AP class grades

Parents Forum
1

<p>I'm curious to know how most school's handle this situation. A hypothetical kid earns a grade of B in an AP class. After taking the AP test the kid earns a score of 5. Does your kid's high school change his grade to an A or is it tough luck? </p>

<p>One more question
Hypothetical kid also can't seem to earn an A in his AP class on tests. The tests are quite difficult and the curve set by other students is high. Hypothetical kid studies hard for tests using his homework, class notes and study guide from his teacher. In the end he gets mostly B's for his classroom tests. There are several kids from the class who earn A's on the tests and help set the curve for the course (they get a grade of A for the course) but somehow only get 4's on the AP test. There are known to be copies of old classroom tests (unchanged) floating around. The hypothetical kid doesn't study an inordiante amount beyond his classroom preparation to earn his AP test score of 5, so one can assume he knew the material pretty well going into the test. Is there cheating going on? Is this fair to hypothetical kid?</p>

2

<p>This is not just a hypothetical question, but an actual question on ALL the email lists for AP teachers. (I am a subscriber to several of those lists as a homeschooling parent.) The basic answer is that hardly any teachers in the real world change grades (up or down) in response to AP scores. A student who has received a 5, of course, should report that to a college. The college will be glad to see the grade of 5 on the actual AP test, and may be inclined in that case to read the course grade from the high school as the grade of an unusually tough grader (or overly demanding busy-work-assigner, or whatever). It can't hurt to self-report a 5, whatever the school's course grade was.</p>

3

<p>My son got a 5 on his AP calculus test and a B in the course. He got an A in APUSH and a 4 on the test. He didn't have any issues with the grades, and wasn't too surprised with the test scores. Neither grade was changed after the fact. The thing is, none of the scores or grades are all that precise, when you get down to it. So there may or may not be cheating or "fairness" involved; it's just not possible to tell from the limited evidence cited.</p>

4

<p>Yeah, my S got A's all year in AP Bio. and then only got a 3 on the exam.</p>

<p>I have never heard of any schools around here changing class grades based on the AP tests. Since test scores don't come out until July, a senior's final transcript would have already been sent out to his college.</p>

5

<p>Getting an A in the course but a 3 on the exam could just be poor quality teaching. In this hypothetical situation some of the students earning A's on the classroom tests and setting the curve then only earn a 4 on the AP test while hypothetical kid who could only earn B's on the extremely tough classroom exams earns a 5 on the actual AP exam.</p>

<p>Hypothetical kid is a junior.</p>

6

<p>At the HS my daughters attended it comes down to the particular teacher. Some teachers will bump the grades based on AP test results and others won't - all in the same HS. As usual with HS, it comes down to the 'luck of the draw' depending on the teacher one gets assigned to and there's little consistency.</p>

<p>Regarding your second hypothetical question - there's always a cheating problem if old tests are repeated. This is just plain stupid on the part of the teacher to conduct a class this way.</p>

<p>If the goal of the class is to teach the material with the goal of doing well on the AP tests (and this is the stated goal of many AP classes), then IMO the outcome of the AP test should be allowed to positively influence the final grade of the class - i.e. a '5' should result in an 'A' or perhaps a '4' should result in a grade bump one letter grade. A number of AP classes do this. This process can help level-set for different teachers' grading practices.</p>

<p>OTOH, if the stated goal of the AP class is to go beyond the AP test and cover significant additional material then perhaps the results of the AP test shouldn't have so much influence on the final grade. However, between the huge number of AP classes my daughters had (the most of anyone in their classes) the stated goal was always the AP test and there really wasn't enough time to cover much else.</p>

7

<p>Well, a 4 could be a high 4 or a low 4. Really, what's the difference between a 750 and a 760 on the SAT? Some very talented kids don't prepare themselves well for the exams, because they're burnt out. I wouldn't judge a kid as a "cheater" for getting a 4 on an AP exam. There are too many variables. I would say that you and your "hypothetical" kid should be proud! </p>

<p>We still haven't received our AP scores from last term...:(</p>

8

<p>^In this hypothetical situation the students who you say may not have prepared well due to burn out scored A's on the even more challenging classroom exams, but could only muster a 4 on the actual AP test. Hypothetical kid could only ever get B's with an occasional low A on the challenging classroom exams, but somehow managed a 5 on the actual AP test despite very little extra time spent studying beyond classroom preparation.</p>

9

<p>A high grade in the course combined with a low grade on the AP test may reflect poor teaching, a curriculum poorly matched to the test, a student who does not care about the test result, or simply a student who does not test well under pressure.</p>

<p>A low grade in the course combined with a high grade on the AP test may reflect a student who was sloppy about completing assignments during the year but who actually did learn the material. It is also possible that it may reflect differences in the type of assessments used in class vs. the actual AP test. </p>

<p>In both instances, I see no reason why a grade adjustment would be necessary or justified.</p>

10

<p>^This is exactly how I fear admissions would view hypothetical kid in this situation. As was stated in the original post, hypothetical kid studied hard for all the exams using the available course materials. Hypothetical kid was not lazy or unprepared. In this hypothetical situation homework is worth 10% of the classroom grade and hypothetical kid has earned all the homework points.</p>

11

<p>My son eeked out a B+ in AP US History and got a 5 on the AP exam. This class is known as the most demanding class in his high school and he worked very hard for that grade. He knew the material, but his teacher was a tough one. I am not aware that any college to which he applied thought he didn't apply himself in class -- he did very well in college admissions. (And no, his school did not raise his grade to an A after getting a 5.)</p>

