<p>Having a meeting with D'15 and her GC this afternoon to discuss classes for the next two years. D is interested in some very competitive colleges and enjoys math and science more than most other subjects.</p>
<p>Our HS offers most of the typical AP courses as well as dual enrollment courses with the local CC and the local directional state U (and two great LACs as well but those are on campus, not at the HS and scheduling makes that option difficult).</p>
<p>The courses taught at the HS by CC profs are Intro Psych, Business Law, Human Development and Cultural Diversity. The credits are guaranteed to transfer to any college in our state (though she doesn't want to attend college in our state).</p>
<p>My question is this: From a college admissions standpoint, is it better to have an AP course or a dual enrollment CC course where both options exist?</p>
<p>Look at the websites for the colleges she is interested in attending to find that answer. Every college has their own policy but for the most part, very competitive colleges don’t give credit for either although some will use those classes for placement. AP is typically preferred over CC classes and most will not give you anything for college classes taught at the high school. Just know that going into it. What you need to find out from the GC, however, is which track the school will show as the most rigorous for her school and she should then take those classes.</p>
<p>The “rigorous” question is on my list of thing to discuss with her, thanks.</p>
<p>S’ (instate, private) college did take all his AP and CC courses from this same HS for both credit and placement. He only took APs and CC courses in subjects that interested him, not in ones that didn’t.</p>
<p>D will likely be applying to somewhat more competitive schools out of state, though. While it would be nice to get credit, I’m also wondering how colleges might view her high school work as far as AP vs CC/dual. If the answer is only that they look at the “rigor” check, well then GC can answer this. If there is any more to it though, that’s what I’d like to know.</p>
<p>I was told by both the high school guidance counselor and the director of admissions at our local community college that top-tier schools prefer AP classes over community college classes. I was told that the reasoning behind this is that AP classes are standardized nationally, while the level of “rigor” at the community college level can vary drastically depending on the cc.</p>
<p>State schools are set up to accept those DE credits but not all of them transfer and most OOS schools won’t take them, especially private schools. Just be aware that they may or may not give you credit for those classes but that you should still take them because they do help with ACT/SAT scores, admissions, etc.</p>
<p>D was considering not taking a social science at all next year to make room for 2 science classes (Physics and AP Bio or AP Chem) and a study hall. I think we’ve decided not to do that because it will mean no Honors diploma (requires 4 years of social science). So the current thought is to maybe take the CC courses instead of APUSH and still take the two sciences…but not get a study hall.</p>
<p>She took 9th grade American History last year so APUSH is not required. She’s in AP Euro now and will take AP Gov 12th grade (she likes that teacher a lot).</p>
<p>We were counseled with D1 that AP classes are preferred by colleges over community college classes- more rigor. With d2 ( class of 2015) I may investigate the option of dual enrollment as our county school system is rapidly declining with no glimmer of change in the next year or 2.</p>
<p>Thanks, and good luck Gibson (my D is also 2015). </p>
<p>She can also do classes at the regional campus of the state flagship. She’d have to go on campus for those but might be able to find a late afternoon/evening course.</p>
<p>I’ll report back after the meeting this afternoon. We’re also discussing an independent study she is trying to put together for next semester…HS is resisting her choice of teacher and wants her to bring in a college prof…sigh.</p>
<p>Why add the stress of travel to your daughter’s schedule ? Some most selective colleges & universities may wonder why she didn’t take all, most or more AP classes offered by her high school.</p>
<p>“Travel” is only 10 minutes. But she is and has taken AP everything…just considering not doing AP social studies junior year to make room for a second AP science.</p>
<p>If colleges frown on that choice I’d be surprised.</p>
<p>Mt D’13 has taken both AP and DE classes, more of the later, she will go to College with 51 credits. Our experience has been that the oos college (UA) has chosen is taking everyone of her credit. All of the competitive college D considered the classes rigorous, we never asked about them transferring because if D’13 would have chose to go to a competitive school she was starting fresh. D did not take ap or de to reduce her time in college.</p>
<p>Nobody here can speak to what “most” colleges will do. In my state, for instance, a high school can’t offer both AP and DE for the same course. So, my kids’ high school offers DE Calc I and II. The AP math offering is Stats. Who thinks “most” colleges would prefer to see Calc I and II over stats? See, it’s all too individual.</p>
<p>Go see the guidance counselor. If the high school GC says that she’ll be checking the “most rigorous” curriculum box either way, then have your child take what interests her most.</p>
<p>When I looked at the issue a couple years ago in PA, this is what I found:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The Dual enrollment classes were often a semester long, while the AP classes were 9 months long. It is much easier for a high school student to handle college level work if it is stetched out over 9 months. </p></li>
<li><p>Be particularly concerned about too many dual enrollment classes in a student’s last semester - after senioritis strikes. For that reason, some smart AP teachers front-end load much of the work to earlier in the year.</p></li>
