ivy’s admission policy.</p>
<p>The discussion here is about the unfair admission policy that results the multiple college rejections for these high school seniors, they deserve the explanations and need the answers. We are not debating which university is okay or not. A senior member in this forum – shame on you!</p>
<p>Could anyone provide any statistic data – what’s the percentage of admitted the students that are under the priority of URM/Athlete/VIP/Legacy/Special-Talent/International from the Ivies? The statistic would explain everything.</p>
<p>I was referring to the tiresome practice of calling state universities ‘Public Ivies’ as if such a thing truly does exist. In case I was misunderstood.</p>
<p>The statistics you seek are available online.</p>
<p>EastBayCA2D-
Not sure how you’d parse out those statistics, as many kids fall into more than one category. What would you do with the INTEL winner from North Dakota who’s also class valedictorian? How about the varsity lacrosse walk-on from Exeter with a 4.0 UW whose parents attended the university but who have never contributed to the annual fund? Even if they are given a slight edge wouldn’t they belong in the freshman class just as much as their totally unhooked peers with similar academic stats?</p>
<p>BTW, it’s usually harder, not easier for international students to gain admission to US universities than their US counterparts.</p>
<p>The ED option is a tremendous one but also possibly a riskier one than using the early admissions option to apply to non-binding EA universities which can still be VERY strong and competitive. My son was admitted to some great universities way back in November and thus entered the fray of the RD season willing to take some bigger risks with the reaches. It’s another approach.</p>