Anyone had experience with BU's PROMYS program?

Parents Forum
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<p>Critter:</p>

<p>Hampshire is considered an excellent program. I was recently sent some information about a very prestigious undergraduate research summer program. The head of the program specifically says he favors kids who attended PROMYS or HSSIM and/or have participated in Olympiads. Since Hampshire College is pretty much in the middle of cornfields, it's a very different experience from the urban environment of BU.<br>
Re your D not being sure about a math career: Larry Summers has claimed that he started as a math major but switched to economics when he saw how bright other math majors were. Math classes in fact include many economics majors. There are a number of careers that are math heavy and do not involve sitting in a cubicle. My H works in a firm that is filled with economists. The set-up is open platform, which may be worse than cubicles as far as privacy is concerned, but they all seem to get along fine and socialize quite a bit.
Harvey Mudd is an EXCELLENT math school. One of the profs there wrote a book, Mathemagics, which launched my S on his math quest. One of my S's PROMYS friends will be going there this fall and is very excited about his choice.<br>
If your D does not need to access advanced classes, there are some terrific LACs with very strong math departments: Williams, Swarthmore would be at the top of my list; Carleton, Colby not far behind. </p>

<p>After Calculus in 8th grade, my S took Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra. That is a fairly standard sequence. Because of scheduling issues, he then took courses that fitted his high school schedule rather than what ordinary undergraduates would have taken, which is real and complex analysis and abstract algebra. Instead, he took a course in classical geometry and another in mathematical probability. These are normally considered undergraduate courses. When he goes to college he will take the courses he did not have a chance to take before, but I'm not sure about the abstract algebra course. He's been complaining that the seminar on algebra at PROMYS is going a bit slow and covering stuff he already knows. So manybe he's picked up knowledge from different sources, more specifically his Math Circle classes.
S is indeed very happy to be back at PROMYS. I've calculated that his circle of friends makes up about 1/8 of the participants. It makes for a lot of socializing.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I was interested to learn that some of you feel that there is not enough depth to the math programs at the Claremont colleges. I thought that Pomona and Mudd had many math majors and sent many to grad school. Isn't there a grad school in that group? I have also read that Davidson is strong in math and that they too send a large percentage of grads to doctorate programs. Has anyone else heard this? It's such a small school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Critter - all of those schools would be excellent choices for all but the handful of truly exceptional kids in the country who finish most of the undergrad math courses while still in high school, and who will need a hefty selection of grad courses and high level research opportunities while they are undergrads. There are probably only 20-30 high school seniors in the entire country whose math needs could not be met at any of the fine undergraduate math programs you mention. It just happens that you are hearing from some parents in this thread who have kids in that group. But it certainly is not the norm, even for future math majors. </p>

<p>Typical required undergrad courses for math majors would be single and multivariable calc, differential equations, linear algebra, real analysis, complex analysis, abstract algebra. Common additional courses would include number theory, topology, maybe some sort of logic course. All of those courses would be available at any college with an undergraduate math major.</p>

<p>There is a useful description of the courses after calculus, and discussion of order, on the EPGY site, here:
<a href="http://www-epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/univ.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www-epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/univ.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Critter,
If you want more information on the Hampshire camp, I suggest you contact Mr. Karafiol via the Chicago ARML website. He was both a camper and a counselor there.</p>

<p>Since your daughter is young, you might want to consider one of the all-female math or engineering camps from the AMS website. Although they may not have the most advanced mathematics of all the camps, the supportive environment could make up for it. I would also consider a nearby camp for the first experience. It's much easier on the parents! Plus, the more local the camp, the more likely she will be to find a circle of math friends, people she'll see at regional or state tournaments through the year.</p>

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<p>Critter,</p>

<p>Rising 9th is definitely OK for PROMYS. S actually went there after 7th, but he already decided to skip 8th, so we listed him as a rising freshman in the application. By that time, S had passed Calculus and audited 4 university Math classes, so his Math preparation level was definitely high enough for PROMYS.</p>

