AP Environmental, AP Bio, AP Physics

Pre-College Issues High School Life
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Hey, guys. I am getting my tentative schedule on Tuesday, and I need to be 100% sure of my choice by the end of school. Here’s my tentative schedule:

APUSH
AP Lang
AP Stats
AP Environmental
Honors Precalculus
Honors German IV
Chemistry

I was thinking that maybe I should take either AP Bio or AP Physics, because I am shooting for top schools, and I need to compensate for taking normal chem. I don’t want to take Honors Chem, because all of my friends, who are very smart, are struggling for a B+ right now. I don’t know if the .4 weight is worth a B on my transcript, especially as a junior. AP Lang and AP Stats are pretty much jokes at my school. APUSH and Honors Precalculus are generally on the harder end of the spectrum. I could take AP Physics Blended, which I’ve heard is not too bad in terms of workload. Would this be a better option? It would open more opportunities to take classes like Honors Anatomy in my senior year. I could take AP Environmental as a senior, which could be nice, because we all know what senioritis is. AP Bio is difficult, but I think I could handle it. The issue is that AP Environmental is an elective, and besides that, I haven’t taken any honors science classes (this is my only year I could so far).

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I have consulted @bopper on this, but I wanted some other opinions too. @bernie12 and @VANDEMORY1342 (Emory people).

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@ab2002 : Top schools do not care which freaking APs you take so much as if you do well in them. As long as some of them are typically regarded as rigorous, the field and balance of fields in which they are taken should be irrelevant. You just want to do well in them and show aptitude or competence in something that is intellectually challenging. Also, the best candidates for some schools are far beyond AP in certain academic areas. They have won national and international awards/recognition, or in the case of science done well in Olympiads or major science fairs. With the APs, do whatever the heck you want as long as it indicates you engaged real academic rigor. You should instead focus upon showcasing or developing a deeper academic passion beyond coursework. This will benefit applicants more than just taking a bunch of APs and scoring 4/5. Those folks are a dime a dozen along with those who strategically choose APs to “look good” to adcoms. For example, I bet a student with no AP chemistry who does well on SAT 2 chem or does well in chemistry olympiad is more impressive than someone taking AP chem (because the score will not come out before admission).

Also, you are tripping with the B+ thing. Suck it up, learn the best you can and maybe get a B/B+. That one B/B+ should not put you in jeopardy. Learn to rise to a challenge. Several of the college courses you take SHOULD (and likely will if you are a STEM major that takes your education seriously) be like that, challenging in a way that you learn a lot but don’t just get an A from being obedient and following the rules. A B+ is a great score indicating a high level of competence in a challenging environment, with challenging content, and demanding expectations in terms of the level at which students are expected to learn it. An analogous course in HS will help more than hurt (all these STEM AP interest makes it look like you want to take STEM courses at somewhere like Emory…trust me when I say a challenging chem experience, honors or AP will help substantially especially with the changes in the curriculum). Most students at top schools will be smart and then struggle to get a B+ as the mean in STEM courses at many top schools is a B- and a B+ will usually land students near the top quartile. If you were planning on being pre-health, would that stop you from taking chemistry? Pre-business cores and business school cores curve to about 3.15 (and yes some instructors down curve and lift cut-offs beyond standard grading scale), so more half of these high achievers in HS are getting below a B+. I don’t see that stopping pre-business students from taking those courses.

Best to be ready for that before than to run away from a challenge and then say things like: “I want to select AP STEM courses that will impress the top schools, but only because I absolutely know I can get an A”. That type of scheming should not be happening in HS and the logic seems in congruent (I want to embrace something that looks challenging on paper to avoid something that I have heard is actually challenging…not feeling it and I wonder if adcoms can pick up on these strategies or can see it through the ways essays are written). Take a challenging schedule of YOUR CHOICE based upon YOUR interests, and try your best regardless of what you’ve heard about how easy or hard getting a certain grade is. They aren’t going to single out an “imperfection” in a single supposedly challenging topic area.

