At least part of the increase in the cost of college is due to the effect of subsidies created by financial aid. If you are not paying a portion of the costs, you will tend to care a little less about the total cost. Similar thing happened with healthcare costs.
No, about two hours from UF, and I’m sure there was an asterisk when they were saying we had the best telescope in the whole world and I just didn’t hear the " *except for the one at UF." I’m sure they probably said we could use the one at UF if we wanted, because when you are on a tour, anything is possible. It became a joke because every single time we came close to the building, the coach/tour guide/professor/traffic director would refer to it “Over by the telescope building” “You can watch space launches from the roof with the telescope.”(they are 30 miles from Cape Kennedy, you don’t even need a telescope) “Have you been told about the telescope yet? It’s the best.” They are having a big eclipse party there. On the roof. With the telescope.
The point is, as blossom said, we all pay for things that we don’t use at the college but it still adds to the overall success of the school. I don’t think I ever set foot in the engineering building at my college, but I’m glad it was there. Never took a music class or dance class, but those added to the quality of the university. And we had telescopes and a planetarium, but I never used those either.
One school we looked at has some big seed depository for nuclear winter. I’m sure no student has anything to do with it, but it was part of the tour. That took second place to the Frank Lloyd Wright structures on campus, which were mentioned every 3 seconds. But it has no telescope.
Don’t worry your tuition dollars only pay for about 20 per cent of the costs involved. This whole thread makes almost no sense. Are the posters saying we should only pay for 18 per cent of the costs involved or are they trying to knock down phantom cost items.
As I said before I think college should be free for all as it is in most of Europe(As in Scandanavia France Germany Denmark etc)
Talk about making no sense. Nothing is free. And if you think it costs too much now, wait until you see what happens when its “free.”
In those places, it is free for those WHO QUALIFY FOR ADMISSION.
And in most cases, that means one must be at least in the top half academically by the end of middle school to even be in contention by attending an academically oriented college-track high school like the German Gymnasium/RealGymnasium(STEM oriented). If one fails to demonstrate one’s academic bona-fides by the end of middle school, one is likely to end up on one of many vocational tracks, apprenticeships, or sometimes, even be expected to start working an unskilled/low-skilled job right out of their equivalent to our 8th grade(moreso in the past than now).
In short, the proportion of 17-22 year olds able to avail themselves of free college in Europe is smaller than is the case here in the US.
A reason why higher ed is more expensive(higher demand…especially from those who are academically average or below average and more required Profs/admin support as a consequence(i.e. Remedial classes even in some elite universities whereas the mere idea of such would be considered absurd in Europe and many other parts of the world.
Over there, if one needs remedial admission, that alone is considered strong evidence one isn’t qualified to be admitted to university).
Also, some of those European systems are quite sink-or-swim* as the Profs have the expectation that the undergrad is much more responsible for the lion’s share of learning/keeping up in the class than Profs, admins, and an increasingly large number of parents…especially upper/upper-middle class parents.
- Recalled reading about one topflight French University in which up to 85% of students admitted at the beginning of the program are eliminated by the final year.
The issue imo is that college costs have been outpacing just about every other cost since the mid-70s I think. Even before college admissions got out of hand, they annually raised tuition eve though inflation was close to zero. And they would raise it by 5-10%, like almost all four year colleges do this even if they were not going to spend on buildings or hire a new coach. Just doing it because they could. Now, you can forget it, the supply demand totally favors the selective (even less selective ones) colleges and the number of people that are squeezed out will continue to get larger. These are the families who are not poor enough to get aid and not wealthy enough to pay the full ride.
Correct. A much lower percentage of Euro kids attend college as compared to the U.S.
In addition, “free” college in Europe does not typically include room and board. Most European colleges don’t have dorms. Most kids live at home and commute. Or they pay for their own food and lodging.
And the European college “experience” is extremely bare bones as compared to the U.S. No dorms, no dining halls, no sports teams, no student rec centers, etc.
“Free” college in Europe is relatively similar to a commuter community college here in the U.S.
This is overstating things in the other direction. Some countries such as Denmark actually pay a living stipend for university students on top of free tuition.
