I took AP classes in highschool and didn’t find them at all narrow or generalized or teaching to the test. The college I went to let me out of freshman english but I had to take Bio 101 even though I had taken the AP exam. It was great from the point of view that I knew everything and got an easy A. But I am wondering why AP is so trashed on CC? Maybe my highschool was unique (I doubt it LOL) or maybe I went to highschool so long ago that AP classes hadn’t become canned yet. Possibly if I went to an AP class now I would be horrified by how much teaching to the test was going on.
The schools my kid is applying to still have AP’s so should I be wary of them in terms of not being good learning experiences? They were my 5 favorite classes in highschool so I have been assuming my kid will take them.
I would not say that. What I would say is that many schools, especially the more highly-ranked, have opted not to offer AP classes for pedagogical reasons. Usually the teachers feel they can develop a better curriculum or they don’t want to teach to the test. The reality is that one can’t simply say “Hey, I’m offering an AP class.” There’s a whole audit process they must go through for the CB to certify.
That said, I have yet to come across any BS that does not offer AP that does not have classes that are equal (or beyond) AP is content and/or rigor. Kids at BS still take AP exams; some advanced classes align more closely than others; no matter how hard you try, it’s hard to have a Calc 1 class that does not cover the topics of AP Calc AB, as an example. Almost every school’s jr/sr English offerings will prepare for the AP Lang and/or AP Lit exam.
The other thing to know is that, especially for BS, kids are targeting colleges where AP credit is limited or non-existent.
No. Instead of covering the “dead white guys” syllabus of AP Lit, where else can you have senior electives in Queer Literature or Native American Literature or single-author courses on August Wilson?
Like a broken record, I always chime in on this question because the AP rat race is one of my pet peeves.
I don’t believe the AP curriculum has any place in good boarding schools as these are the schools the APs were designed, in part, to measure against. I sent my kiddo to BS to avoid scripted teach-to-a-test curriculums; he could get that, in spades, at our local schools. Also, at BS, it’s generally the teachers who draw the short straw who end up in those boring classrooms. The best teachers do not want to waste their time and talents on APs. Choate only started offering an AP curriculum in response to parental pressure and has recently eliminated it after (re)educating parents on why it is unnecessary at a school whose rigor the colleges know well and whose regular curriculum is far richer, deeper, and more challenging. I scratch my head trying to understand why on earth anyone would dumb-down their experience at BS with AP classes that they could take at home. BS students can sit for any AP test they want if they want the credit and are applying to colleges that accept them, but the fact that some of the more selective colleges are questioning their value or not giving credit for them speaks volumes to me about their worth. I say if you want your BS kid to take AP classes, you’ve missed the boat on what a BS education is all about.
Often a class will indicate that students can take the AP exam at the end without calling it an AP class. Many kids do this and get good scores which they can use to place out of distribution requirements or intro level classes in college.
Because I feel it’s important to think about affordability, I am in the camp that using AP or IB scores to get a higher placement in college pays off. Not all of us have the money to pay twice for the same class or the patience to sit through it again.
I believe most schools skip labeling classes as AP in order to provide a richer educational experience. A class that requires that certain material be covered may not leave time for a big independent research paper, for example.
But if I were being cynical (which I am from time to time ), I might wonder if in some cases, it allows them to avoid an objective measure of the kids’ mastery of the material. The top students will probably do great regardless, but there is also a cohort that may not, and there are constituencies (often ones paying tuition) who may not be interested in the explanation as to why junior only got a 3…
My kids were glad to be at a school that offered formal AP classes, because they really cared about getting good AP scores and about benefitting from them - as they have; the waivers for certain courses and the actual advanced placement have already been invaluable. They would also say that most of their AP classes were excellent. I get the point about reasons not to have AP classes at high-level schools, but the practical reality is that if teachers don’t cover the AP material, few students will have time or desire to learn whatever else they need for the AP exam and will thus give up the practical benefit they could derive from good AP scores.
You mean actual advanced placement to the next level as opposed to credit? I think most schools allows placement into Calc 2 with an appropriate score on the Calc AB exam (perhaps needing to be validated by an internal exam), even if no credit is given. But placement policies are up to the individual departments and varies by college. So like many questions, the answer is “It depends.”
the 2 biggies for AP subject skipping at UC-Berkeley L&S is a 5 on Calc BC lets you skip out of Calc 1 and Calc 2, and a 5 on the AP Lit lets you skip out of both mandatory English Reading and Comprehension classes. That’s one semester right there, savings of $7K, ($22K for OOS).