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@bernie12 I want to be a political science major, lol. I don’t think AP Environmental Science is challenging at all. They just go outside and look at animals at my school. I think I do a lot outside of the classroom. There aren’t really any major international awards in political science, other than debate competitions. In STEM, there’s MIT Launch, Intel, National Geographic, etc. I’m not quite sure how I could a major award, at this point. I tried signing up for AP Gov and AP Micro, but they are prioritized for seniors, and they were filled. The fact of the matter is, and I think you would agree on this, schools like Emory, if you don’t meet the standards, your chances of getting in are lower. I would rather be safe than sorry, in this instance. I have to work with what I have. Do you have a suggestion? Does anyone?

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@ab2002 : I will say it again. Field does not matter. If you want to take Environmental Science take it. You have APUSH and AP Lang on there as well as languages which are all helpful for someone in the social sciences and generally challenging enough.

The standards are NOT: Take AP STEM classes you don’t want or need to take. That is ridiculous! I will not agree with sort that of stupidity. It has absolutely nothing to do with standards. The only problem would be if you NEVER took physics or biology in any capacity and it was a graduation requirement or would get your STEM units up to Emory’s recommendations which is highly unlikely as you should have taken a general or honors version of those two already.

There are students who plan to major in STEM who get into to top schools without a single STEM AP, and they are not in under-represented groups. They often have lots of APs in other areas.

*As for competitions: I was counting regional and state competitions too.

*This still does not address the honors chemistry issue. Perhaps you should sign up instead of worrying about how not taking certain STEM APs will make you look good because you didn’t. That doesn’t make any sense. That has nothing to do with “standards”.

If you are political science, have something on the EC or co-currics that indicates a SERIOUS interest in social sciences. They aren’t going to care if you took AP government. I don’t think Emory takes AP credit for either anyway. Take things you care about. Is this the only year you have taken honors courses or AP anything or something. I am just slightly confused as to why there is this sudden self-pressure to slap random STEM APs on your transcript. Emory doesn’t care. Also, at least AP Environmental would get you a full credit if you took courses in the environmental science dept. at Emory (you could just start in the field course for Environmental Science). Bio is only getting you a STEM GRE WITHOUT lab (because they will not exempt you from lab if you get a 4/5) and Physics is physics B…I am not sure if that is useful at all…maybe?

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@bernie12 No, I am taking all AP and honors classes this year, except for language and science. I guess I’ll stick with APES.

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You’ve mentioned before that you want to major in political science, so I think that AP Bio and AP Physics are not really necessary to get into a top school. It would probably be best if you just focused on political science related extracurriculars (like Model UN, and that law internship you told me about) and test prep (SAT, ACT, SAT II).

In my opinion, you’re already doing a lot. 4 APs is hard, and you’ve told me how difficult AP History is at your school. You’re also taking two honors classes, which is way more than I’m doing.

Take me for example. Next year, I’ll be taking AP Chinese, AP Lang, AP Computer Science A, AP Physics I and II, regular US History, and Pre-Calc Honors. I had to choose between regular US History and APUSH, but I went with regular. This was because I’m interested in STEM and plan on majoring in STEM. I don’t like learning about history (besides WHAP). I also knew that it would be so much smarter to not kill myself with 5 APs, since I’m going to be the president of a club next year and will be involved in around 5 extracurricular activities. I also have to do test prep for the ACT, SAT Chem, and SAT Math II.

You should not be taking APs just for the sake of getting into a good college. I decided to take those junior classes because I genuinely am interested in those classes (AP Chinese to improve my Chinese, AP Lang to improve my writing, APCSA to learn Java and computer science, AP Physics I and II to determine whether or not I am good at physics so I know if engineering is a good major for me, regular US history because I don’t like APUSH and US history is required, and Pre-Calc Honors because I like math).

I think colleges would care more about your overall grades and political science extracurriculars than if you took AP Env Sci instead of AP Bio/Physics.