<p>Yes, we are dealing with some exceptional kids here... Although I believe there are more kids who have comparable abilities, but they were not lucky enough to live in a flexible school district or to be homeschooled... I am pretty sure that if our D didn't have to take Algebra in 8th grade (highest possible level at the school district we then resided), but was allowed to work at her level instead, her Math development could be pretty similar to that of her brother... That's why I don't think your questions are stupid or anything like that, just the opposite. If I knew then what I know now, D's development might be quite different, and she'd have more choices in her life.</p>

<p>Texas's link to EPGY list shows all the usual courses undergrads take. Schools like TJHS have many of these courses in their schedule. In addition, kids can take courses in the areas of special interest. S audited or took Multivariable Calc, Linear Algebra, Game Theory, Graph Theory, Hypergraphics (programming-heavy course at Math dept), 3 different Analysis courses, Numeric Analysis (more into Applied Math direction) and 3 CS courses. His choices were also heavily restricted by scheduling problems, so he is looking forward to taking whatever he really wants to take when he becomes a full-time university student. </p>

<p>btw, I heared that Duke, Rice and Princeton can provide the small-environment atmosphere just fine, so they could kind of substitute for LACs... Another way would be to find a LAC which has cross-registration with a larger university, or a LAC where professors will be willing to arrange individual study at grad level.</p>

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<p>So interesting to read about the math progression of younger kids (8th grade, etc.) taking college-level courses. How wonderful!</p>

<p>Marmat--I don't know for sure, but I think my son's in a similar position as your daughter. He's got a photographic memory and learns math lightening fast. We enrolled him in a summer CTY distance learning program after 6th grade, but it was almost of no use, because he was locked into the traditional math schedule that our district offers during the year. </p>

<p>He's always been at the top of his school in math and slightly bored (it seems) but there was always the thought---where else is there to go? </p>

<p>He's finally getting a bit of a challenge doing Alg II and geom in 8th grade, but again, he'll enter HS <em>repeating</em> that to a great extent (arg) because that's the highest level that the school offers to 9th graders.</p>

<p>Is it too late to try and give him some of the opportunities that some of the kids here have exercised---going at a quicker pace? We've been doing some online AME (I think) math problems for fun (tho I'm an English major). Maybe testing out of 9th grade math? </p>

<p>Thanks <em>so</em> much!!! I've learned tons about what is <em>possible</em> on this site.... :-)</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>The mix at MathPath is about half problem-solving math of the kind you might see in a competition program, and half lectures on theoretical topics that even some undergraduate math majors would miss (e.g., history of mathematics, hyperbolic geometry). There seems to be plenty of challenge for everyone. In answer to a question that was passed on to me by another parent, my son says the MathPath atmosphere is not competitive, but mutually helpful. The students are all there to learn together. The atmosphere seems to be quite supportive of the girls, too. </p>

<p>Yep, I'm a fifth-generation Minnesotan, and a grandson and son of St. Olaf alumni (also a grandson of a Carleton alumnus). You can read about St. Olaf's reputation as a math school in A</a> Mathematician's Survival Guide: Graduate School and Early Career Development by Steven G. Krantz. Certain otherwise not world-famous LACs simply have very well thought-out undergrad math programs, and St. Olaf is one of them. I would dearly like to get circulation privileges at the libraries of Carleton and St. Olaf (which share an excellent online</a> catalog) to pursue research for some of my writing projects.</p>

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<p>tokenadult--that sounds like an interesting book (mathematician's survival guide...).</p>

<p>I just called my son's HS math dept head (inspired by the stories here!!!) to see if he can test out of honors Alg II and geometry, for which he's scheduled next year. Son is on board w/the possibility. If he takes these "honors" courses, he will still be repeating what he learned last year (a 1/2 year of each). We already have some books on both those subjects, so he could maybe blow through them over the summer...</p>