12

<p>collegemom16, I wasn't really talking about a kid who gets a B in the course and a 5 on the exam or a kid who gets an A in the course and a 4 on the exam. There's enough variability in both classroom grades and AP test scores that I don't think that a college admissions officer would give either of those combinations of grade/score a second thought. I don't think the students give it a second thought, either. (My daughter, who worries about everything, never thought to worry about the fact that she got an A in American government but only a 4 on the AP exam. It's not at all an uncommon situation.)</p>

<p>But I have known kids who got an A in the course and a 1 or 2 on the exam and kids who got a C or D in the course and a 4 or 5 on the exam. In those instances, I think the interpretations I mentioned above make sense.</p>

13

<p>collegemom16,
you are bitter because you assume that the A-students cheated to get As, and your hypothetical kid got Bs because he did not cheat. Your only proof is that he got 5, and the others 4s on the test. </p>

<p>You could be right, but there is nothing you can do about it. Let it go. At some schools only 5 will get you college credit, so he still might end up ahead of them all.</p>

14

<p>At my son's school, at least one teacher had a policy of changing the grade to an A if the student had a 4 or 5 on the AP exam --that was for APUSH and my son did get the benefit of that policy. I assume that policy was there to motivate the kids to do well on the exam -- my son was attending a public high school where the vast majority of college bound kids would be heading off to UC's, at best, and the UC system generally gives credit for a 3, so a little added incentive might have been useful. I don't know whether the other AP teachers had similar policies, as my son earned A's in the other classes so it would not have made a difference to him. </p>

<p>My daughter went to a different high school and they did not have that policy, which left me kind of frustrated as a parent (a B in an AP course because my daughter blew off an assignment -- though she ended up with a 5 on the exam) -- but in hindsight it really wasn't worth stressing out over.</p>

15

<p>In our HS, all exams are "standardized" for multiple teachers/sections and approved by the Department Chairs. Makeup exams for absentees are deliberately more difficult --some to the point of impossible--to discourage students from thinking they can skip and then gain from asking "what was on the exam?" There are no repeat exams or questions allowed from year to year, and thus, no "cheating" in this manner.</p>

<p>OP, I understood your hypothetical; I merely offered that, perhaps, in the face of suspicion but no substantive evidence (unless there is some--exams are known to be floating around seems less than concrete to me), there are always other possibilities. </p>

<p>I concede that many kids are desperate to get a leg up. If they are able to game the system, then the system is flawed. Perhaps, some hypothetical adult should try to fix it.</p>

<p>I once had an AP Lit teacher back in the stone ages who was a mean alcoholic. He couldn't remember anyone's name, and spent the period berating us for our ignorance and incompetence. He tossed our 25 page papers in the trash (said that's where they belonged) and made us do them over. (No computers to save them on either.) Our class Val cried. I suspected that the teacher either spilled a bottle of gin on them or vomited on them, but, obviously, I couldn't prove it. So, I went to the Principal to complain--where I came up against the "T" word (tenure) and a shrug. "Sorry, nothing I can do." I encouraged the class to stage a protest. We refused to take any more exams or hand in any assignments until he pledged to treat us with some respect. I was sent to the Principal's office, and I went with pleasure. The Principal pleaded with me to capitulate, because he didn't want to deal with a public scene. Long story short, we achieved a compromise. I earned a grade other than an "A" for the first time in my school career, which stuck in my craw. However, I managed a 5 on the AP exam, and happily rubbed it in the man's face. </p>

<p>In retrospect, my behavior wasn't very mature. The man needed help--from qualified adults--which he never got. </p>

<p>I still graduated with honors, went to college, and even received my MA in Lit. It's now just another life lesson. I've gotten some good material and a few laughs out of it. It didn't ruin my life. And, as you might imagine, life presented me with many more egregiously "unfair" situations. That's why I say be proud of yourself and what you accomplish, and don't waste your time worrying about what other people do, unless you are willing to do something about it other than complain. It's not a dig, merely my own personal philosophy born of experience.</p>

16

<p>BAfromBC said:
"OP, I understood your hypothetical; I merely offered that, perhaps, in the face of suspicion but no substantive evidence (unless there is some--exams are known to be floating around seems less than concrete to me), there are always other possibilities."</p>

<p>Ok so there are old tests (from the same course) in hypothetical kid's older sister's files in her mostly empty room. Tests that hypothetical kid would not ever touch. Hypothetical kid's older sister after learning of her younger brother's grade and AP test score is not at all surprised because those tests are all over hypothetical kid's school.</p>

17

<p>Experience with my two sons....
B's for at least one semester in AP Calc, AP Bio, AP Physics...5's on all the exams. No change in grades.</p>

<p>Vals they were not.</p>

<p>BTW, A's in other classes that they got 4's, 3's, and (gasp) an anomalous 2 in.</p>

<p>It's what you learn that's important, not the grade.</p>

18

<p>"Ok so there are old tests (from the same course) in hypothetical kid's older sister's files in her mostly empty room. Tests that hypothetical kid would not ever touch."</p>

<p>Well, even more reason for "hypothetical" kid and his mom to be proud.</p>

19

<p>D's AP Chem teacher told students from day one that a 5 on the ap exam would automatically earn them an A in the course. D ended the school year with a B+, but when her 5 arrived from the test, her grade was changed to an A.</p>

20

<p>If you do get an A in an AP class but only a 2 on the test, do you have to send a college your score?</p>