My daughter, in a demanding dual-degree program (at an Ivy, @CaliMex) was able to waive at least two required courses, which gives her a little extra flexibility in planning her schedule. I believe she was also awarded at least one credit. My son’s LAC will award up to four credits for AP scores of 4 or 5. He says he could graduate early, but he doesn’t want to, so no savings there.
Which Ivy, @twinsmama ? (My alma mater would let you place out of an introductory level course, but wouldn’t grant credit.) Thacher has AP classes, but may do away with them soon. Kids can still take the tests, though.
Looks like all Ivy League schools offer some advanced placement and/or subject credit for some AP scores, even though some may not offer credits toward the number of credits to graduate:
Indeed, wasn’t AP originally a project between some academically elite private high schools and universities so that advanced students in those high schools could place into higher level courses at the universities instead of repeating what they learned in high school? But perhaps the proliferation of AP into a wide range of non-elite public and private schools means that it is now a commoner thing and therefore to be disdained by the elites who need to claim that they are better than the others.
I don’t think most students use the credits to graduate early but to take more advanced classes.
I have heard the argument that students who get the full year of placement for the IBD who have a long academic road in front of them (MD perhaps ) welcome the extra year and the money saved from it in their pockets for grad school. With that said, I dont think i know anyone who has actually taken that year of placement.
My kid used AP and IB credits for placement, especially outside his major to fulfill requirements, and was happy for that. Every college has too many options for mere 4 years, so anything that opens up a few more is a good thing!
@gardenstategal I know a student at University of Georgia who had so many 4’s and 5’s on AP tests coming into college that she is graduating early. $$$ saved. Also credit for SAT subject tests resulted in credits in for Chem & French. People don’t talk much about SAT subject tests but some scores in subject areas can get a student credits in college.
My engineering kids didn’t use AP to graduate early; they used it to graduate in 4 years! Thanks to AP credit, they were able to take a reduced course load (12-15 hours per semester instead of 16-17). The lighter course load allowed them to keep a high GPA and be more involved in campus activities.
OP - some of our AP teachers were terrific, and some of the courses were really difficult. Your student will benefit from them, in my opinion.
One of the huge advantages of getting credit for AP exams and dual enrollment classes is that at many schools students register based on the number of credits they have. The more credits the earlier the registration slot. This gives the student better choices of classes, professors and times. My freshman son registered a month before some of his friends because he was technically a junior.
Harvard’s info is soon to be outdated. Beginning with next year’s application cycle, no credit will be given for AP (which currently is only given if the student accepts advanced standing), although the scores can still by used to place out of some intro courses and to fulfill the foreign language requirement. https://oue.fas.harvard.edu/advanced-standing
I think the point that needs to be made is that AP courses will not be the most rigorous options available at BS and will certainly not be the most engaging or interesting or taught by the best teachers. Nor are they necessary in order to score 4s and 5s on the exams. Also, the colleges that know these schools surely wonder why any kid took them over the better options available at that BS. No argument that AP scores can be useful at some colleges, so a student can and should sit for any exam that could provide a benefit but, IMO, the courses are a waste of BS time and money. Why not just stay home and take a boatload of APs at LPS if those courses are so attractive? If any BS says that their AP curriculum is their most rigorous, that school would definitely come off my list.
BTW: For anyone concerned that the regular or honors BS curriculum may not translate well to a particular AP exam, for one class where that was a potential issue (can’t remember which one), our son’s teacher held two (optional) one-hour evening sessions to go over that “translation.” Our son said it was informative but unnecessary. He got 5s on four of the AP exams he sat for but was unable to use those scores at most of the colleges he applied to.
Our son’s school did away with AP classes, but still offers the tests to appease parents. The college counseling office has said there is no point in taking the tests, unless he wants to score a 5 to highlight talent in a particular subject; however, they make the point that there are many more and better ways of doing so, that are a much better use of his time (like focusing on his rigorous class schedule, clubs and activities in that area, etc.).
If it’s about college credit, many/most colleges that students coming out of BS are attending are doing so less or not at all. I read that one college said that if you want an education from college X, you get an education from college X, not from a bunch of AP classes (paraphrasing).
And does it really make sense to cram in a bunch of AP credits in hopes of graduating a semester early? To that I’d say take a breath; what’s the rush?
As far as placement into higher classes at the start of college, many/most colleges will look at the courses the student took and/or administer their own placement test(s).
I admit that when I first looked into this, I was very scepticle and weary of my son not taking AP tests, thinking that if everyone else is doing it, not doing so would put him at a disadvantage. The best info we’ve found to date indicates that is just not the case. So we’ll save those AP test dollars for a nice family meal instead.
@Nicki20: Roughly 30% of students at BS receive some amount of financial aid, but if you are interested in what the sticker price is at any particular BS, you just have to check their website. (This thread is not about the cost of BS, though.)