<p>He's got a buddy who's up for the challenge too...so maybe it will work out. I'm shocked after looking thru his HS academic offering book a few mins ago---there are no adv. math classes beyond AP Calc!</p>

<p>One question (for those who's kids took college courses during HS)--do you think it matters what college at which they take classes? We have a community college within five minutes of us, a state college within 15 minutes, and two prestigious Ivy-leagues within 35 mins. Not sure...</p>

<p>Thanks again for the inspiration!</p>

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<p>Jolynne:</p>

<p>The overwhelming majority of schools do not have classes beyond AP Calc. So some improvisation is necessary. In our area, high schoolers can take classes at the Harvard Extension School, and many do. In other places, they can take classes at their local university or community college. If these are not located nearby, it may be possible to take online classes through EPGY or UT-Austin. One student in our high school did an independent study class after she finished Calculus in 10th grade.
I hope that your high school allows your son to test out of the Honors AlgII and Geometry. Some of my S's schoolmates were able to go into Precalc as 9th graders but they'd started taking 9th and 10th grade classes at the high school while still in elementary school, so they did not have to take pre-tests.
Just do not succumb to arguments that if your son already knows the materials, he can help the teacher teach the other students, or expressions of concern that he will run out of math classes if he takes precalc in 9th grade. One year at a time has been our motto.</p>

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<p>Wow, thanks for that encouragement, Marite. Amazing that your son's schoolmates were taking 9th & 10th grade classes in elem---interesting to see what's possible, given the opportunities.</p>

<p>I'm going to check into extension programs (I guess...since you mentioned that's what you utilized...) for Princeton & U of Penn, which are each w/in about 1/2 hour of us. </p>

<p>The community college is so convenient, though (5 mins)---do you think it matters much <em>where</em> the high schoolers take the courses? </p>

<p>One more question, if I might! For those who've done work at home w/their kids---did you use actual textbooks? We have next year's math books, but son's friend picked up some math summary books at Borders on alg II & geom (about 1/2 inch thick) which he'd planned to review. Would these be as good as the actual text books? The seem a lot more manageable. :-)</p>

<p>Again, many thanks for the ideas....</p>

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<p>For AP Calc, it does not really matter where high schoolers take the class; the AP score will be the true gauge. I expect the same applies to Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra, which are fairly standard courses.</p>

<p>A couple of considerations: 1. scheduling.<br>
a. If the classes are evening classes, does it mean that your S will be expected to take the full schedule of classes in the high school and that the college class will be on top of that? If so, your son must be comfortable with taking an extra heavy load.
b. If the classes are daytime classes, how easy will it be to reconcile the college and the high school schedule? What compromises must be made in order to accommodate the college classes.
2.Transport: Will the college be within walking distance? If transport is needed, who will provide it?
3. GPA and class rank: How will the college grade be computed? The grades of my S's college classes were turned into Pass/Fail; since he graduated early, he was unranked. But GPA and class rank may matter to some students when applying to colleges.</p>

<p>On the issue of textbooks, I cannot help you there. My S skipped Algebra and Geometry. We bought him a Precalc textbook, which he finished in one semester; the 7/8 grade teacher then lent him a copy of the Calc textbook which the district uses--which saved us $100.</p>

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<p>textbooks - the first "real" textbook my son used was for multivariable calculus in 10th grade. Basically you just spritzed math in his general direction and he "got" it, w/o a lot of traditional instruction. He played a lot of math board games and computer games (like Algebra Blaster) in elementary school. He used materials geared towards competition during middle school, and worked with a math grad student tutor who just messed around showing him interesting math stuff. He started attending Mathcamp the summer after 8th grade. He used algebra, trig, and calc "The Easy Way" books by Doug Downing in an overlapping and repeated way during about 4th-8th grades, and a book of old calc AP exams to prepare for the BC exam during 9th grade. He did multivariable and linear algebra by distance learning in 10th grade. His only actual traditional math classes are the grad courses he took in 11th & 12th grades, which basically built on the topology and abstract algebra he had at Mathcamp. He self-studied differential equations during the first part of 12th grade, using materials from MIT OpenCourseWare.</p>

