AP Exam Question?

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

I’ve asked this question before, but now I’m hearing mixed things when talking it over with people, so I figured it best to clarify (planning on talking to a counselor as well).

I scored a 3 on my AP English Literature and Composition Exam. I used this score to skip taking English 1A at my CCC, and have since taken English 5 (which satisfies the critical thinking requirement on IGETC), and English 85B (a more rigorous survey of literature for the English major at Cal). I want to transfer to UCB in the Fall of 2016.

It came to my attention that Cal only accepts 4s and 5s for the English AP exams (source: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/berkeley/index.html - check under the College of L&S). So, I signed up to take English 1A this semester, and frankly, it’s extremely dull. I don’t want to take it (but if I need to, I will).

Apparently UCs grant unit credit for any AP score of a 3 or higher (source: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/index.html ). I just figured there was some sort of divide between Berkeley and other UCs in this regard - all other UCs seem to accept the score of 3, while Berkeley does not.

This seems like a definite answer, but I thought about it - because IGETC is certified through my CCC, won’t its completion satisfy all GE requirements when I do transfer to UCB? The course certainly counts at my CCC; I will definitely be able to satisfy IGETC with it. Because of this, won’t it be irrelevant regarding whether or not UCB honors the 3 on my AP exam?

I know that IGETC satisfies all GE requirements - because of this, I figured that possibly I may miss a graduation requirement if I were to skip taking English 1A.

Here are the graduation requirements: http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/requirement/summary.html

The only one that is relevant is the Entry Level Writing Requirement, naturally. It is university wide, and a 3 on my exam satisfies this:

“Students can meet this requirement by scoring: … 3 or above on either Advanced Placement Examination in English; or…”
(Source: http://www.ucop.edu/elwr/index.html )

Therefore, other than unit totals, I see no reason for me having to take English 1A. All other requirements (specifically L&S requirements) will be satisfied by IGETC.

I think it MAY be possible that I won’t get credit for the AP exam at Cal, and thus, I will miss 5.33 units. If I have at least 60 units total without considering the AP units, that should be immaterial as well (regarding acceptance).

What do you think? Am I missing something? Should I take English 1A or not?

2

The problem you are facing is the CCCs are applying AP credit one way and the UCs are using a different method. The UCs determinations win out except in rare cases, such as possibly sequencing that involves validation (only math or language). You need to contact Berkeley and if they equivocate, personally I would take the course to be on the safe side.

The ELWR is a UC student requirement. I believe it would immaterial in terms of a CCC student, but maybe not.

3

I had a similar issue. I scored a 3 on the AP English Lit, this gave me credit for English 101 at my CCC, but UCLA required a 4 to satisfy English 1A (English 101 equivalent). I emailed someone in admissions and they told me that as long as I pass Eng. 102 I don’t have to go back and take English 101 to be eligible to transfer . I’m guessing UCB has a similar policy, but I would try emailing someone in admissions to make sure. The only thing that wasn’t clear was whether or not I’d have to take an English class at UCLA, due to skipping Eng. 101, if admitted.

4

@ericeo - are you sure about that? I’ve never ever heard of the second English course validating the first. English is NOT a validation subject. I would tread very lightly on that @goldencub. Berkeley can be very stringent.

5

@lindyk8 I did forget to mention that I am intended to transfer into their engineering school, so they may be less strict about English requirements.

6

It’s an interesting development. I’m assuming they have decided to take the AP into consideration. Good for you!

7

@lindyk8 I’m going to talk to a counselor today. I’m definitely not looking to take any chances.

8

Let us know @goldencub. I’m curious about it. :slight_smile:

9

@lindyk8 I just talked to a counselor who seemed to be fairly well-informed. He thought that IGETC was some, er, ultimate thing, such that when IGETC is certified, no institution really tries to go back and invalidate it. It is at the discretion of the CCC to clear IGETC. If that is the case, then I should be fine, as the AP units certainly fulfill IGETC requirements. I’m still wary, though.

He was going to talk to a TAP coordinator at Berkeley for more reliable information, and I’ll be in contact with him. I may drop by Berkeley’s transfer center tomorrow to ask them this, too.

10

I know that part is true. If IGETC is certified the UCs accept it. It’s totally at the discretion of the CCC. I just wasn’t sure how the AP would play into it, but I know 100% they honor the certification. (In other words, you got IGETC, but we still want an English.) So I guess he’s saying they will count the AP! Yay!

