My daughter is planning on majoring in vocal performance. She is sophomore and is currently taking honors chemistry and honors algebra 2 and is on track for AP Calculus/Chemistry her senior year. She was also offered honors history and English for next year. She has a lead in a musical and is in choir as well as taking voice and piano… She is also very stressed and is finding little to no time to relax if she wants to continue to maintain her 4.0 (unweighted) GPA… I wanted her to take challenging high school classes but not to the extent of not having time to do anything else. Yesterday she had no time to practice piano. I know it is a strange concept in this day and age but I actually wanted her to enjoy her high school years before she went off to college. How do you other voice moms balance this? How important are AP classes and how many are enough? I called a music conservator who told me very important on the application and this was not one affiliated with a large university. I don’t want to prevent her from getting into a good VP program because I let her slack-off on AP classes but neither do I want a child who will be burnt out by the time she gets to college.
A lot of students in HS face this one way or another. If she’s doing too much she’s doing too much. Only you and your D can tell what she needs to cut back on.
She certainly shouldn’t be burning out as a sophomore. That’s for junior year. 
I guess then I should tell her to save some brain cells to fry for next year lol. Thanks. I know you are right. I am just wondering how important AP Calculus and chemistry are to a vp major. But I guess it is to the admissions office.
For music the audition is still primary. Having said that there are many opportunities, especially with LAC and University based programs that pay close attention to scholastic achievement. But she can only do so much. As we have said over and over, vp is a long haul. So it’s important to stay healthy and sane when you are just starting out. @-)
This is a common experience. And she may have to make some choices.
I find the comment on the AP classes from the music conservatory strange however. Typically conservatories and even university and LACs do not require AP classes. I know students accepted with no AP courses in VP programs. As long as their GPA and test schores are acceptable for the school and basic classes are met, acceptance will usually depend on the audition.
I would suggest you spend a little time on-line checking the requirements at a few schools she may be interested in attending. You only need to be in the range for GPA and test scores. Youll see if they require AP. I doubt they will. And dont be fooled to think they will be looking to see if she has AP Chemistry during her audition. They wont care.
From 4 years ago, my D had 3 AP classes - History, Lit and Music Theory. None were required at any of the schools she auditioned at. She auditioned at LACs and Universities. She did not do conservatories but my understanding was that the academic requirements were not harder at consevatories. If she wants to go to an Ivy for VP, well she may need the additional academics but top music schools in universities and LACs will not require them to my knowledge.
Your D is hitting what many music students hit - the limits of time. Educate yourselves on what is truly needed. I wanted my D to have solid academics. But she spent so much time performing she had to make choices. I made sure the academics were solid bc thats all she needed. That allowed for time to continue to perform. She is now in graduate school so I think it worked out.
I just re-read the comment on what the music conservatory said and am interested in others comments. It has me totally baffled…
My S is a junior, and I think of time kind of like a game of Tetris - trying to piece together these little odd-shaped blocks of time that keep falling onto the screen.
S places emphasis on 1) academics with plenty of APs and 2) instrument practice and performing. Social life and HS band are eliminated. I help S to look for musical opportunities (teachers, groups, competitions) and scheduling optimizations. Occasionally, but very rarely, S looks at the projected needed sleep for the day and considers if there is a low-points, high-time-consuming assignment in a class not close to the A/A- boundary that could be skipped.
I can dig that audition time will be the key element, but the strong academics are sort of a 1) back-up capability and 2) an enabler to look at music programs at schools of various (including high) academic standards.
My daughter entered conservatory with 6APs- all 5s on the exams- and one dual credit course and this allowed her to register earlier for courses than her classmates because technically she was “ahead” of them. All of her gen eds were covered as was one of her languages.VP majors take more course work than their instrumental peers and adjudicators will look at the grades to help decide between relatively equal candidates.
That said, @vpmajormom, your daughter does not need to take AP Calc or AP Chem if she doesn’t want to. She could take AP Physics and a college accounting class or other combinations that would give her credit or she could just take them as part of her gen eds in college. Musica is right, she should not be burning out now.
