@ mathmom
yes, I agree. Unfortunately, it is too late now for my oldest D. It was a brutal learning curve when she started Chemistry. She got A (few in her class did it), but she doesn’t want to repeat this experience with Physics. I am concentrating on teaching Physics to younger DDs some physics in middle school.
While I generally agree with this statement, I’m not sure it’s needed in this case. The girl will already have had 3 years of lab science (H bio, H Chem, and AP Chem) (BTW UC’s only require 2 years of lab science), so while my biased preference would be physics, there are many science for non-scientist options available at the college level. Astronomy, geology, meteorology are just a few that come to mind. Any of these, even gasp not taking a science, would be preferable to taking chem 1.
@californiaaa - It’s very hard to advise you about which road to take if we don’t know what the destination is.
Seems like your daughter is a HS junior. What colleges is she aiming at? Any guesses as to what her major might be? Can you give a general idea of what her academics, etc. look like?
I know sometimes it must be frustrating when people don’t simply just answer the question that you’ve asked. However, in this case I think that you might be focusing too much on playing the “game” of college admissions.
Please don’t misunderstand - I’m not a purist by any stretch; I think it’s fine to devote some energy and thought to playing the “game”. But I’m worried that: a) you might be doing too much of it b) you’re not doing a good job of it. I think if you gave more information the posters here could help you better.
BTW - I’ve personally found that college admissions officers at very selective colleges are pretty good at seeing through applicants who are just approaching it as “game” - after all, that’s their job, and they get to see thousands of applications. so they’ve seen it all. The problem is that when such an applicant is unsuccessful, they often learn the wrong lesson … they think they need to take an even more cynical approach when instead they should do the opposite.
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No idea. Wants a college with cool dudes (dating pool is important). Something highly selective, probably? She enjoys vanity. Will apply to most Univ. of California campuses (because her friends do the same).
Any guesses as to what her major might be?
No idea. Not medical. Not science. Nothing with nature or bodily fluids. Her passion is shopping and gossiping. Wants a nice job, decent salary, dress well, and work is a cozy office. Wants to get married and have many kids.
Can you give a general idea of what her academics, etc. look like?
She has excellent GPA and ACT scores. She attends STEM magnet HS school. Hispanic. EC/volunteering/clubs. She is good in all subjects, including AP Calculus (A). Artsy. Not athletic. Tuition is not an issue.
People here keep saying that AP test scores have nothing to do with college admissions. I don’t think that’s true. I think the most selective colleges – if that’s who you care about – absolutely do look at AP scores. See the comments attributed to Bill Fitzsimmons of Harvard here http://21k12blog.net/2013/04/15/learning-from-harvard-admissions-dean-bill-fitzsimmons/, to the effect that scores on SAT IIs, APs, and IBs are “much more predictive of academic success” than SAT Is or ACTs. If he says that, it strongly suggests to me that he’s looking at them, and if he’s looking at them he’s taking them into consideration.
Anecdotally, I have seen a few kids with otherwise near-perfect stats and really enthusiastic faculty recommendations come up goose eggs on the most selective colleges – against the expectations of an experienced corps of advisors – and the most likely explanation seemed to be some 4s or a 3 on AP tests taken in 10th and 11th grades.
If she’s good in AP Calculus she should do fine with Physics. And if she’s aiming for a selective school she probably should. Taking the year of college chemistry seems like a waste of time after taking AP Chem.
JHS - I pretty much agree with you, though with a few caveats. I think some colleges are telling a half truth here.
My impression is that if an unhooked applicant is from an upper middle class+ and/or well-educated family and attends a rigorous high school with lots of AP courses (a good chunk of the applicant pool at elite colleges), then elite colleges pay quite a bit of attention to AP scores. They like to see 5 and 4’s on “real” AP exams in the subjects a student is strong in (I’m not saying they need to take a hundred AP classes though).
Here’s the reason - at the risk of offending many people, I’d say getting a 4 or 5 on an AP exam simply isn’t very hard relative to the academic standards of these schools. For example, for STEM subjects I’d say the cutoff for a 5 on exams like Calculus BC, Chemistry, Physics C, Economics, CS A corresponds to about a B- in a typical equivalent engineering track class at most elite colleges. Colleges need to admit better students than this, and if an applicant has the resources available to them then they’re expected to have performed at an appropriate level.
I do think colleges are more understanding if a kid comes from a less advantaged background. Also, I think once a student has done well at the AP level in the core academic subjects then piling on more for the sake of it, or self-studying a bunch of the “not-real” APs like Human Geography, etc,. doesn’t impress anyone.
