Anyone sending their education major to a private school?

<p>How about the quality of teaching education? At which school does one learning cutting edge methods and from which school is one most likely to become an outstanding teacher? It seems a shame- and a disgrace to the the profession- if it’s just about where to get the easiest or most hassle-free credentials. </p>

<p>I read this great article in the NYTs today about teacher education. What a godawful sorry state it is in. After reading this, if my child wanted to be a teacher, I think I’d encourage them to look at U of Michigan. </p>

<p>[Building</a> a Better Teacher - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07Teachers-t.html?hpw]Building”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07Teachers-t.html?hpw)</p>

<p>Back when our older D announced that she: A) Wanted to be an elementary-school teacher and B) Had her heart set on Loyola Marymount, a private university, my husband had the expected knee-jerk reaction: “Great, so we’ll spend $45,000 a year so you can make $35,000 a year.”</p>

<p>He knew right away that he was just reacting. Today she is at LMU en route to becoming a teacher. Thanks to grandparents and saving, we can swing it with considerable sacrifice but no debt. LMU has an excellent program that will have her credentialed upon graduation, and she is likely to stay for the 5th-year masters’ program.</p>

<p>All this to be an underpaid teacher of 7-year-olds? Yes, yes and yes. We are witnessing the quality of education she is getting, not just in her major but in the liberal arts. We are seeing how this education and environment are helping her mature and be a wise and thoughtful citizen of the world. She is excited about ideas and intelligence, she has superb relationships with her professors, and she is part of a community that cares about her, and she returns that care.</p>

<p>I can think of no better thing to accomplish with this expensive private education than to go out into the world and help 7-year-olds become caring, competent citizens who make this world a better place to live in.</p>

<p>If my daughter were dead set on being a teacher someday and would remain so for the rest of her life, then I would think hard about investing 200,000 in her education in order to earn 35-50,000/year. College degree has two purposes, one is for the education sake and another is to obtain a job later. As we have all discussed it to death on CC, most people believe one could get same or equal quality of education in any school (it’s what one makes of it). I happen not to believe in that, but most CC’ers have said it over and over again. If that is the case then an education at Rutgers would be just as good as an education at Cornell. Why go to Cornell over Rutgers when it costs twice as much? For certain profession (finance, consulting…) they believe there is a certain selection process at those top expensive schools, and it is important to get “the best.” Whereas to be a teacher, the selection process is done by getting certification. If that’s the case, why spend 200,000 when it could be done with 100,000 or less? </p>

<p>As I know, most people change their profession many times in their life, I would pay for my daughter(s) to go to the best school possible to have more options in life.</p>

<p>^^^
Great post, You hit the nail on the head.</p>

<p>No. In New York there are so many excellent public choices why accumulate all of that debt. SUNY Geneseo has an excellent Education program.</p>

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<p>I believe that after the first job, 2-3 years out of school, it may not matter so much where you went to college, but what you can do for a company/employer. I have relative who went to a Suny (not Bing) and he currently has a fantastifc job. He was hired based upon job performance for a small start up. The president of the current company he works for recognized his talent/hard work at a conference and asked him to work for them. He has remained with that company for over 25 years. The president of the company did not ask where his UG degree came from.</p>

<p>Fatherli…I agree that debt is not wise for most degrees but in Researching4embs case debt was not an issue. The parents wanted their daughter to have the education or environment she was dreaming of…just like all the others who choose a school for the environment, strength of program or other reasons. I think the point that Researching was making was that just because her daughter chose education (with the unfortunate low salary) she also recognized that she wanted a particular type of experience that she felt she would receive at her private school.
Researching4emb… I agree that future teachers should be able to enjoy the same consideration in where they attend, providing there is no debt incured by student or family.</p>

<p>Fatherli…Genesso is a terrific school and a great bargain for in-state kids. Not every state has a public in the same category.</p>

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<p>I totally agree with this statement. I think we really need to examine what we want in a teacher. Yes, you can get teacher certification from any school with a teacher ed program. You can even wait and get credentialed as a grad student. I think we do have to look at the quality of the education one is getting (whether it is from one of the best public or private schools) because what they have learned an the extent to which they have learned it is what is being passed back on to your child. While we may give a lot of lip service, I don’t think that we place a value on education.</p>

<p>It often boggles my mind as to why many students will not get into grad programs in other professions with a sub 3.0 gpa, but we take teachers into grad school, and will confer masters on someone with a 2.75 gpa. I have always wondered, how can a teacher know what is “A” work if they have never received an “A”? </p>