My S is a senior, in the application process right now to what would be considered an ambitious list of music schools (Michigan, Oberlin, Jacobs, Thornton, New School, Juilliard) and we’ve had this conversation with a few admissions officers since his high school doesn’t offer any AP or honors classes labeled as such, even though many of the classes cover the material and students go on to take AP exams. The admissions officers’ first response, across the board, has been “how are his grades?” Their primary interest, from what I’ve gleaned, is that the student is successful in class. Note that this is specifically for the music schools or conservatories, and not the universities’ general admissions.
I’m understanding reading the general CC forums that HS kids today are selecting their classes toward maximizing their college opportunities. It seems contradictory to talk about spending your entire HS career worrying about taking all the “right” AP classes, taking SAT/ACT prep classes, hiring essay writing consultants… and then insist on the “right fit” for college. IMO, the “right fit” should start much earlier.
My S has had an over-loaded rigorous schedule all 4 years of HS. He’s been taking 2 extra classes every semester the last 3 years, and plays in 2-3 performance groups outside of the 3 school bands/ensembles. He was also playing varsity baseball through his junior year. He’s basically never had a completely free weekend his entire HS career. A month into his senior year and he’s simply exhausted. I feel like I’ve failed, as a parent, in teaching him how to say “no”. Early on, in middle school and freshman year, I encouraged him, like any proud parent would I guess, but I failed to really notice the toll as he continued to thrive and take on more commitments. Back then, seemed like the sky was the limit… well, there is a limit, but it’s a lot lower.
That’s my very long way of saying that if your sophomore is stressed with her commitment load, I would take serious notice. If her life is the proverbial juggling act, where it’s a constant struggle to keep all the balls in the air, and dropping one ball is tantamount to failure, I would be proactive and make adjustments now.
I don’t understand the admission comment either. That was not our experience. Even at universities, if it is a conservatory level music program the music students do not need to match the stats of regular students. They all know that it takes a lot of time to get good in music. DD went to Rice with 3 honors/AP classes, a 3.85 GPA, and good but not great scores on the tests. She did have to take the full course load in college, but it was more managable than HS. Most admissions care first about your audition and second if you can manage the work at the university or school. I would recomend getting out of the AP Chem/calc track unless that is her interest and selecting other courses in the sequences. Let her select an AP/honors course or 2 in an area that interests her and can demonstrate the abilitiy to do the advanced work successfully without the stress.
I agree fully with the comment above. You need to help your child “balance” and say “no” and help them (and you) find out that the world actually doesn’t stop spinning. I told my D not to take an AP course in sophomore year. It’s college level work. She’s in high school. There’s a lot to learn socially in high school. Time with family (particularly family meals) was important. And what’s the rush? If your child really wants AP, can balance it and not be too stressed it’s fine. I doubted that for my daughter. It was better that she waited for Jr year. Also she was in honors courses for math and science and as she progressed she stopped taking honors too (on her own with confidence she made the decision to stop by Sr year - most parents wouldn’t brag about that but I was proud of her for making wise decisions to balance her life).
And…the pressure does NOT stop after high school. Remember how fun college was - well at least it was for me!! The pressure continues right into college - where they actually check your attendance in some classes and they are yet again over-scheduled.
Start the balancing act and “holding your own” now. It will not be easier to learn later. Like I said in an earlier post, check what is really needed for college entry (no APs - just solid classes, a good GPA and decent test scores) and be sure she has some fun. My D never missed a dance - and went to prom twice!
I’m with @Singersmom07 and @bridgenail on this one. My daughter is a HS senior and while she is looking at a range of schools (conservatories, U’s, LAC’s), several on her list would be considered very academically rigorous. At each of those “academically tough” schools I specifically asked how a music student gets into their schools, a student that devotes a primary amount of their time to practicing and rehearsals. The answers were all very similar; typically along the lines of “get a 3.5 GPA and a 26 ACT and nail your audition”, with not all the academically tough schools recommending stats even that high. Not a single school, not one, asked my daughter how many AP’s she has taken. (Heck, we even had one school tell us that AP Theory was a waste of time)
@vpmajormom I applaud you for, as you put it, actually wanting her to enjoy her HS years. Bravo! But when you mention her not having time to practice, that should set off a couple of alarm bells. My daughter has made practicing the number one priority over everything (without giving up a social life), and I completely support her decision, especially not giving up a social life. She even took an early dismissal this year (no class the last period of the day) to free up more time for oboe and piano.
