My younger sister’s starting the app process, but there’s a lot of frustration on both of our ends. I think she has a fear-of-failure. She’s not a very competitive applicant - middling to low GPA and test scores - but with extra curricular activities more typical of adult work experience. Like, she’s had recruiters accidentally try to head hunt her on Linkedin.
I created a starter list of schools and asked her to look into them - she didn’t. With summer nearing an end, I started researching myself and managed to excite her by finding a unique major and career path that fit her background and interests perfectly. She started doing some of the research and we compiled a spreadsheet of reputable, possible schools that had the major. Then she stopped being happy - she realized that these colleges weren’t her ideal and were still far from guarantees. For examples, she was upset with UT Austin for being “in Texas” and RPI for a low M:F ratio and suburban setting, even though both would be great for her (or at least good enough to apply to).
Eventually I convinced her to start writing essays for the schools she was interested in. After procrastinating a while, she called me up and said she had nothing to write about. I sent her some links to essays online and information about her newly intended career. She pitched some decent ideas and I was happy she finally started.
Last night, she got half way through the first draft before realizing it wasn’t turning out perfectly (as is normal). She deleted the essay and the spreadsheet of schools we worked on for days from google drive and told me she’d just be applying to the local California States, which don’t require essays. These are terrible options for her - she’ll get in, but they’re poorly ranked commuter schools with weak programs and graduation rates below 10%.
I’m a college grad and know the value of reputable universities both academically and socially, but I can’t get it through to her. I guess this is half a vent, half a request for advice and stories about other kids who struggled through the app process.
Hmm, well, a few things. My D had a difficult time getting through application season. She was a passionate learner, perfectionist, grade skipper, high test scores, stellar EC’s and references candidate but a difficult sophomore year brought her overall gpa down to a 3.6uw/4.2w. She felt she’d ruined her life at 14 and there would be no forgiveness. Everyone assumed she’d be heading off to Stanford or Harvard, even teachers who had never seen her whole transcript, but she knew her gpa was not acceptable and the fear of letting down all those people AND herself was overwhelming. Of course, I knew there was a place for her and had enough past experience with similar reactions to know that if we kept a firm hand on her back, she would thrive… and she did. She’s in a top 50 school as opposed to a top 20 but it’s a perfect fit even though most people go “where?” when she tells them where she is. Some things that helped, timed stream-of-conscience writing to get some ideas for essays. Limiting college talk to only a day or two a week. Applying to an early action school that built some self-esteem with quick acceptances. Of course, all that only worked because D had enough success over the years pushing through the fear (with and without our help) to know she could do it.
Not all kids should or CAN be pushed. Some will react with hostility and only hurt themselves more. In the end, you can’t force her through. You can’t pick her college or her major even if they would be perfect. If she only wants to apply to non-essay schools, appease her in the present. There are plenty of options. There are lots of excellent CSU schools that get unfairly trashed by their local community when they are excellent schools (there is a lot of factors in low graduation rates, particularly commuter schools where much of the student body is struggling to pay for school on their own.) She’s in CA making her eligible for the WUE program. Lots of OOS state options in the West without the full OOS costs. Schools like University of Iowa don’t require an essay and they have some surprisingly top notch programs and decent merit. Give her some of these options first. She does have a few months before most essay applications are due.
Consider that as a middling to low gpa student with an intense fear of failure, a competitive school may not be the best place for HER. She may do better in a lower stress school where she can be a big fish and feel successful. If she’s already being head-hunted, does she need to be at a name brand school? Sounds like she’s already doing a pretty good job in the adult world. In fact, she might like a commuter school with more older students and kids working in the adult world trying to get themselves through college. Be very careful not to make her feel that obtainable schools aren’t good enough for her. Instead, welcome them as great safety choices and keep encouraging her to look into “match” and “reach” schools as well.
OP, the problem with inserting yourself into this process is … where does it stop?
If she continues to balk and the essays are due tomorrow, will YOU write them?
If you get her past that step and it’s time to send in the test scores and she won’t do it…will YOU?
If you get the scores sent in and the apps all done and she gets into what you deem a “reputable” college, great…but then…
When the papers and the tests, etc. come flying at her, will you step in and rescue here again? Who will write those papers? Who will take those tests?
The college application process is, in itself, a great separator for those who are truly motivated and those who are not.
I’d like to know where the parents are in this too. OP, you and yuor sister may get along great, but you are NOT her parent and it is NOT up to you to ell her what to do, where she should or shouldn’t apply. And I have to tell you, that those schools you’re looking down your nose at might be exactly where your sister needs to go. Not everyone is interested in rank and prestige, and a lot of kids start at “weak” schools and either transfer or actually graduate and get real jobs. What was right for you was because it was for YOU, not your sister.
It’s also possible that your sister just isn’t ready to go to college. Being pushed into something she isn’t ready to do could end up in her dropping out and your parents losing money. My advice-have her talk to YOUR PARENTS about what she wants to do, where she wants to go and why. Then let THEM work out a solution for her. Unless you’re her guardian, stay out of it. My older D is nothing like my younger one and any advice she would give her would not suit her when it comes to school.
@turtletime You make a great point about not overwhelming her. She’s in a competitive friend group with who kids talk about college non-stop, so restricting college talk to a couple times a week is a great idea. I’ll encourage her to do the stream of consciousness writing and apply to some EA schools just for peace of mind. And Iowa’s a great school! I’ll ask her to look for more colleges without essays. Thanks so much for the advice!
“Be very careful not to make her feel that obtainable schools aren’t good enough for her. Instead, welcome them as great safety choices and keep encouraging her to look into “match” and “reach” schools as well.”
