My experience with APs for my S24 and S26 has been very uneven at our CA public HS of 3500 kids. S24 is a good student and took all honors classes when available, and 3 APs through junior year. He had straight As in junior year but it was a mental and physical struggle in the spring semester.
He felt that he should not overload with APs his senior year, but at his school the only remaining options for Math and Science were AP Calculus AB and AP Chem He also really wanted to take AP Psychology. So he requested the 3 AP classes, Honors English Lit and regular Govt.
Both his college counselor and guidance counselor pressured him into changing his schedule to include AP English Lit as well as AP Govt. They scared him that he needed to have 5 APs to show rigor despite him telling them that he was feeling burnt out and being aware that he has a 504 for ADHD.
All they saw was a 4.0 student with a high class rank and assumed that it was UCs or bust. He eventually convinced them to let him switch to honors English, but he was made to feel awful about it.
I am hearing from many parents that their kids are being pressured by the counselors at our school to take as many APs as possible if the kid is a decent student. There is absolutely no regard for mental health or life goals.
The AP pressure is very dependent on individual schools, counselors, peer culture, parents and the mixed signals from colleges.
Having just read a sampling of the posts I risk being redundant. However, an associated topic is the large number of AP classes many schools offered. I sense (no data to prove) a watering down of the AP class. Donât know that all the teachers are qualified to teach nor the students able to succeed in so many of these classes. When I was in school many yrs ago, it was only the very top students who took AP classes. Both my brothers did. I didnât nor should I have. Our HS AP classes were filled with the kids who went on to top schools. Today it appears to be a status symbol.
Since I was the first response on this thread, and I was responding to Trevorâs tweet, and since Trevor was not advocating âtaking zero, or two,â Iâm unsure how you made the illogical leap that I have ever said anything remotely advocating âtaking zero, or two.â
Our HS has a long list of APs and the classes were not watered down. Many get 5s, and most who are in the class were recommended by the previous teacher. There was an occasional student whose parent got them in by signing a waiver, but most truly belonged. The students are only permitted a total of 6, beginning junior year. This policy also impacts the honors level classes, which many feel are taught at a higher level.
A lot of our teachers attended Ivy League and similar schools, and a few have PhDs. This does not mean that graduates from âregularâ colleges cannot teach AP level classes (they most certainly can), but it does suggest that our teachers are qualified to teach the class in their subject area.
As I reread what I just wrote, I realize how privileged my kids were for living in this school district. There is so much inequity out there that it is heartbreaking.
Not sure because our school is actually considered a high performing school (I think itâs top 200 in the state or something - with the state being California). People literally move to our city because of the school districtâs reputation. Our teachers are quite strong (with a few exceptions) and generally also teach above and beyond rather than teaching to the test.
Yet the prevailing attitude is quite different from the one at your school. We have a number of policies limiting the number of AP classes that can be taken: in addition to only being able to take one class per core area per year, APs are limited to junior and senior and a max of 3 per year. In other words, even the tippy top students at our school would be encouraged to limit themselves to two AP science classes (one junior year and one senior year) and often only one or maybe two AP math classes (definitely an AP math class senior, and possibly one junior year although with integrated math the typical track is Math 1, Math 2, Math 3, and then either AP Calc or AP stats senior year).
But again, these limitations are not indicative of an underperforming (or even âaverageâ) school. As I said, our school is considered one of the top in the area.
I believe that is what the school district believes. I am uncertain as to whether or not I believe it - which is why it is interesting to read these threads and hear about experiences in other districts.
Our district also limits APs to 6, and our students are very successful in college admissions.
Does the district believe that they are acting in the best interest of the students? I guess, but who knows. It did not impact the success of my own child or her friends.
It may (or may not) be interesting to observe the paths taken by the very most competitive boarding schools which have begun and seem to be sticking with reducing APs to appreciably close to zero. Which is not to say that, for now, kids donât take APs anyway. And the reasons cited by the school are varied (eg we want to preserve flexibility for our faculty, we donât want to teach to the tea bc itâs limiting). But itâs sorta kinda interesting. Maybe.