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@needtosucceed27 : Thank you for your help here. The exercise of choosing APs way outside of interest to impress colleges seems like a waste of time to me unless you were like me in HS and just liked a range of things and wanted something more challenging than honors version of courses (which would not be for colleges). That isn’t the case with OP as the comment about honors chem was revealing. Never did hearing a course was hard stop me. Luckily all my APs had significant bite, but I had to just make it work.

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@bernie12 Why do you make it personal? You literally don’t know who I am. I am simply asking which course would be the best to take. I didn’t ask for someone to make negative comments on my character for taking a class that I know I wouldn’t be successful in. I am not attacking you, but in my opinion, you make some pretty broad assumptions that come off as rude and very irrational based for one post about HIGH SCHOOL CLASSES. @needtosucceed27 Thank you! Your comment was much less of an attack on my character. I am taking AP courses, because I don’t find the normal courses at my school challenging at all, and I think it would be ridiculous for me to waste my entire high school career sitting and doing nothing. I don’t think it’s unfair, though, to have some strategy to my selection to try and maximize my chances of getting into a good school. I think it would be a lie if someone said that they are just on here, because they don’t care about which college they go to. The entire point of the website is college.

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Yea, me too! I find AP courses to be actually interesting.

Yea, that’s true. This website is just about maximizing chances of getting into a good school tbh. But I’ve heard from a lot of upperclassmen friends and people on this website that you should never do something in high school if you don’t genuinely want to do it. A friend at a nearby high school quit a sport because he didn’t like it, and focused on his other two sports to increase his chances of getting recruited. I was on math team this year and hated it since I don’t like competitive math, so I won’t join again next year. I was really miserable at practices and, looking back now, I wish I had quit earlier so I could spend more time on CS and other projects. Will this hurt my chances of getting into a good school, especially since I’m Asian and middle-class and entering a STEM field? Yes, but I don’t mind because I would hate myself for doing something I dislike just for the sake of college. All the leadership positions I pursued and all the clubs I’m in are because I am passionate about them. I’m president of CS club (just found out a few days ago!) because I genuinely like CS and believe that I could really improve CS outreach in my school and community. I’m in FBLA because I’m interested in business and entrepreneurship. I’m in WYSE because I like competing in English and other topics (not math). I will be joining Robotics Team because I’m interested in robotics. I quit JSA (debating, political science) because I hated political science (no offense haha) and didn’t like how political and bureaucratic the club was.

And this summer, I’ve decided that I won’t be doing basic volunteer work. A lot of people at my school volunteer for the sake of college apps just so that they can write that they did xyz hours of xyz activity to help xyz people. I can’t stand people like that who do things just for college apps (again, no offense haha and this is different because they’re helping people for college and not out of their own heart). I’m not doing volunteering because I don’t find volunteering opportunities around me particularly fulfilling (preparing and packaging food, stacking books on shelves at the library). I’m applying to tutor old people in technology at my local library, which is something that I am genuinely interested in because I think I can really grow and learn from teaching and helping other people. I also get really happy when people figure out how to use technology and use it better their own lives, so I am doing this for personal growth and also because I love to help people in that way. I am also “volunteering” in a different way. Throughout the summer and during next school year I will be planning STEM community outreach activities for elementary kids, middle school kids, and high schoolers. I hope to educate people on the importance of CS and STEM - two things that I’m passionate about. They’re unfortunately a topic that is seen as nerdy and boring and difficult in my community, and I’d like to change that. I’m starting a speaker series at my library and hope to create events for girls to explore CS and things like that. Idk that was really long but the point is, I’m really passionate about this stuff and I really like organizing and planning events and idgaf about volunteer hours. It’s honestly just about the experience and helping others.

That was really long, but the point is, do something because you’re interested in doing it, not for the sake of college apps. This applies to classes and extracurriculars. This doesn’t really apply to test taking, because of course, we’re all trying to get the highest score possible because we want to get into a good college, not because we enjoy test taking.