Think of it this way: if your child wanted to major in engineering, would it make sense for them to not work hard on their AP Physics class so that they have more time for piano? Now reverse that question.
(Oh, and @bridgenail, hooray for family meals!! Good on you!!)
I am also confused by the comment made from the music conservatory. I am not sure who you spoke with. The admissions department is not always staffed by people who can answer all the questions correctly. It is not the advice I have been given as a parent of 2 performing arts kids or as a music teacher who coaches kids for BFA’s in MT. Academics are important since every child will take a few gen eds and they need to make sure they can handle the balance in their schedule but “very” important is an interesting response. As you will hear from just about everyone, you don’t get in to a conservatory without a stellar audition. You don’t get in to a top tier University’s music program with good grades. Somewhere in between lies all the rest. Balance is the key word. Many kids finish their freshman year with a 4.0 unweighted only to find it won’t necessarily be their reality 3 years later. As a sophomore she is just beginning to learn the balance all of us talk about. Junior year is a really tough one and the sophomore year needs to help them prepare for that. I know PLENTY of kids at amazing conservatories, colleges, universities, etc. without a boatload of AP’s. Don’t let her burn out now or next year things will become unbearable.
I tend to agree with others that I am puzzled by the AP answer from a conservatory admissions department, I wonder if that was some student working there who said that. leaving Mezzo Mama’s comments aside for the moment (and they are good ones, especially since she knows VP, my background mostly is instrumental music). First of all, at the top stand alone conservatories, I can almost tell you with 100% certainty that whether you take AP exams or not will not matter, they basically won’t care. It could be in the case of a tie, they might look at a kids academic standing and maybe, just maybe, they would use having AP’s as a tiebreaker, but based on what I know directly and have been told, I would not use that as a justification for taking AP exams.Conservatories will look at grades, but mostly IME that is to make sure the kid didn’t totally throw off school work, in large part because despite what the less informed think, classes you take in conservatory, like theory and ear training (and for voice majors, language) take academic rigor to get through, they aren’t easy, so they want to make sure they don’t have a music prodigy who if you ask him or her about the concept of resolving dissonance in music and how it differed during different periods of music history, will look at you like you spoke ancient Sanskrit:).
For Music schools in a university, it will be a little bit different, but having a number of my son’s friends going to the ‘dual degree’ paradises like Michigan, Northwestern, Vanderbilt et al, there is a lot of truth that they treat music performance majors differently than academic admits only. That doesn’t mean a kid can slough off on classes, or take basket weaving, but they likely won’t be looking for X AP’s and such (personally, I wish there was a federal law banning the use of AP’s for anything but granting credit, it is one of the most specious measures of potential success in college ever invented, outside maybe the SAT). If you D maintains her grades and is taking reasonably challenging courses, the lack of SAT’s likely won’t hurt her there, either. Having strong grades might get her academic merit aid at some schools, which is never a bad thing, but I would also not try to maintain a crazy schedule based on the formula of ‘you need X ap’s to get in’.
There is also a very good reason to perhaps cut down on the academic load. If she is planning on going to a conservatory or a school of music in a university, the audition is the ultimate deal breaker, and you can have a 4.0 GPA with 8 AP’s and 2300 SAT’s, and you won’t get into the school of music. If a compromise is going to be made between academics and music prep, lean towards the music prep for that reason. There is a lot more leeway with the academics then there will be with the audition, especially given that you not only are auditioning (with some exceptions) to get into the program but also to get a teacher to be willing to teach you, you might sing like Renata Scotto but if none of the teachers want to teach you, you don’t get in, so anything that improves your ability can help catch a teacher’s eye.