<li><p>Some selective out of state publics and many selective privates refused to give credit for dual enrollment classes taken inside a high school. Almost every college accepted AP credits, although the minimum scores and number of credits per test varied greatly from college to college. Some require a 5 before they grant credit, while less selective colleges gave credit for a 3. Some will not give AP credit for labs. Some had strict maximums on the total amount of AP credit, while others were more flexible. If you expect to have many AP credits, this factor can result in having to attend one or two more semesters at one college vs. another. That can result in tens of thousands of dollars in cost savings, not to mention lost income. </p></li>
<li><p>It is easier to use dual enrollment credits inside your own state, because of existing agreements in place.</p></li>
<li><p>Some of the adjunct teachers brought into a high school to teach dual enrollment classes did not have much teaching experience or any training in teaching. Some did not know how to teach high school students. In comparison, the AP teachers at many public high schools are the best teachers in the school. </p></li>
<li><p>Dual enrollment classes often involved more than one class period per day. As a result, it made it difficult to schedule other desired classes. AP classes provided more flexibility in scheduling other classes.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are planning to attend a non-selective in-state school, you may be better off with dual enrollment, because you are almost guaranteed to receive the credit if you do the work and receive a minimal grade (a C ??). This is because it is typically easier to receive a C in a dual enrollment class than to get a 4 in an AP test. If you are planning to attend a very selective college, you typically are better off with AP credits. The teachers in a dual enrollment class often don’t want to fail too many students because it looks bad on them.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Almost every college we looked at requires 4 years of social studies. Our high school and state require that as well so you have to have 4 years. Most colleges what to see 4 years of pretty much everything. Having extra math doesn’t really give you a leg up as long as you have some calculus in your schedule. In our school kids have the choice to take either AB or BC senior year. BC calc is about 3/4th’s AB calc so I don’t know why they would offer a full year of each in separate years.</p>
<p>You also need to define “competitive” ? Are you looking at Harvard, etc. or just better private schools? What is her GPA and has she taken the SAT or ACT yet?</p>
<p>Only Intro Psych appears to have an equivalent AP course (if offered at your high school), although the college course may be a semester course that could leave room for some other course the other semester. So the decision of AP vs. DE seems to be already made for the other three, unless there are other social studies AP courses that she might take instead of the other three.</p>
<p>Check the colleges being applied to in order to see what their policies on placement and credit are for college courses taken in high school and AP credit are. Note that placement and credit policies may be different (i.e. you might get placement but not credit at some schools, or credit but not placement at other schools – and there may also be differences between credit units versus subject credit).</p>
<p>AP credit is standardized, so colleges typically have a simple AP credit reference guide (although some have specific placement guidelines by department or major). Transferred-in college credit often has to be individually evaluated when there is not a pre-existing articulation agreement (e.g. see <a href=“http://www.transfer.org%5B/url%5D”>http://www.transfer.org</a> for many public universities in the Midwest, or each college’s web site transfer credit page), so the student may not know what credit and/or placement is given until after enrollment.</p>
<p>If she is a math/science/engineering major, then the social studies courses are likely most relevant for breadth requirements.</p>
<p>OHmom,
If your daughter is taking Algebra II now, wouldn’t she take precalc as a junior and then could take Calculus BC as a senior?</p>
<p>I might have misunderstood SteveMA, but Calculus AB is a semester of college calculus done over a year, while calculus BC is a year of college calculus done in a year, so I wouldn’t consider BC calc as 3/4 of AB calc.</p>
<p>Some of the courses you are talking about for DE such as cultural diversity, business law, and human development don’t sound as if they are as rigorous as some AP classes such as european history, etc. I would at least want to investigate these further to find out what the rigor is compared to other possible choices.</p>
<p>I think it does make a difference where she is applying also. To reiterate what SteveMA said, is she interested in ivies and similar level schools, or just any private school?</p>
<p>At our public HS, AP is a 5 pt course, Dual Credit 4.5 and Regulars 4.0. The students wanting to max out their GPA and class rank always went for the AP. Unfortunately sometimes this meant dropping a fabulous extra curricular such as Orchestra so I don’t know that it’s the right course for many students. My Daughter transferred in 29 AP courses to her college that would not accept dual credit. Not all of them will apply to her degree plan but they did transfer in.</p>
<p>One thing to be aware of is that if the student is interested in medical or law school, all college courses count in calculating GPA. This includes college courses taken in high school (but not AP courses or test scores).</p>
<p>So a student who takes college courses in high school and gets all A grades will be pre-loading his/her college GPA for professional school, but one who gets non-A grades will be setting himself/herself back in this respect. In contrast, AP courses and test scores have no effect, good or bad, in this respect.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is classes like business law and human development aren’t going to transfer to probably any school as they don’t really meet core class requirements.</p>