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@ab2002 : I’m not really making it personal. I am advising, based upon personal experience, to not waste your time worrying about subtleties in course selection. I am trying to beat the concept into your head that it is just not worth it. Use your final year for other things and academic experiences you enjoy that may or may not impress the schools. You didn’t take what I said but so seriously initially (you wanted the scheme validated), so I am just glad someone else somewhat agreed.

@needtosucceed27 :

"Will this hurt my chances of getting into a good school, especially since I’m Asian and middle-class and entering a STEM field? Yes, but I don’t mind because I would hate myself for doing something I dislike just for the sake of college. "

I think you are wrong here, you would actually have run the risk of being stereotyped which hurts worse in admissions for Asians apparently. There is lots of anecdotal evidence as well as research that supports this. I think people should just do ECs they enjoy in a way that they can have a solid impact, while also appearing authentic in their interests, and then let the chips fall. Regardless of what you do, and I know this is a scary concept, but there is a good chance that most “top” schools will not select you. One should just hope that a few or a couple do. If you do things of interest well, some top schools will really appreciate it and take you in as a result, and it is more likely that you may fit at that school. Emory is an interesting one, because if you express interest in a certain area on an application and you are admitted, there are now efforts to reach out to you about opportunities in that dept(s) of interest. They want to take care of you and maximize the talents and interests you do have. Some top schools, when you get there it is like: “oh, yielded that person, makes stats look good, they are on their own now” so this stress based upon trying to get into them all I do not think is worth it. Find schools you are willing to tailor your application to based upon what you actually like to do and how those schools can help (in ways that others cannot).

Either way, try to just “live” and enjoy learning. I imagine there is a lot of pressure but be sure you are doing things for yourself.

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*Also, do not write off political science so quickly. Oddly enough, I find that many who don’t care for the social sciences in HS and how they are taught, do end up liking it in college because the presentation in college is much more focused, research/data driven, and nuanced. Okay, at least at Emory it is. I imagine at some places it is just learning a bunch of “stuff” in contexts you already understood from the media or from HS. It is also approached from a more interdisciplinary perspective. The opposite also happens, I had one friend who liked history in HS because it was taught like a “fact fest” and he liked knowing historical facts in some contexts, but in college he didn’t care for a more research driven focus that makes history education feel more akin to political science.

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@bernie12 How you said it there is a lot more effective. I will stick with AP Environmental. Thanks!

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@needtosucceed27 : BTW, if you are seriously interested in STEM, and do like to tutor and teach, I think you should consider Emory seriously even if admitted to some higher ranking places (trust me, rank, especially relatively close rankings mean little in undergraduate education, especially STEM). It may fit very well. I have talked to others that attended some other near peers (WUSTL, VU, Rice, Cornell, etc) and most seem to use graduate students and post-docs a lot more to mentor and TA in undergraduate STEM courses at the expense of empowering undergrads in that way (which is weird, because I can think of a couple where the top performing undergrads. for a class would be superior TAs to graduate students, especially first and 2nd years in the field). For a private school, Emory has a REALLY strong undergraduate emphasis and heavily empowers them. There is a huge and super serious tutoring and problem solving session system for lots of the key service courses (especially those with tons of pre-meds). So if you like that sort of thing, there will be plenty of opportunities to stay involved in some capacity. I found the system super helpful because it kept knowledge of course material in key STEM courses (my favorite is organic chemistry lol, or any chemistry/biochemistry, biophysical oriented content) which was good for grad. school in my case. Also, at one point I thought about teaching STEM in high schools instead and all the experience helped me win the Woodrow Wilson Teaching Fellowship (which I forewent for a Masters in computational chemistry), so teaching has many benefits. Even if you are pre-health, it will help for your MCAT because you keep material fresh and teaching is the best way to learn IMHO.

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@bernie12. Thank you! Congratulations on that fellowship! I actually have heard of Emory but never knew that it had such a supportive and empowering environment for STEM students. I will definitely look into Emory further. Do you know if they are generous with financial aid? Also, are there a lot of internship opportunities nearby, and do a lot of good companies go there to find students to hire?