<p>Are there good and bad teachers graduating from both public and private schools entering the profession- absolutely. I think that it is almost a double standard, that we talk about wanting to give out kids the best possible education, but who do you think they are getting that education from? Teachers. It is one think to aspire to have your kid go off to harvard (or name your elite school), but it is a waste of money, should they get an education degree from one of these schools. It is almost as you are saying that people who are educated in some of the best schools in the country are living beneath their privilege, if they go into teaching. What will happen to the overall quality of education if we discourage the best and brightest from entering the profession?</p>

<p>^^^ Bravo statement!</p>

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<p>It’s about both. The privates are instate, as I’ve learned that benefit from previous posts.
My D would not have to take on any debt, but we, the parents, may end up as full-pays or pretty close to it. I just want to look at the big picture and I really appreciate all the comments all of you have made.</p>

<p>Yay for sybbie’s post. Sure, you can get a cheaper degree at a less selective university to become a teacher. If the reasoning is to find the easiest and cheapest way to go into the profession, it can be done. But why should standards be lower for someone obtaining an education to become a teacher? Don’t we want our teachers to get the best educations possible? I mean…they are going to be teaching others!</p>

<p>Anyway, in so many threads on CC over the years, I have come to realize that many pick colleges (or even majors) around income potential. I never thought of it that way. My kids (as was the case with me back in the day) picked their colleges based on what they wanted in a college as well as wanting very challenging well regarded colleges for the sake of the experience they wanted in college itself. They didn’t pick a certain college with the mindset that it could lead to a better income (I don’t really buy into that anyway), and same with picking their majors (which are not high paying careers either). Their educations at college will be worth it for what they gained. That’s what it was about. </p>

<p>They could get an education at a less selective school. They could get an education at a cheaper school. They could be a success no matter which school they went to. But picking a college was about what they were going to experience at the college. And ultimately, that has been a great building block for life itself. </p>

<p>I would not approach this differently if my kid wanted to be a teacher or a doctor. The education itself would be important and worth it no matter the career field intended. As an undergrad, I wanted to be an elementary teacher and my parents never limited the school to state U because I could be certified that way. I went to the best college that fit me. That was Tufts, my first choice. And I became a teacher. And as others have said, people make changes in their careers over a lifetime. My background at Tufts and my grad degree in education at Harvard prepared me for a life in the field of education, even though I am not a teacher any longer, but work in another aspect of the field now.</p>

<p>I’m a prospective secondary ed teacher planning on going to a private school OOS. With scholarships, it’d cost half what the flagship public would, so why not?</p>

<p>If the school you like costs less than the schools you don’t like as much, obviously you should go to the one you like.</p>

<p>AnagramPanda: You are making the right decision. I don’t think it has anything to do with prospective major and private or public, but I do think it has a lot to do with cost. Most of my students end up staying in-state and utilizing Florida’s Bright Futures Scholarship, but there are a number of students who go OOS, both public and private because scholarships have enabled them to do so. If going to school doesn’t mean having to sale your firstborn to pay back a debt then go for it.</p>

<p>I know a lot of teachers (many members of my own family) none of whom majored in education as undergrads, and I know dozens of adults who were education majors and left the field after a few years.</p>

<p>Life is too unpredictable. The top real estate brokers in the town I live in were all former elementary school teachers. Some of the top sales people in different companies I worked for started out as K-12 teachers. The founder of a successful chain of assisted living facilities in my area is a former teacher; I know many lawyers who taught for a few years or in one case over a decade, before going to law school. Meanwhile the current teachers all came at it from other directions.</p>

<p>So I think 17 years old is young to make a lifetime commitment to any professional field. I’d encourage your D to pick a college which provides the right environment, intellectual stimulation, peer group, etc. regardless of what she ends up doing in her grown-up life, provided that you can afford it. If she ends up as a teacher, great. If not, she’s gotten a good education and can pursue many other goals. </p>

<p>Lots of kids pick teaching as their prospective major just because they don’t know about the 100’s of ways people earn a living. They know dentist, doctor, teacher, because that’s what they’ve seen growing up. They may never have met an urban planner, an archivist, an economist, a labor relations lawyer, or a film historian. </p>

<p>So if I had the luxury of deciding among a number of good college choices, and could afford them all (with varying degrees of sacrifice, of course) I wouldn’t let prospective major dictate the cost factor.</p>