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<p>Jolynne Smyth:</p>

<p>Our school district did not allow kids to test out... :( The only option for acceleration for D was Geometry in summer school. And highest offering in High School was Calculus AB, they did not open a BC class despite the fact that several kids begged for it, and the teacher was ready to teach them (but she was lucky to have that teacher - he taught the kids all the BC chapters at before-school gatherings, so all of them were able to pass the BC instead of just taking AB test).</p>

<p>Good luck to your S and his friend!</p>

<p>It's not so easy to take classes at a university: many universities just do not allow kids younger than some cut-off age; or they only allow those who applied and was accepted as a part-time student (for example, at Rutgers the application process for part-timers is exactly the same as for full-time students); or they only allow the kids from schools, which have an agreement with this particular university. So you better find out what's possible in your school district. I know that people from Philly were able to take classes and get credits at UPenn, but I also vaguely recall that some kids in PA were not able to take community college classes earlier than in 11th grade... Our cc in NJ, on the other hand, will serve any kid who can pass placement test and who will bring the permission slip from his school. The Extension program (CAP) in Princeton does not allow to take classes there if the kid is currently in High School. Dropout is OK.</p>

<p>I agree that it's quite all right to take Multivariable Calc, Linear Algebra and Diff Eq anywhere, including community college; but c. colleges don't usually have anything higher than that. The quality of the course heavily depends on the teacher: and it might happen that there will be a fine professional teaching the class at cc, but a random TA teaching at a university (disclamer: I have nothing against TAs, was one myself...)</p>

<p>You also might want to discuss with your school the possibility of taking classes beyond Calculus through EPGY: many districts give credits for that, and some even pay the tuition. S of our friends is taking CTY classes online, and unlike your S, he does not have to follow the regular school curriculum: he has those classes INSTEAD of regular Math, not in addition to it.</p>

<p>As for the books, S also skipped (from Algebra to Calculus in his case), and all he did for all the subjects in between was working with the Art of Problem Solving books and reading through Jacobs's Geometry. I would not recommend this for any kid, but it worked just perfect for ours... If you are worried about possible "gaps", there's an online system ALEKS (<a href="http://www.aleks.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.aleks.com&lt;/a&gt;) where you can just test him for free. And maybe enroll for a month and pick up whatever he's missing. S's favourite book for Calculus was Calculus the Easy Way by Downing (as well as Downing's two previous books: Algebra and Trigonometry)</p>

<p>BTW, I highly recommend *Art of Problem Solving<a href="two%20books%20and%20two%20%22solutions%22%20volumes">/i</a> to any kid interested in Math competitions. One can buy them at the web site recommended by Texas, and I believe they are available at Amazon now.</p>

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<p>Oh, I was too slow: Texas recommended Downing already. </p>

<p>Well, what can I say? Probably they ARE very good books. </p>

<p>AoPS, Downing and Epstein's Thinking Physics were indispensable resourses for our S and probably shaped his way of thinking...</p>

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<p>Returning to the original topic (camps). Collection of links...</p>

<p>First of all - Collegeconfidential! <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=26515&page=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=26515&page=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Lists of camps:
<a href="http://tbp-highschool.mit.edu/highschool/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://tbp-highschool.mit.edu/highschool/&lt;/a> MIT list (outdated, but still useful; my favourite list)
<a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_Programs.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_Programs.php&lt;/a> Artofproblemsolving list
<a href="http://www.ams.org/outreach/mathcamps.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ams.org/outreach/mathcamps.html&lt;/a> AMS list
<a href="http://cty.jhu.edu/imagine/links_104.htm#summ%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cty.jhu.edu/imagine/links_104.htm#summ&lt;/a>
<a href="http://cty.jhu.edu/imagine/linkA4.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cty.jhu.edu/imagine/linkA4.htm&lt;/a> summer programs (CTY list)
<a href="http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/summer.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/summer.htm&lt;/a> Hoagiesgifted list
<a href="http://www.nagc.org/summer/intro.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nagc.org/summer/intro.html&lt;/a> NAGC list
<a href="http://www.pymath.com/ListMathCamps.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pymath.com/ListMathCamps.php&lt;/a> list by state (Math)
<a href="http://www.sciserv.org/stp/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sciserv.org/stp/&lt;/a> searchable directory (Science)</p>

