My Son is planning on majoring in Finance at Mendoza and also planning on obtaining a supplemental major in Mathematics. I’ve spent a fair amount of time trying to decipher the system ND uses in awarding AP credits. Just when I think I have it figured out, it gets confusing again. I have a few questions and I’m counting on collegeconfidential to help me out.
He can use the credits he's given from AP Calculus AB and AP Stats to satisfy the Calculus and Stats requirements for Mendoza since these fall under "University Requirements" as opposed to the Mendoza College of Business requirements
He can NOT use the credits he's given from AP Microeconomics to satisfy the Microeconomics portion of his Finance major since these are Mendoza requirements and not "University Requirements".
Both the Finance major and the Math major require Calc1 10550 which he's being given credit for through AP Calc AB. Can this be double counted for both? If not, what is the solution? If he had to take the 10550 course at ND instead of taking the AP credit, could that be double counted? If not, what is the solution?
University/college/ major requirements can be a moving target subject to change. But if your son is an admitted student, it is time to hand him the reins and let him sort it out. Your interest and concern is totally understandable, and he may need some guidance in figuring out whom to contact, but that is part of the learning process. He will have an advisor to help him with course selection; my suggestion (for every freshman) is to trust the advisor but verify everything with the relevant academic departments. My husband is a faculty member and our experience as both parents and faculty is that sometimes the advisors are not well versed in the requirements for some of the quantitative majors. It is also my personal experience that it is best for all concerned if the students take charge of their education rather than relying on their parents to navigate for them. This is especially true when the parent is a faculty member! Your son has access to exactly the same resources you do. Let him figure it out and report back to you.
@emmamarie My son is trying to decide between two schools. Each school has certain items that make it more attractive to him then the other school. The other school in this situation has a more liberal policy regarding the acceptance of AP classes thus making it easier to get the double major that he is seeking. The whole issue of AP credits is definitely not at the top of his list of major factors regarding his decision, but it’s important for our son to make his college choice knowing all the facts. If the college choice is “too close to call” as the May 1st date approaches., it may end up being the deciding factor if he believes he would have to take 18 credit hour semesters at ND to make the double major happen.
Our son is simply crazy busy this semester taking a full load which includes 5 AP classes and running track. As a parent, I’m more then willing to do a little of the “ground work” of gathering information. Believe me, he is fully “in charge” of his decision.
Does anyone have any insights to my original questions?
have you tried reaching out to the university? If you tell them that their AP policy will have a large affect on his decision, they could have someone reach out to you and go over his specific AP situation. I’d try and help but they did a pretty big overhaul last year in terms of AP credit acceptance so I’m not as well versed in it; However, there are definitely people in mendoza who fully understand the subject who could help if you reached out to them.
Also, you probably already know this, but since your son is deciding between two schools it’s worth mentioning again: MCoB doesn’t guarantee choice of major (especially finance). Your son should be fine…I don’t think that they reject many people from the finance major, but it is something that they have done in 3 of the last 4 years.
@silverdrop Where have you found data about what majors they have limited and when? I read on the ND website that they could do this but haven’t seen data about which majors and when. Thanks.
@dancing1 I don’t have any published data. I am going off of what Assistant Dean Dale Nees told everyone at the meeting for all freshmen entering MCoB about two weeks ago. IIRC, he said some years they reject 35 people, other years 10, etc.
Upon reflection, assuming finances are similar I would let your S pick the school he likes best and feels most comfortable at instead of being overly concerned about credit for AP classes. The most important thing is for him to be happy and in an environment he loves. College is a time of personal growth as well as a time of study. In addition, many students change their idea of what to major in while at college. If the APs done’ work out he could either take a couple of summer courses to complete a double major of do a major in finance and a minor in math – once he is settled at a school he will have an adviser who can help map out his best course of action. Analyzing a situation is great, but don’t discount gut feel as part of the decision process (I say this regardless of which school he is leaning towards).