Mezzo’s Mama does have a valid point, about standing, but that comes down to a matter of the school and their requirements and also how they treat AP’s. Some schools might let you get out of a gen ed requirement (more in a music school in a LAC/University than Conservatory IME) if let’s say you get a 5 on AP calc and that fulfills a math requirement, or as something very intrinsic to a voice student, they may let a student out of a language requirement if they get a good school on an AP language test (depending on what level they require, at the very least, might mean taking only 1 year if hypothetically they required 2 years of that language). Never a bad thing to get requirements out of the way, though that is also something where you need to know how particular schools handle it, the conservatory my son goes to as far as I know does not give advanced standing with AP’s, I don’t think they waive requirements for AP classes, every school is different. Again, I wouldn’t go crazy with AP’s if her time is crunched, anything that cuts into practice time (if her piano playing is going to be involved especially, but of course voice practice as well) should be pared back, and if it means she takes less or no AP’s, to me that is the way I would go.
I am sending you a PM. It is not necessary to live with this kind of stress and time management challenge. Your daughter can balance her life and choose her priorities, and her dedication to music will be honored at conservatories- and at even the most selective universities. If she is interested in these subjects, that is one thing, but she does not need to live high school life for admissions.
A sophomore still has plenty of time to change and develop. She may not want to put all her eggs in one basket, so to speak, so preserving options can be good, but not at the expense of well-being. Here is a good essay for her to read as the next few years go by, to clarify what she wants to do: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html
This is something we have struggled with, also. My son is now a junior. There came a time over the summer when he was working on AP summer assignments and other summer homework when he kept saying that junior year was going to be miserable and he was going to hate it. Over the summer he also was accepted into an elite local extracurricular wind ensemble and decided to do some additional extracurricular music stuff during junior year. We realized something had to give. He had been signed up for two AP classes, we agreed he should drop AP US History, which is known as the hardest class at his school, and take honors US history instead. He also dropped down to regular trig/precalc instead of honors, because although he is good in math he found honors just moved too fast for him and his math grades reflected that.
These changes were hard for him to accept, initially, because he goes to a HS full of high achieving students where most of his friends are taking 3-5 APs as juniors. We had to point out that his goals are different from his friends’ and he has to prioritize the things that will help him with HIS goals. Once the decision was made, though, you could tell it was a huge relief to him, and so far he is enjoying junior year and seems relaxed, focused, and happy, even though it is the middle of the crazy marching band season. He is enjoying math again since switching to regular precalc, too. We will see how the rest of the year goes.
Even if the child is going to a conservatory connected to a LAC or university, AP courses and 4’s or 5’s on the related tests are useful and these translate into credits which mean fewer LA courses need to be taken. And if you think the kids are busy in high school, just wait until conservatory especially for the composition majors out there. AP’s are worth it in this situation, not as much with a stand alone conservatory.
This is true at some schools but not all. If you have a crystal ball and know where you will end up, you can decide based on that college’s policies. 
Thanks everyone! Just knowing how others have handled this is really helpful. In reading many of the comments, it seems perhaps I misunderstood the person I was speaking with and yes, she sounded like a student. We were discussing admission to the university and also the conservatory so perhaps she was just referring to the university. I had never heard that the standard for the gpa is not as high for students being admitted to an arts program but it makes sense that it is difficult to practice ones craft and have a heavy academic load and do well at both or completely burn out at some point. I am an older mom and the pressure on kids today is so much more than when I was in school. I really feel for them. We do have our list narrowed down a bit and she wants to stay in California. In asking as we toured, the average GPA for students entering Chapman was 3.7 as I recall. We also toured Biola so I might have them confused. Cal State Long Beach has high academic standards for admission as does USC and UCLA. IO guess I need to ask if they make exceptions for music majors. And as has been pointed out it doesn’t matter how many APs she has if she doesn’t nail her audition. Her voice/piano teacher is trying to get her through level 7 of theory but if she doesn’t have time to practice the piano and study, that isn’t going to happen.
Yes, they all do make exceptions for music students. Call each school of music and they can be more specific. I know that a few years ago UCLA would admit a music school student with the minimum gpa of 3.5. The audition is still primary. And ignore the “average GPA”. It’s irrelevant.to music admissions . That being said, many schools may offer academic merit scholarships on top of music scholarships if her grades remain stellar. I know that that’s certainly the case at USC.
She shouldn’t stress about theory. At most schools it is a good idea to start with the first level courses anyway: each school has its own theory curriculum. There are often theory placement tests during audition week but they are actually, really placement tests.
I just read again that your daughter is a sophomore. This stress is not necessary for her goals.