<p>Math/science and other camps in addition to those mentioned previously:
<a href="http://www.mtsibase.com/sharp/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mtsibase.com/sharp/&lt;/a> NASA SHARP research apprenticeship, 10 grade and older
<a href="http://www.tellurideassociation.org/tasp1.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.tellurideassociation.org/tasp1.html&lt;/a> TASP (Telluride Association), humanities, 6 weeks, 11 grade, FREE
<a href="http://www.rockefeller.edu/outreach/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rockefeller.edu/outreach/&lt;/a> - similar to RSI
<a href="http://www.umsl.edu/%7Esep/stars.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.umsl.edu/~sep/stars.htm&lt;/a> - Midwest; research
<a href="http://www.asminternational.org/Content/NavigationMenu/ASMFoundation/Materials_Camp/StudentsMaterialsCamp/2005_Camp_Information/2005_Camp_Information.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.asminternational.org/Content/NavigationMenu/ASMFoundation/Materials_Camp/StudentsMaterialsCamp/2005_Camp_Information/2005_Camp_Information.htm&lt;/a> Materials Science, 1 week, FREE, different locations
<a href="http://www.mathismylife.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mathismylife.org/&lt;/a> - CMST (that was S's first camp, and it was very good. Alas, no funding... looks like there is no camp this year :( next year, maybe?)
<a href="http://www.internaldrive.com/courses.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.internaldrive.com/courses.htm&lt;/a> - IDTech
<a href="http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/cosmos/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/cosmos/&lt;/a> COSMOS (CA)
<a href="http://math.stanford.edu/sumac/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://math.stanford.edu/sumac/&lt;/a> SUMaC (CA)
<a href="http://www.hillsdale.edu/academics/sciencecamps.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hillsdale.edu/academics/sciencecamps.asp&lt;/a> Hillsdale College, Michigan (primarily for Michigan residents), Bio, Chem/Phys, Math, 1 week, FREE
<a href="http://www.earthwatch.org/education/student/scap/nominate.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.earthwatch.org/education/student/scap/nominate.html&lt;/a> - Earthwatch Student Challenge Awards Program (science/ecology) school should nominate; 2- or 3-week projects in summer; paid travel/expences
<a href="http://studentservices.engr.wisc.edu/diversity/esp/program.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://studentservices.engr.wisc.edu/diversity/esp/program.html&lt;/a> UW-Madison; Engineering; for minorities and women; 7 weeks, residential, $350
<a href="http://www.ceramicmaterials.rutgers.edu/NMSE/intern.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ceramicmaterials.rutgers.edu/NMSE/intern.php&lt;/a> Rutgers, internship, Nanomaterials (don't know who's eligible)
<a href="http://www.alfred.edu/summer/html/hs_inst_.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.alfred.edu/summer/html/hs_inst_.html&lt;/a> , NY residential 1 week Science, Astronomy, Writing, Entrepreneurship
<a href="http://www.kopernik.org/summerscience/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kopernik.org/summerscience/index.htm&lt;/a> Kopernik Observatory , NY, Astronomy
<a href="http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/%7Edougproj/dp_precollege_programs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dougproj/dp_precollege_programs.html&lt;/a> Rutgers, NJ, for girls entering 8 grade; 1 week
<a href="http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/ysp/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/ysp/&lt;/a> Rutgers, Young Scholars Program in Discrete Mathematics
<a href="http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/mmss/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/mmss/&lt;/a> UMichigan; Chem-Phys-Math-Astro-Ecol-Bio etc; 2 2-week sessions;</p>