I do like to tutor people. I actually applied to be an applied technology (programming, robotics) and basic study skills tutor at my school. Since I’m an introvert, I never think out loud and do all of my thinking in my head, so explaining concepts is harder for me than it is for most people I think. However, I do love love love to help other people out with their problems, and hope that as I continue to gain more experience, my explanations will get better.

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@needtosucceed27: Absolutely, if you want to know about some of the opps Emory offers for undergrads and are having a hard time finding some, let me know (Emory is also a cool place in that it actually offers post-grad scholarships to some, as well as funded study abroad MS programs to high achieving seniors/graduates, specifically the St. Andrews program-Bobby Jones Scholars).

What region or metro area are you from? Because what I say could be in comparison to it. Just know that Atlanta is full of oppurtunities and Emory does a very good job leveraging and is looking to further improve its relationships (because of course major publics in the area like UGA, Tech, GSU, and private consortiums like the AUC, the HBCU hub are likely better) and it is easy for students to take advantage of (keep in mind Emory runs the largest healthcare system in Georgia and effectively runs grady and is literally across from the CDC…can you say internship or ORISE? The city has huge healthcare infrastructure a growing life sciences scene and a very serious start-up and tech scene, especially for a southern city, but really just period. People write Atlanta off, but the metro area is seriously thriving and is great for younger people especially those about to receive a college education or just recently got a degree).

Generous with financial aid: I am old, and benefited from Emory Advantage (in its 2nd year) because I fell into a low income bracket. For now, Emory is as generous as it can be considering that it admits and finances more low income students than most elite privates, especially since I graduated (way back in 2012). This means that financial aid for those in low income brackets is still very strong, but the ones for those kind of in Emory Advantage “grey areas” (like the 50k-100k and in the 100k-200k range) does not compare as well versus some peer institutions anymore (there is a trade-off for boosting accessibility to low income students. Emory also just has less full-pay students than lots of elites so must distribute among those who clearly cannot pay it all. It has one of the lower median family incomes), but is still substantial and much more generous than it could be. However, Emory is not in the business of buying higher income students with high scores like some places, at least not with need-based aid. If you fall in those higher brackets and think you qualify, consider applying for scholars. Even if you don’t check that box, if you sell yourself to Emory really well, it may still offer you smaller, but significant merit funding in the form of a liberal arts scholarship in addition to any need-based grants you qualify for. It tries, and has a scholarship endowment effort so that it can offer more of those merit scholarships.

Also, I got that a long time ago lol, and have already completed the MS and am finally going for my PhD in biochemistry.

Also, I was the same way. Teaching also turned me into a mentor and brought me out of my social shell. You can and will become better. Most folks are not gifted or even trained in teaching. It takes practice, and if you care about the subject matter and that the person being tutored learns, you will become amazing at it.

Here are some of the opps specifically hosted through Office of Undergraduate Education:
http://college.emory.edu/oue/student-support/epass/

Some departments have apparatuses that add to this and also give their own awards and recognition for this sort of thing. Chemistry actually hosts its own training class for credit for those who will TA gen. chem.

http://atlas.college.emory.edu/schedules/index.php?select=CHEM&view=cse&t=5189&sc=CHEM&cn=392R&sn=1
Biology is trying something interesting. Dr. Spell is apparently rolling out a freshman and senior seminar that teaches students about science education:
http://atlas.college.emory.edu/schedules/index.php?select=BIOL&view=cse&ms=biology&t=5189&sc=BIOL&cn=190&sn=2

Emory, like everywhere else, isn’t perfect, but when you look deeper at it, you can really see the effort (perhaps way more than elsewhere), especially in undergrad. STEM education.

Either way, I have now hijacked this thread. If you have some questions than a more specific reply to this, PM may be better, and I’ll do the best I can.

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You have been on CC stressing about your schedule since at least January. My recommendation is to take some time off from this website.