"Third, she is taking AP Chemistry. Why? Because it the “the most rigorous course in her HS”, and she was told that adcoms like it.
Other possible options: AP Biology (she is not excited about Bio), Physics (it would be more difficult for her to learn physics than to take AP Chem) and AP Environmental Science (doesn’t fit into schedule)."
Nothing like being forced by your mother to take advanced science classes you aren’t particularly interested in. Way to go. BTW, one of my kids got into a top 20 research university and never took any honors or AP science, because that kid simply wasn’t interested.
^ did they take regular physics, chem and bio? Or did they skip one of them?
Thanks for all advices! Really appreciate!
“did they take regular physics, chem and bio? Or did they skip one of them?”
I think only regular chem and regular bio, but to be honest I don’t remember and could be mistaken. I myself only took regular chem and regular bio, never took physics, but that was in the dark ages.
Are AP scores even submitted with college applications? I don’t remember my child having hers sent from College Board to her colleges.
If your kid is applying for a STEM major she should have the trio of science. Not sure about other major.
This level of redundancy is not going to help her in the long run. It would be one thing if it were her passion and she were seeking every opportunity to delve further into the subject, to but it is not. This course selection basically screams that this is what she is comfortable with, she wants to play it safe, she is not willing to take risk or to academically stretch herself or move from her comfort zone.
Please do not think that the counselor recommendation won’t also say this, even if the counselor does not directly come out and state this (what is not stated is as important as what is stated). I agree with others, that she should take physics.
Since some colleges almost certainly do look, if a student is interested in taking an AP course in a subject where he might not do well, it makes sense to do it in 12th grade. AP tests taken in 12th grade cannot affect college admissions. But if the score is good, they might get the student credit or advanced placement.
For most US colleges, score reports are not needed until the students decides what college s/he will be attending. Until then, self-reporting is sufficient. That does not mean, however, that there aren’t students that waste money and send them in with their applications.
@Pizzagirl, I never took physics in high school and it was one of my regrets. I ended up having to take it in college, as it was required by the grad schools I was applying to, but it would have been easier if I’d been exposed to it already. My high school back then wouldn’t let us freshman girls take a science - I wanted to!
So then how can they affect the application? I don’t see how self-reporting can be used in admissions decisions. Anyone can say they got all 5s. When they submit their scores once enrolled at college, I highly doubt the registrar compares notes with admissions.
Somewhere on the common app students can list their AP exam scores. I’ve never heard of anyone repeating an AP exam. Usually by the following year, they have other AP exams to take. Usually they know the material best at the end of the AP class anyhow. I think you are way overthinking this.
Taking the college chem 1 class is a bad idea in my opinion. AP chem is supposed to be the equivalent of a college course. It won’t look cool, it will look both bad and weird to take so much chem but no physics. Just have her take physics. If she’s such a good student she can easily handle a high school physics class. Also, her friends will be there.
As far as the Spanish goes, she could self-study and take the language exam on her own if you would like a formal demonstration of her proficiency. If she gets a 5, she can report it. If not, then leave it be. No one is going to be impressed by a native speaker taking a college Spanish language class. But it would take some time to prepare for and take the AP exam and I doubt it will impress much anyway, so I wouldn’t push it too much if she isn’t that interested.
Isn’t there an AP literature exam? If her school offers AP Spanish literature, that might be worth considering taking, assuming she hasn’t read a lot of Spanish literature already.
I think the rule of thumb you are not understanding is that colleges want to see kids challenging themselves. Taking chem1 after chem AP is not challenging. Taking a Spanish class for a native speaker is not challenging, unless maybe it’s an advanced literature class. Your plan will just show her off as someone who takes the easy way out for the easy A. That isn’t going to impress anyone favorably.
I think you should discuss with her what high school and college program are going to support her interests and get her the kind of job she wants rather than worrying about impressing colleges. The purpose of her education isn’t to impress colleges. It’s to support her life goals.
I did not read everything, but I just wanted to add that some colleges do accept CLEP credits. For someone who is fluent in Spanish, it is a much better option to schedule a CLEP test at the local CC at just a little more cost. My son could not fit in the AP Spanish class his senior year but ended up with 14 credits at his university because he took the CLEP test the summer after his hs graduation. (Of course by that time we knew where he was going, knew he didn’t want to take any more language courses in college, and knew his university would accept the CLEP score if he did well.)