<p>Intro Engineering, especially for girls:
<a href="http://youthprograms.mtu.edu/programs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://youthprograms.mtu.edu/programs.html&lt;/a> - Michigan; 1-week explorations (some free)
<a href="http://www.engr.uiuc.edu/wyse/EYO/eligibility.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.engr.uiuc.edu/wyse/EYO/eligibility.html&lt;/a> UIUC, current 9, 10, 11 graders, 1 week, scholarships for girls
<a href="http://www.eng.umd.edu/wie/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.eng.umd.edu/wie/&lt;/a> UMD, 1 week; girls
<a href="http://www.wpi.edu/Admin/Diversity/Girls/Gems/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wpi.edu/Admin/Diversity/Girls/Gems/&lt;/a> - Boston
<a href="http://engineering.udayton.edu/wie/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://engineering.udayton.edu/wie/&lt;/a> - Dayton
<a href="http://www.eng.uc.edu/prospectivestudents/summercamp/women/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.eng.uc.edu/prospectivestudents/summercamp/women/&lt;/a> Cincinnati
<a href="http://csserver.evansville.edu/%7Eoptions/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://csserver.evansville.edu/~options/&lt;/a> IN</p>

<p><a href="http://www.lrsm.upenn.edu/outreach/#summer%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lrsm.upenn.edu/outreach/#summer&lt;/a> Upenn, FREE , 4 weeks, Summer Course in Materials Science
<a href="http://www.njit.edu/old/PreCollege/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.njit.edu/old/PreCollege/index.html&lt;/a> - NJIT; some programs are unusually cheap
<a href="http://www.du.edu/education/ces/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.du.edu/education/ces/index.htm&lt;/a> University of Denver</p>

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<p>The Art of Problem Solving books are great. I second that recommendation. I suspect the online courses are also good, but don't know anyone who has actually done those.</p>

<p>Our local CC used to allow high school juniors and above to take classes, and tons of them do. They used to get some very young (14-15) homeschoolers calling themselves "juniors". The kids all did fine academically, but there were concerns about the liability involved in students that young being unsupervised in a setting meant for adults. Now they have an age limit of 16. The 4-year local university has a very limited dual-enrollment program for high schoolers. Students have to apply and be accepted, and only limited courses and departmetns are options. My son went thru the acceptance process, but figured out they weren't going to let him register for anything he was actually interested in taking. Hence the auditing of grad courses, which worked out great. He took 6 different courses over 2 years. All of the teachers would have allowed him to submit homework and take exams, but he only actually did that for 3 of them. For the others he just attended classes and got out of it whatever he got out of it, w/o being concerned about covering a particular set of material.</p>

<p>Woah, Marmat! Great list of links! (our posts crossed)</p>

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<p>Marite, Marmat and texas---thanks <em>so</em> much for all that valuable info. I'm writing down the titles of all those books. And the other considerations (timing of classes, grading, etc.) are extremely helpful in evaluating everything!</p>

<p>So interesting how some of your kids just took off running w/the math info once a bit was presented. I thought my son might have some capability in that area--my hub & I taught him long division on a car ride when he was 8 and thought it was something...lol. But then again, there's not a math wiz in our house to faciliate him...I'll have to make my best attempts...!</p>

<p>I did some phone calling---U of Penn won't accept anyone younger than a junior, but our NJ community college will (they have 10 year olds taking classes there, they said!). You just need guidance counselor's approval. </p>

<p>I'm second-guessing the idea of testing out, now, though (have call into HS on topic...). Wondering if throwing son into pre-cal in 9th grade might negatively impact his GPA (thinking college-wise, for what that's worth...). Maybe better to have straight As in the highest level classes than try to stretch & jump ahead? Not sure....</p>