And this is why I was asking about whether student interest should play a role in course selection, rather than purely strategizing for rigor. If you can only take two AP science classes and student is interested in APES, do they go with what they are genuinely interested in, or skip it in order to take, say AP Chem because that looks better to AOs? And if they can only take one AP math and they feel stats is more useful for them based on what they want to study, should they take stats or take calc because thatâs considered more rigorous? Genuine interest vs perceived (or even real) rigor when you sometimes canât have it both ways. Thatâs the pickle.
My D took 3 AP sciences, AP calculus, AP Spanish, and an AP English. She did not take any of the AP social studies classes because her interests were elsewhere.
One drawback to her schoolâs approach is that there were some AP level kids in honors level classes, which could be viewed as a positive or a negative. One day her honors SS class was being observed by the principal (it was a teacher observation) and the principal actually kept my daughter after class to tell her that she belonged in AP, not honors, based on the level of discussion that she was bringing to the class. I say this not to boast (she graduated HS well over 5 years ago) but to bring to light a possible drawback to the schoolâs policy. This could also be viewed as a positive, depending. Many parents feel that our schoolâs honors level classes are actually taught at a higher level (some are not happy, mostly those who waived their kids into honors when they were recommended for regular).
Regardless, it seems to be working for those who listened to teacher recommendations.
Seems like that policy only makes sense if it excludes calculus and foreign language for students who reach that level earlier in normal progression for them.
I donât know that the âlimit APâ advice is helpful for large average schools. It may ease pressure on kids in high-quality high schools, but I donât think the average kid at the average large high school is in that kind of pressure-cooker anyway. They arenât competing with all their classmates for Top 20 schools.
At DDâs very average school with minimal counseling, AP courses are virtually the only way a student can stand out or show rigor. There are no other ârigorousâ classes. If a student wanted to take calculus or a fourth year of a language, AP classes were the only option.
And, as it turned out, those AP classes were not the key to getting into school for her, but enabled her to start with nearly two full years of credits. That would not have happened had she taken only six AP courses. And sheâs been sailing through 300 and 400 level classes as a freshman because of that foundation. It wasnât 100% stress-free in high school (is any rigorous schedule?), but it was her choice and manageable for her (NOT overwhelming) and has made the transition to college easier.
I donât see a lot of downside to a student in her position taking a lot of AP classes.
I think, backed by all the AO tidbits I mentioned (plus data tracking of the two schools I have access to) that when APs are limited significantly, it is even more important to take the all hardest ones, if aiming for the super-elites. Interest plays a lesser role in the schools that limit APs, because one has to focus on the ones seen best . So most of your 6 have to be the hard ones. When AP is unllimited, you still have to take the super hard ones(in our school taking 3 of the 4 (or 4/4) hardest APs seems to be the âkeyâ: almost 90% of those who do it have success at at least one elite, whereas those who take 1/4 have less than 10% success, even if rank is at the top.) Thus, the other 4-6 APs(top kids take 8-10+) can be distributed according to interest, and that distribution seems to have zero correlation with elite admissions. In a school that limits it to 6, what if the same 4 matter most? Then only 2 APs can be tailored to interest. Obviously, I am speculating as I have no insight on how elite admissions tracks in AP-capped high schools.
My son took 12 AP courses at his public high school and earned 5s on the 10 exams he took. (He skipped AP lit test because he already had a 5 on AP lang and also skipped AP Chinese since he did not plan to continue it in college.)
He needed the increased challenge of the AP courses and had almost completely lost interest in science from the slower paced unchallenging honor courses before I had him skipped past honors physics straight to AP Physics C. He also did enjoy learning about other subjects that he knew he would not necessarily pursue in college (Economics, Psychology, Chemistry) and was awarded his high schoolâs Senior Night award for not only Physics, but also for History/Social Science.
Some kids need the extra challenge and faster pace of AP classes and do like to be exposed to many different subject areas in high school and are not just padding a resume for colleges. He used his AP exam scores to skip out of entry level classes which has allowed him to triple major and to be starting graduate courses as a junior.