<p>Great post, blossom! </p>

<p>Meanwhile, how is it possible that in 2010 this passed without comment? Ugh!</p>

<p>"I know others have different views:

  • Some women go to college to find a future husband and get married. They would want to pick a school that has men that they are interested in getting married to. Private school (like BYU) might make a lot of sense over public school."</p>

<p>I ignored it. Wasn’t worth a comment.</p>

<p>I kind of skimmed through the posts, but one thing that is often emphasized at LACs is teaching–meaning teaching undergraduates. Perhaps at a school where the emphasis is on teaching rather than research, a future teacher would have more good teachers to model. Some state schools are considered LACs and offer certification.</p>

<p>Young people really do need to look in to reciprocity when they go out of state to school but plan to return to their home state to teach. Some teaching credentials are more portible than others. The reciprocity information should be readily available.</p>

<p>I have been following this thread with great interest. My D2 is a sophomore in HS and wants to go into teaching. Most of her elementary and student teachers at grammar school were from a local state school known for teaching. She is currently OOS at boarding school and beginning to look at colleges. The reciprocity issue is very relevant, at least where you start teaching and where you can go from there. I found this list that might help those considering education and certifications.
<a href=“http://www.jflalc.org/upload/336.pdf[/url]”>http://www.jflalc.org/upload/336.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Reciprocity is great, but in practicality some of the uphill battle for new teachers finding a first job is that good student teachers known within the school may have the insider’s edge. No guarantees, by any means, but at least they’ve made an impression on current faculty and are on the radar screen of the principal. </p>

<p>I’ve had to move twice to follow H’s career, since being certified mid-life as a public elementary teacher. Each time I had to go backwards for one year, from a full classroom to substitute teach for a year, just to gain the trust of the new district by being seen as I work. This was true even when I moved within the same state.</p>

<p>She might decide, or think in advance, about teaching in the same state where she gains the degree, as the circle of contacts will be known. Even her supervising professor who oversees the student teaching will have dialogue with the school districts surrounding her college. If she returns to her home state, she may have to work hard to regain momentum to find her first job. </p>

<p>On the other hand, she might have old school connections from growing up in her homestate, that will help her even more. I’ve seen it work both ways.</p>

<p>It’s just to be considered that in tough economic times, and with teacher layoffs, the certification does not automatically lead to a teaching spot. I think of certification as a license to interview and compete (hard) for a teaching job, alongside other teachers who may have been longterm substitutes in that school awaiting the same spot, or student teachers/recent grads who served right there, with professors pulling for them.</p>

<p>Newly minted teachers are favored for hiring because they come in at the bottom salary rung. That goodie (in the eyes of a hiring team) is offset by the question of inexperience/newbieness in the classroom management. The only way they know if you can handle the classroom is to have seen a teacher in action, either as a student teacher or substitute. Sometimes as part of the interview process, schools now ask an interviewee teach a “sample lesson” to unfamiliar students, which has its ups and downs. IT’s a profession where people rely on what they observe much more than
commendations from others they don’t know from other states. I don’t like that, because it can incubate parochialism and leave out some astonishing teachers who studied “elsewhere.” I’m just reporting it.</p>

<p>As well, many hiring decisions today include a component of group-interview by current teaching staff, so knowing people in advance is helpful. Student teachers and familiar substitutes have sometimes made their impression on current faculty, so pass that hurdle more readily than someone returning from an out-of-state education.</p>

<p>I realize this is a lot to absorb, and also agree with just taking her best choice for the moment and working out problems as they arise. Still, I’m offering from experience a long view of the issue of studying teaching out-of-state, with the expectation of returning home to work. </p>

<p>Would you and she be equally happy if she stayed within the state where she attends college, to find her first job? It could be easier at that moment.</p>

<p>Several years ago there was discussion within the profession about improving ease of reciprocity, especially slow paperwork that would cause people to lose a full teaching year. The idea was to allow for some mobility, within the nation, among trained teachers. I don’t know if that got any further along. Historically teachers haven’t been mobile, along with firefighters and police, because of salary step levels that can’t be recovered. But today, with everyone relocating more through their lifetimes, perhaps acceptance of teachers trained out-of-state will improve. I certainly hope so.</p>

<p>From other posters it sounds as though the reciprocity process is smoother than 5 years ago, which is a promising start. </p>

<p>Sorry to write so long; passion topic.</p>