<p>Guess we'll see how the summer goes---now that we have all those good books to delve into. I had him reading some books on Fermat's last theorum and Richard Feynman but these will be more substantive! Just glad he finds the academic interesting (still...!)!</p>

<p>Texas--so your son did not find it restricting to be taking more basic courses while auditing more advanced work? That's interesting! I had always thought---what's the point of going 'beyond' if you'll be dragged down by your dailiy classwork? Maybe that's not the case re: math! :-)</p>

<p>Fabulous camp list, btw, thanks for posting that, marmat!!!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Texas--so your son did not find it restricting to be taking more basic courses while auditing more advanced work? That's interesting! I had always thought---what's the point of going 'beyond' if you'll be dragged down by your dailiy classwork?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>we're homeschoolers. Multivariable, linear algebra, and diff equations were done via distance learning. Son just got thru them as quickly as he could to check off those boxes, but didn't spend a lot of time on any of them. (We tried not to let school work interfere too much with his real education.)</p>

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<p>Jolynne:
Texas, Marmat and I have very different experiences. Mine may be a bit closer to yours. The Extension School does not seem to have age limits and has welcomed a few young homeschoolers.<br>
My S did a combination of Extension School classes and auditing of ordinary College classes. The Extension School classes did not require scheduling accommodation but were on top of the normal workload. Auditing daytime classes required quite a bit of scheduling flexibility, but made for the same number of classes as other highschoolers. As well, the instructors had to be willing to allow S to attend, to do all the quizzes and homework and all the tests, and to grade them, even though the grades were altered to Pass on his high school transcript. The Extension SChool classes carried undergraduate credit, but he won't be using them to get Advanced Standing, just to place out of introductory classes.
As far as GPA is concerned, each school or district handles things differently, and each student reacts different to academic rigor. Our S does best when he is challenged and engaged and often blows off easy work. We did tell him that he should not worry about getting top grades or compare himself with college juniors and seniors but to do his best. As long as he kept up and was comfortable, that was fine. He also always had the option of going down a notch if the class proved too challenging, and we made sure to tell instructors so when they expressed concern about his youth and possible lack of preparation.
The schools in which he was interested are familiar with homeschoolers and students who take college classes while in high school, so they were not concerned about the fact that his GPA was not of the highest. Nor were we. I could think of situations where a high GPA and class rank might matter, such as scholarships that go to vals. This was not an issue for us. My S would rather take challenging classes in which he feels he is learning something new at a pace he is comfortable with then relearning stuff he already knows at a snail pace. He is also not easily flustered and is a good test taker.
We tried to work things out in the Spring rather than in the fall, to let the GC, instructors, principal, etc... get used to the idea and try to work things out. In our school, schedules are set some time in April, although there is a lot of reshuffling in September. This is about the time that colleges work out their course offerings for the following fall, so it worked nicely. It also allowed us to do a lot of negotiating.</p>

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<p>That's interesting, texas! Good for you re: the homeschooling! :-) That's a real undertaking!</p>

<p>Was there a certain distance learning school/program you found to be good/worthwhile? Our JHopkins distance learning was less than stellar. Plus, then we were thrown back into the slow-track regular school. I guess you'd have to be an 'official homeschooler' to get to opt out of traditional HS programs because of distance learning?</p>

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<p>Marite,
Thanks for that perspective! So, it sounds like challenging coursework at college level (even pass/fail) really worked for your son, both content-wise and in terms of transcript/college. I guess your son (w/his evident abilities) applied to highly selective colleges, and they understood/valued the college credit in HS?</p>

<p>My son's been on the traditional (& fairly unchallenging) track for so long (not knowing there was anything else out there) that I'm not 100% sure that college level courses would be an ace for him. Can't imagine how it would play, personally, either...</p>

<p>Then again, he tests pretty well also (just got 660 M, 670 CR on the SAT at end of 8th grade, for whatever that's worth...)</p>

<p>Again, appreciate the great insights/experiences! :-)</p>