Definitely true. And, to anyone else who reads this - I by no means think that the CSUs aren’t good enough, it’s just that our local one doesn’t have the major or community she wants. If it was a different CSU she might fit better.
@thumper1 Our dad’s a somewhat absentee workaholic, and our mom’s version of “helping” is mostly putting her down and comparing her to family friends. Both are immigrants and don’t know much about the app process anyway - they learned about AP tests when my sister took them last spring, even though she was enrolled in the classes and I’d taken a number of them myself. Only the career counselor offers college app help, and she’s hard to get an appointment with.
@sseamom As I told thumper, our parents aren’t really much help in the college app situation. They don’t know the process and mostly recommend top ranked schools that she has no shot at because “so and so’s kid went there”. It’s possible she’s not ready to go to college, but I don’t know how to judge that. And it would be hard convincing our parents to bank roll whatever she does instead.
As for the CSU, it’s not that it’s a bad option for everyone - it’s just a bad option for her. Doesn’t have the focus she wants, internship opportunities, social opportunities, etc. If it was a school like SJSU it wouldn’t be as concerning. The schools on her list aren’t all highly ranked (there’s schools like Arizona State and UC Santa Cruz), they just have programs that fit her (techy, UX focuses, strong student community, etc.)
@prospect1 That’s definitely a good point. It’s difficult because she gets what she “needs” to do done - fundraising hundreds of thousands, publishing press releases in non-local media, etc. I’m not willing to force or demand she gets this done, so I guess it isn’t happening. Although maybe it’ll happen closer to deadlines when she feels an imperative.
Asister: I think it is great of you to try to help and guide your sister. The whole college thing is very overwhelming. and more so for some kids than others. I would like to suggest that perhaps some other schools besides UC schools with no essays could be in the mix? Sometimes it is about getting on the path, starting at a pace she is comfortable and safe with, then she can take risks near the end of the process. I would suggest that applying to a rolling admissions school is a good idea. She can apply and hear back before early action deadlines. Once accepted she can see herself as being wanted by colleges and having options and choices. That will be more fun then.
What precludes her from applying to SJSU? If she wants that vibe, she doesn’t have to go to the nearest school - you can apply to all CSUs you desire in one app. Is there a problem with moving away from home?
I think it is great you are helping her because this process is difficult. If your parents are not available to help or do not want to then your help is probably very needed. But, I think some of the other posters are correct in that she needs to be involved and she should be more concerned that you are. This is one of the most important decisions a person can make and even though I know high school seniors can be apathetic (I have one) she will be very upset if May comes and she does not have a college to attend. So, I would make a list of things she has to do (essays, get transcripts ordered, make a list of potential people to get recommendations from, etc) and tell her you will assist but starting the common app for instance. It is also good to have someone edit or check your essays for spelling errors, grammatical mistakes, and other issues. Good luck.
Sounds like your sister might be a candidate for a gap year. She has an obviously high achieving older sister - and I’m sure she feels highly inadequate every time you talk to her. She’s surrounded by peers who are also achievement oriented. She herself has what sounds like a demanding job that she does very well. Perhaps a year away from the pressure cooker that is her current life might benefit her (and you?). Once she’s been working for a year, the value of continuing her education should become more apparent. At that point, you can offer to help - or not if she feels she can do it herself. Read The Gap Year Advantage for ideas on how she can approach this and about how schools view this (highly favorably at many school including the most selective like Harvard).
Sometimes, when a student isn’t motivated to do something, it’s because it’s not the right time for them. Respecting that your sister isn’t going to do things the way you did would be a great kindness.
It’s possible that she’s intimidated by your success. And overwhelmed because even the good ideas seem to be YOUR good ideas and not hers-- as though she’s not capable of deciding anything for herself.
I understand your wanting to help. But maybe a less “in your face” kind of help would make a difference.
Here’s what I did with my son for his Common App essay:
Day 1: we looked at the Common App prompts and he brainstormed for 5 minutes on each topic. No holds barred, no reaction at all on my part.
Day 2: I asked him for a ballpark idea of what he would say about each of the ideas from the day before. A few were tossed out as unworkable. Vocab. spelling, none of that mattered, just a sentence or two on each idea.
Day 3: He chose his essay and wrote his first draft.
At this point, I would suggest you back out and suggest she submit her draft to her English teacher to proofread first. That way, you’re instrumental in the organization, but the criticism isn’t coming from her all too perfect older sister.
OK, let’s talk colleges. Find her a few College Match sites, including the one on this site. Encourage her to play with things like school size and setting.
Do you have time before school starts to actually visit a school or two? My son found that actually seeing the schools made his preferences a whole lot more obvious. Find a school you like that’s within a 2 hour drive. Tell her you’re not really going to see THIS school so much as to see what her preferences seem to be. Take the tour, and YOU take the notes while she’s free to form an impression. Then, when you get into the car, find out what she liked and disliked. It will help guide her search, and probably get her excited about the possibilities.
I guess my point is that you should be the one acting as a facilitator, to find out what SHE wants. It’s hard to hold your tongue, but you’ve got to give her the time and the silence to determine what it is she wants… even if you could have predicted what she would eventually choose.
At first I thought my son lacked the motivation to get the application process moving along. I realized later that he was extremely motivated, just acting on his own timeframe. He is a procrastinator, so it was driving me crazy that nothing was getting done, and I (incorrectly) assumed he was unmotivated, which panicked me. But once the time got closer to the deadlines, suddenly he sprang into action and got everything done in time. So the lesson learned was that, things may not be as they seem, especially when seen through the eyes of someone who is wired differently!