AP Environ vs. Regular Physics???

<p>I know this question is posted every year, probably in multiple places! Here it comes again, customized to my son. He has a 4.4 GPA, 33 ACT, lots of leadership, ECs and awards and will most likely apply to some pretty selective schools. He has to finalize his senior schedule tomorrow and he is really burned out so the timing is pretty crummy! He has opted out of AP Language for regular english- I cannot talk him into it. OK, then he has AP Calc, Ap Gov/Econ, AP Art History, and AP Environmental. He has already taken AP Bio and Honors Chem, and he really has to work hard at math so he does not think he should take physics. I agree with him for AP Physics, but I'm wondering if he should take regular physics just to show that he has all the foundations of science covered (even though he will not major in anything remotely related to math or science). I need to have some really convincing arguments by tonight! Or, maybe you can convince me that I should not encourage him to change! Environmental Science sounds so much more pertinent to our everyday world, but he already took out AP Language which makes him less competitive...he's pretty opinionated so I can't make him change but he is (sometimes) reasonable so I would appreciate any well thought out arguments either way!!! Thanks!</p>

<p>Define “selective school.”</p>

<p>If he’s hoping to get into a Top-20 school with a 33 on his ACT and avoiding regular physics because the math is too hard for him, I feel like that’s not a good sign for his chances at getting in or for his future success at that school.</p>

<p>What colleges is he looking at, specifically?</p>

<p>AP Environmental, while it might boost his weighted GPA, is still more of a science elective than an actual science. Still, he’s already taken AP Bio, and if he doesn’t feel he can handle a hard science next year, let him be. </p>

<p>The important thing will be to help him create a balanced list of schools to apply to next year.</p>

<p>At our school, AP Physics is very hard. Regular physics is not; in fact, AP Environmental is more difficult than regular physics at our school. So, the concern about those two classes isn’t as much about difficulty as much as how it looks to someone who is unaware of the level of difficulty at our school.</p>

<p>MSauce, I know you are itching to give me your opinion as to whether or not my son will get into (and ultimately be successful at) the schools he is applying to, but that’s not my question. Assuming Top-20 school, and an otherwise solid candidate, is not taking physics a reason for rejection?</p>

<p>If he’s otherwise solid, but not exceptional, it may be. In general, the top schools want a year of each science unless there’s something exceptional that the candidate brings. For example, I didn’t take chemistry and am attending an Ivy League institution, but I had several things going for me in its place. Additionally, I’m wondering if that was part of the reason for some of the negative results I received.</p>

<p>2flipper : I picked the following quotes directly from Harvard ( most of the top 20 say similar things)
"Are there secondary school course requirements for admission?</p>

<p>There is no single academic path we expect all students to follow, but the strongest applicants take the most rigorous secondary school curricula available to them. An ideal four-year preparatory program includes four years of English, with extensive practice in writing; four years of math; four years of science: biology, chemistry, physics, and an advanced course in one of these subjects; three years of history, including American and European history; and four years of one foreign language. "</p>

<p>Physics is seen a baseline course for virtually all of the sciences. The base physics courses do not use calculus, mostly trig and algebra. Critical concepts such Energy (Kinetic / Potential) and conservation laws are important basic laws that do get covered. I think your original thought process is basically correct. Not having a basic physics course will suggest a weakness to these shrewd admissions folks. Also keep in mind that if he were to pursue any sort of pre-med /biology degree virtually all colleges will require the intro physics (college ~ AP Physics B) course. So far better for him to get a baseline in it than Environmental Science AP</p>

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<p>Earlier, you had said he doesn’t want to take physics because “he really has to work hard at math.” I was saying that if the difficulty of the math in a regular physics class is what’s holding him back, he’s probably going to have deeper issues even if he gets into the school.</p>

<p>If that’s not what you were saying, my bad. I feel like if a school knew a kid didn’t take Physics, it would be a mark against the student–but I also feel like they wouldn’t really check.</p>

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DS has taken biology, chemistry, and physics, but is taking Psychology next year rather than an AP in “one of these subjects”, because he is really interested in taking psychology. Any school that has a problem with that is not one where I would want him to go anyways.</p>

<p>Ok- well I have something else to add…tonight was the national Honors Society meeting and he asked his advisor what she thought. She advised him to take physics. But then he brought up the fact that if he got an A in physics it wiil actually bring down his GPA and will affect his chances to be valedictorian and get other honors…what do you think???I think this may matter…</p>

<p>There are three reasons for taking physics: (1) because it is a core course, and selective colleges want you to take core courses before considering “electives”, (2) because it provides the best application foundation for calculus, which your son is taking; in fact the origin of calculus is in response to the need to solve problems in physics, and (3) it puts all other science courses in context;it is the foundation science course.</p>

<p>AP Environmental science is at best a “soft” course, and it would be seen that way by most admission committees.</p>

<p>Fogcity- very convincing! I read your response to him last night, plus the wording from Harvard quoted above. He also spoke to his NHS advisor who confirmed everything you guys are saying (me too!); pretty sure he’ll change the schedule today. Just if you guys could confirm with me that the change in his GPA at the end of his 1st sem of senior year which I would project to be 4.48 vs. 4.52 between the unweighted and weighted class is insignificant when it comes to college admissions. It seems pretty minor to me but he is concerned about that. I really thank all of you for your input!!!</p>

<p>2flipper2 : The GPA change is marginal - it will make no difference. Most schools often have their own scheme for re-calculating GPA. In terms of valedictorian - not sure how it works in your school, but in my son’s school, the determination is only made in May of the senior year. So maybe a kid is on valedictorian track - and school’s know that but also realize a B could drop that. I honestly don’t think it will make a difference.</p>