@happy1 I agree with everything that you said. The whole AP credit issue is more of a fringe issue that could come into play as he makes his decision. He’s having a tough time making his decision. We will be on ND campus next weekend and we are hoping that the visit brings some kind of clarity to the situation.
@silverdrop I had seen on the disclaimer on ND’s site concerning the limits to some majors, but I was hoping that the statement wasn’t as applicable anymore now that Mendoza put the enrollment caps in place. Sounds like the limits to the Finance major is still a possibility.
@GraceDad No one will really know until spring of next year (when MCoB sophomores officially declare), unfortunately. To my knowledge, this issue hasn’t really occurred for any major except Finance, but we will see.
My D is a freshman who entered Notre Dame with 11 AP exams successfully completed. She worked through all the details but plans to double major in Political Science and Math with a minor in Constitutional Issues. Not sure if a math major from Arts & Letters is different than a math major in the business school. If it is a burning issue the Registrar’s office should be able to help but your son will need to know what he wants to major in because each department may have a different spin on how AP credits are accepted.
@dancing1 I wish it was as easy as simply looking at the table but from what I’ve read on collegeconfidential as well as on Notre Dame’s website, it gets a little more complicated. The general guidance is that you can use AP credits to fulfill “University Requirements” that are part of the Gen Ed piece, but you can NOT use AP credit to satisfy a required class that is part of a person’s major. For example, my son got a 5 on his AP Microeconomics test which the table reflects that ND will give credit for. However, since my son is planning on majoring in Finance and that is a required class for any major in Mendoza, you can’t use the AP credit to fulfill that requirement. At least that is my understanding, I could definitely be mistaken.
@GraceDad Have you found that information on any university web pages or just college confidential? I have a friend there who placed out of calc 1 as an engineering major based on AP credit. I am just wondering where the information is coming from?
Well I heard back from Mendoza and from the Math Chair that answered my questions I originally posed regarding the AP credit issue.
I was correct that he can use the credits he's given from AP Calculus AB and AP Stats to satisfy the Calculus and Stats requirements for Mendoza.
I was incorrect in my understanding on AP Microeconomics. He actually CAN use the credits he's given from AP Microeconomics to satisfy the Microeconomics portion of his Finance major.
The AP credit for AP Calc AB CAN be counted towards the Finance major AND the Math supplemental major requirements.
Here is probably the best explanation that I could find regarding how AP credits “generally work”. I found this in the Bulletin of Information on page 41 of the link below. I’ve copied and pasted the relevant section below. The example of AP Chemistry in the text below was especially helpful. https://registrar.nd.edu/BOI/BOI1516UG.pdf
The general guideline is that credit by examination is counted as required or elective credit if the course is required or permitted in a particular college program. Credit by examination is not counted as required or elective credit if the number of the course for which credit is awarded is lower than the initial course required in a particular college program. For example, if a student earns a 4 on the Advanced Placement Chemistry test, the three credits awarded for CHEM 10101 would count toward graduation in the College of Arts and Letters, Mendoza College of Business, or School of Architecture program. The credits would not count toward graduation in a College of Engineering program since the initial chemistry course in this college is CHEM 10171. On the other hand, if the number of the course for which credit is awarded is higher than the initial course required in a particular college program, the credit awarded satisfies the requirement. For example, credit awarded for MATH 10550–10560 also satisfies the mathematics requirement for programs requiring MATH 10350–10360.
Just a heads up for current Juniors with interest in Notre Dame. There is likely to be some major changes to how Notre Dame handles the whole AP credit issue.
As part of the Core Curriculum Review there is a current recommendation against allowing AP credit to count for Gen Ed core requirements. It looks like they would likely accept the AP Lang towards the Writing and Rhetoric requirement, but the student would still have to take a second University Seminar if that is the case. This is still in draft form. The earliest that the policy would go into effect would be the fall of next year in conjunction with some changes to the core curriculum as well.