11

@lindyk8 Yes. It looks to be in my favor, but the AP business is definitely in the grey area realm.

Even on the UC app I got a message asking how I would fulfill the first English requirement. It should work out, but we’ll see.

12

Update -

My counselor:

"Hello,

I have a student who got a 3 on AP Lit and Comp. We accept this for IGETC credit towards English Composition (IGETC Area 1A) however CAL does not accept an ap score of 3 for composition. If this student gets their IGETC certified by Peralta does that override the UCB policy of 4 or higher for AP ENGL scores?

Thank you"

UCB Rep (I don’t know exactly how this person is a representative of UCB - could be transfer center, admissions office, etc. - i don’t really know, but I do know that they are some staff member at UCB who my transfer counselor considered reputable enough to warrant asking them, so this should be accurate information):

"Hi ____,

The good thing about IGETC certification is that students can use their AP English exam scores to meet the English 1A requirement with a 3. Once BCC certifies this, the UC’s will accept that the student met the requirement. So, yes, it will override the UCB policy of requiring at least a 4 for the AP English exam :slight_smile:

  • ____"

This is promising - it is likely that I won’t receive unit credit for my AP test, however. That’s fine, though, I have enough units anyway. My counselor told me to contact UCB myself, too (which I plan to do).

UCB has a transfer center open to anyone for questions about the admissions process and whatnot - they’re open Thursdays and Fridays, and I plan to go Thursday. “The advising sessions consist of… one-on-one, 15-20 minute sessions with an Admissions Officer…”

That should sort things out.

@lindyk8 - would you happen to know of a phone/email contact at UCB that I may talk to for this question, and/or questions like this? I ask you specifically because you seem to be extremely knowledgeable regarding who to contact and things like that. If not, all is well, I can wait until Thursday.

13

Another update (making a new post because the last one was already awfully long):

"Hi ____,

It will depend on whether the student is doing IGETC or the L&S Breadth requirements.

If she is doing IGETC, she will use her AP English with a score of 3 to meet the English R1A requirement and does not need to take English 1A at BCC, so she can use the units from her AP.

If she is doing L&S, she cannot use her AP English with a score of 3 to meet the English R1A requirement and will have to take English 1A at BCC to fulfill the requirement. In this case, her English APs and BCC’s English 1A are seen as duplication and she can only get unit credit for the class.

IGETC is really useful for those students who can use it to complete their GE’s before they transfer :slight_smile:

Regards,
____"

Seems like I may get unit credit? I don’t know, though. Also, I wonder why they assumed that I was a girl :-??

14

@goldencub, I’m not exactly sure who was writing each letter. (I think CCC counselor in first and UCB in second?) Anyway, this has been brought up a lot lately and my understanding is:

(a) Definitely 100% you will get IGETC-certified as the CCC makes the sole determination on that and the UC honors it. This part I know is accurate.

(b) IGETC-certification, indicating fulfillment of the English requirement will fulfill the requirement.

© I believe you will still get unit credit as any exam over 3 gets credit.

This is my understanding, but I might be wrong.

15

I agree with @lindyk8. With my case, 3 on Calc AB, they still gave me non-specific GE credit.

It might be an issue if you are considering adding a minor or another major where it is considered a major prerequisite as it won’t be allowed to be used to meet major prerequisites but since none of your major requirements (12, 25A, 25B) state that 1A is a prerequisite there should be no issues.

Source: http://guide.berkeley.edu/courses/philos/

16

^^^^ good point @SDGoldenBear

17

@lindyk8 The first post was an exchange of emails - first from my counselor, second from the UCB rep. The second post was from the UCB rep.

Anything that starts with “Hi ___” is from the UCB rep, oddly enough.

As long as IGETC is satisfied, then I’m good. I’m not certain if I will get AP credit from my test, considering UCB only accepts 4s and 5s (as stated here: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/berkeley/index.html ) - this could mean that the AP test will grant me unit credit, but will not satisfy the R&C requirement (which would only be a problem if I were following breadth, but because I’m following IGETC, that should be free and clear).

18

@SDGoldenBear excellent. If that is the case, I will likely only have to take 13 units this semester.

19

@goldencub, you will not get subject credit for English or breadth, but I believe the UCs still count the units – they’re just not applied anywhere.

Someone might want to correct me on that.

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/exam-credit/ap-credits/index.html

20

@lindyk8 I see. That sounds correct, especially after hearing @SDGoldenBear 's story regarding AP units. I’ll report back after Thursday.