<p>so i'm taking the ap calc bc exam tomorrow. i really don't see myself getting a 5, so i have a question. i know my 5 from the ab exam last year doesn't get me any credit at penn, but will it at least allow me to place out of calc 1? do i have to take some sort of placement test?</p>
<p>If you take a look at the course registrar,</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.upenn.edu/registrar/register/math.html%5DMATHEMATICS%5B/url">http://www.upenn.edu/registrar/register/math.html]MATHEMATICS[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Penn's course "Calculus, Part 1" is what us high schoolers would call AB & BC. You'd need a 5 on the BC exam and probably will still have to take their final to get out of "Calculus, Part 1." </p>
<p>When you say Calc 1 I'm assuming you're referring to Calc AB? My teacher called Calc 1, AB and Calc 2, BC, but Penn calls it something slightly different. Calc, Part 1 for them is really AB & BC. </p>
<p>So if you want to just place out of AB and go into BC it looks like you'd be placing out of "Introduction to Calculus." Based on its description it looks like this course covers AB topics.</p>
<p>To clarify even further: Calc AB maps mostly to Penn's Math 103, which isn't really required for anyone. Calc BC maps to Math 104, which is required for most majors, and is taken by most incoming freshman. If you have a 5 on Calc BC, you place out of Math 104. If you have a 5 on Calc AB, or a 4 on BC, you'll be well suited for Math 104 (and may want to consider taking the placement test), and if you have anything significantly less than that (3's, or a 4 or AB, or poor HS grades in Calc) you may want to take Math 103 as a precursor.
This also really depends on your major, as engineers can't really afford to take 103 (and won't generally be admitted if they're not in BC), but Wharton students may want to take 103 so they're fully ready for 104, and college students should follow their prospective major's guidelines.
I'd say that most freshman fall into the category of having taken AB and gotten a 4 or 5 or gotten a 5 on BC, so they take 104. Some number got 5's on BC and skip 104, and very few didn't take calc, or did poorly on calc and need to take 103.</p>
<p>"If you have a 5 on Calc AB, or a 4 on BC, you'll be well suited for Math 104 (and may want to consider taking the placement test)."</p>
<p>so...i can enter math 104 (the rough equivalent of high school BC calculus) without taking any placement test?</p>
<p>and you say you may want to consider taking the placement test...do you mean taking a placement test to skip 104? or, like i said, is there some test i need to get into this class if i didn't get a 5 on the BC exam?</p>
<p>Someone who has a 5 on the BC exam would skip 104. You don't need a test to get into 104. You may want to take the test to <em>skip</em> 104 if you had a really good HS class.</p>
<p>mattwonder, what constitutes a "really good HS class" which would make the decision easier to skip math104? I feel like I am in a mediocre class and am wondering if I should place out (w/ the dept.-sponsored exam) or take the course in college. How necessary is it to MASTER calculus for, say, finance? Are you ill-equipped to move on w/o an arsenal of integrals and derivatives stocked in your noggin?</p>
<p>1) Most of the time your AP score should dictate where you end up. If you got a 5 on the BC test, you're in good shape. If you didn't (didn't take it, or didn't get a 5) you should usually take Math 104. The dept. placement test is usually much harder than the corresponding AP tests. There is a very small group of people (handful, maybe) who couldn't take the exam, or had some circumstance that impacted their performance, who might be able to place out of the class via dept. test but didn't get the AP score.</p>
<p>As to Wharton and Calculus... you don't really get to be the judge there. You either have AP credit, or pass the placement exam, which is harder because Math 104 is harder than Calc BC. Also, calculus is essential to Wharton, and you don't really take 104 because you need integrals and derivatives per se, you take it because you need a math confidence and competency for Wharton.</p>
<p>The OP seemed to not understand what "Calc 1" is (and that's totally fair - no one has a consistent naming scheme). I was trying to relate AP material with Penn's course numberings.</p>
<p>thanks mattwonder! math 104 it is then, haha.</p>
<p>yes, by calc 1 i meant AB and by calc 2 i meant BC...but like you said, i just didn't know how those two classes translated for penn, but now i do. thanks!</p>
<p>"The dept. placement test is usually much harder than the corresponding AP tests. There is a very small group of people (handful, maybe) who couldn't take the exam, or had some circumstance that impacted their performance, who might be able to place out of the class via dept. test but didn't get the AP score."</p>
<p>I didn't take the AP out of laziness because I was in multivariable calc senior year. I took the Math 104 exam when I got to Penn and I thought it was very easy simply because you can bring one sheet of notes (back and front). Yes, you have to know your stuff, but you get two hours for (I think) 20 questions, so if all you do is write down every single important note on your cheat sheet you should be ok. After passing Math 104 I decided to take the Math 114 exam. I didn't pay much attention in class senior year so I hadn't memorized most of the necessary formulas, but, again, my cheat sheet saved me. So I wouldn't say the exams are that difficult, as long as you know how to prepare for them. This is all assuming that you understood all the material in your course quite well and are able to apply the various formulas, identities, and strategies correctly.</p>
<p>theoneo: this is something I've been wondering for a while. Like you, I'm taking multivar/linear alg right now as a senior before going to wharton next year. I'm just wondering, will it be a disadvantage if we don't know all these formulas and junk? How much of this math do we need to know and be able to use daily for business courses (and in the real business world, for that matter)? I mean, i guess being able to pass courses is something you could learn to do, but how much of the material learned in class do you use in real business courses?</p>
<p>If I was in AB and didn't take the AP test, can I still do 104 instead of 103?</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure you can take the 103 final and try to pass out of it.</p>
<p>Is that a requirement for going to 104? When is the placement final given? Do you know where I can go to see what stuff is covered on it?</p>
<p>I'm fairly certain that 103 isn't actually required for 104. If you think you're capable of 104, you can sign right up for it. I would only drop down into 103 if you think 104 is over your head.</p>
<p>whaat: Most Wharton classes will refresh you on the relevant math as you cover it. Yeah, you'll have learned it in a Math or Stat class, but the wharton class will reteach you the relevant stuff. It's only in upper level, really quant-heavy stuff that I've actually felt pressed to remember math from other courses. (And by that point, you know what you're getting into).</p>
<p>i found old final exams for Math 104 on the website of Penn's math departement...does the placement exam cover about the same things as the final exam? and is it harder, easier or about the same?</p>
<p>the placement exam given is the make-up final from the previous semester.</p>
<p>Rister, can you link me to the old tests?</p>
<p>is 104 really that ****ty? i took BC sophomore and junior year and i think i could use a refresher. it shouldn't be that difficult a second time over right?</p>
<p>Undergraduate</a> homepage</p>
<p>Click on a course on the right and there should be a link to old final exams.</p>
<p>whaat: the formulas aren't important. If a course ever requires Calculus later on, chances are most of the class will have forgotten the formula, so everyone will need a refresher. Also, only Math 104 is a Wharton requirement, so you aren't expected to know anything past that.</p>