Also, university students get special discounts and even heavily subsidized rooms/apartment blocks earmarked for them which makes rooming substantially cheaper than market rate(Granted you’ll be commuting further, but that’s part of their dorming experience and not unlike a friend’s commute from his distant frat house to MIT during his undergrad). And in many cases, you will have your own room to yourself.
And European universities DO have dining halls which serve what several former European and American colleagues who attended recount as a reasonably good substantial meal comparable to a mid-end restaurant for an exceedingly nominal price(It’s currently 3 Euros in German universities). One downside is that those halls do get crowded as a result.
I don’t know too many places…especially in NYC and other urban areas where one can get a good substantial mid-end restaurant meal for $5-6.
@prof2dad In the case of Harvard and Princeton, they are NOT expensive for upper middle income families. You have to have an AGI substantially more than $200K a year to pay more than 10%. The vast majority of Americans do not make anything more than that.
But as has been said before, you don’t have to go to an expensive college. 95% of Americans don’t.
Re: 21
Admit rate is worth only 1.25% (0.0125) of a school’s overall score in the USNews ranking. (it’s 10% of the Student Selectivity category, which altogether is 12.5% of the total score. The other factors in the SS category are 1. test scores and 2. the percentage of enrollees who graduated in the top 10% of their HS class.)
I agree in principle with much of what you said, but if schools are trying to game USNews, dropping the admit % won’t do much.
Where do you get this information @exlibris97 ? I just put in $200K in Harvard’s net price calculator with NO assets and didn’t get anywhere close to 10%. Came out to about $44K/year.
edited to acknowledge the OPs point in the following post. This thread is not about net price at the *elite colleges, but about the real/perceived value across the spectrum of expensive colleges.
Don’t know why Harvard keeps getting mentioned in this thread. Not even close to being on point.
From the OP:
I knew someone whose parents did just this in the 80’s. They gave her the choice between money for a business or 4 years of college. She chose the business, a franchise of the wealthy father’s business, which being 18 and without any training in business or economics or substantial industry or managerial experience she proceeded to run into the ground despite her best efforts. Dad had to take over to prevent a total collapse. After that 4 years of college seemed like a better investment.
@Sue22: Your post reflects my thoughts and expectations. And buying him a house/condo presumes he wants to live in one single place or that he can somehow figure out the business of renting it out. No real options other than college. Grumble, Grumble, etc
It doesn’t have to be a $250,000 for 4 yrs’ college. There are plenty of options that come in around $80,000 for 4 yrs, and some even less. Truman State is an example of a more affordable smaller school. http://www.truman.edu/admission-cost/cost-aid/tuition-costs/ (and they offer automatic scholarships.)
Researching schools can yield affordable options. Grumbling? Why bother if you don’t take action to change the outcome?
@rwmannesq I have offered my kids the difference. Go to SUNY, when you graduate you have $50-60k to fund your first film… or house. S1 said no. Let’s see what the filmmaker S does.
Good points. There are a range of options in colleges. However, if a student limits their search to a private “dream school” and doesn’t qualify for financial aid it can be very expensive.
@foobar1: There’s an “or” that should be in there…
…or if circumstances dictate that the smaller private schools (even if not “dream schools”) are the best fit for the particular student, maybe there’s room to grumble a little.
The state options really aren’t for everyone, though generally I agree with all of you on this point. S20 won’t be part of this particular rant. :)>-
“…or if circumstances dictate that the smaller private schools (even if not “dream schools”) are the best fit for the particular student, maybe there’s room to grumble a little.”
Oh come on.
As all CC-ers know, the smaller private school is the king of the deep discount (aka merit aid). All CC-ers also know that the merit aid goes to the above average students. Luckily, every kid is above average somewhere.
I had a low, a medium and a high academic kid, and all three of them went to smaller private schools on a deep discount. But obviously the school for the high kid was a lot fancier than the school for the low kid.
Stop grumbling and start learning how to be a smart shopper. We’re all here to help. :">
Ouch! Needed that wake up call out, @northwesty.
Seriously, for a moment, it’s clear that one of our target schools will either discount the package OR we can fall back on a safety “smaller” UC.
But I’m a firm believer that just as soon as you’re happy with something, WHAM! Something else comes along and flattens you.
So, until it really comes true, grumble, grumble, to satisfy the Karma Gods. 