<p>Our public HS is as of this year implementing a policy to require all students taking AP classes to take the AP exam and to pay a portion of the cost for the test. Are there other public HS's out there with this requirement? Can a public school require students to pay a fee for the test which is now a class requirement? Can a policy such as this one strengthen a HS's AP program? Do you think this policy is a good or a bad thing? Is it worth the ivestment that the district is putting into it? I think it is definitely worthwhile for the district to contribute to the cost of exams for students who want to take the tests but I am not sure that it is worth the investment for kids who don't want to take it. By the way, historically only a small percentage of students in our school's AP classes have been taking the tests and of this percentage an even smaller percentage have actually been passing.</p>
<p>They do this to try to boost their ratings in the (ridiculous) "Challenge Index."</p>
<p>My son's public HS has this requirement, but pays for the test. They will even pay for the test if a kid self-studies for it, which surprised me, but see my first sentence.</p>
<p>I don't think it strengthens an AP program. In fact, I think the goal of increasing the number of exams taken can actually weaken the program as the school attempts to increase the number of AP exams taken by increasing the number of AP courses taught -- and allowing unqualified teachers to teach them, because they can't get qualified teachers to do so, as has happened at my son's school in some subjects.</p>
<p>I think any district which requires the test should be required to post AP scores for each high school on the Internet, to publish them. At least one district in my state does this, and I would like to see my district do the same. If I as a taxpayer am paying for the exam, in part or in full, for students in my districts, I should be able to see the results of that expenditure. </p>
<p>If the vast majority of kids are getting 1s and 2s on the AP exams in a particular subject/at a particular school, I would question the wisdom of the expenditure.</p>
<p>Owlice is right. And yes, there are other schools that have that requirement. The private high schools we have used did not, though nearly all of the kids who took AP courses did take the exams.</p>
<p>Sometimes the AP course is the best one available despite the school's miserable record in test results. In which case it may be the best option for a good student to take it as it would be the most rigorous course load available to him.</p>
<p>Our high school as always required it. It dates back to before the Newsweek listing. They feel it weeds out the non-serious kids. They will pay for your tests if you can document need. (i.e. be eligible for reduced or free lunch.) They don't give us the exact statistics, but they have a pretty sizable list of AP award winners, so many kids are doing well. So far, between the two kids in my house I have no complaints. The scores have all been 5's.</p>
<p>Mathmom: I think that weeding out kids who aren't serious is part of the plan. Our district does wave the fees for kids on free lunch but there is a lot of middle ground between these kids and kids who can easily afford the testing especially when kids are taking multiple exams. Kids not taking the class because they are not serious is one thing kids not taking the class because they feel they can't afford to is another. From your reply it sounds like from what you have seen this isn't an issue in your school. I'm also wondering how a school gets from required testing to great results on these tests. As I said our AP program has been weak in the area of testing and outcomes.</p>
<p>My kids went to a small public high school (600 student body), no interest in the challenge index at all, the vast majority go to state colleges - a few of the top have gone to top school. One Ivy every 3-4 years.
I had one kid or another in the school for 11 years. I saw the school move from very few AP's (3) to a nice selection from which kids could choose. The increase in AP classs brought the school district willing to pay the full cost BUT also required students to take the exam. The goal was for every college bound student to take one AP. Last spring every single student showed up to take their AP test(s).</p>
<p>My answers are based on my own observations through the years:
Are there other public HS's out there with this requirement? YES.
Can a public school require students to pay a fee for the test which is now a class requirement? Yes, although I think they should pick up the tab or have a program to pay for low income kids. Most kids who have a job could cough up the $40+ for half the fee of one test. They probably have fees for kids who take wood shop.
Can a policy such as this one strengthen a HS's AP program? Yes.
Do you think this policy is a good or a bad thing? ** Good.
**Is it worth the ivestment that the district is putting into it? Yes.</p>
<p>A public school can require fees for classes (taking the AP test is a fee). However, you do have the right to opt out of certain things (such as field trips, and things that interfere with other classes). There also must be a provision for the school to pay the fee for those who cannot afford the fee (fee waiver for kids on school lunch program for example).</p>
<p>Why are you worried about a $50 testing fee? If you can't afford it, ask for a fee waiver.</p>
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By the way, historically only a small percentage of students in our school's AP classes have been taking the tests and of this percentage an even smaller percentage have actually been passing.
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<p>I think the School has a problem that forcing kids to take the test won't solve. They shouldn't be offering classes they are not able to properly teach it. BTW: I include grading kids appropriate as part of being able to teach. If a kid can't do the work, the grade should reflect it. Whether that is a teacher problem or a student problem can be debated on an individual basis. The fact that only a small percentage are passing the AP is a symptom of:</p>
<p>1) Teachers not able to teach the class
2) Unprepared Students are allowed to take the class</p>
<p>Our high school has had the requirement for years. Mathmom, I think the reason is like yours -- to weed out non-serious kids who want the AP class on their transcript but don't want to study for the exam. Our school cares little for the Newsweek rating but cares a great deal about its pass rate and works hard to get the kids prepared. They want to know that if they are putting the effort in -- including teachers running weekend camps, etc. and after-school study sessions, that the kids are going to match that effort. They can't force the kids to take the exam but they do ask the kids to agree to do it. And, unless a kid has a financial challenges, our students pay for the entire exam fee.</p>
<p>As far as weeding out - They also required teachers to assign summer homework. The summer homework did a good job of weeding out those who were not serious.
Withing the first month of school kids also have the option of transferring out of the course if they aren't serious about it.
The Challenge index doesn't care about test scores - it only cares how many students take the test.<br>
The AP program is not all about results. I would rather see a kid heading to a state school take the class and get a 2 or 3 than not take an AP class at all.
AP Classes can be an excellent taste of the rigor that will be expected in college. </p>
<p>It's a win/win situation. There is no way any student can lose - even if they score a 1.</p>
<p>The fee I paid this year was $86. For kids who take a number of courses, the fee is a significant expense.</p>
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I think the School has a problem that forcing kids to take the test won't solve. They shouldn't be offering classes they are not able to properly teach it.
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<p>not sure what you are getting at here- are your teachers unqualified to teach at the college level or just bad teachers?</p>
<p>School districts that are serious about AP courses can provide a lot of support. My kids' AP Teachers all had Master's degrees - most public school teachers here in PA do. Some teach at local colleges part time. They are qualified.
Before they teach and AP they are required to attend an AP Summer professional development program. The teachers have had very good success after attending these.</p>
<p>OP can ignore this if he/she wants info only for <em>publics</em>, but our private h.s. almost always requires the exam in order to get credit for the class itself. There was a situation a couple of years ago involving an accommodated student. Parent pleaded for waiver of test requirement. School administration left the decision up to 2 individual teachers involved. One said o.k., but was not happy about it. The other refused to waive the exam. The bigger question in this particular case was why the student was taking AP's to begin with: she had no business taking them, giving her particular LD. She shouldn't have been in the <em>courses</em>, never mind the exams.</p>
<p>School profiles are definitely a consideration when it comes to exam requirement. Every year our school publishes and brags about the percent of each AP exam passed, course by course.</p>
<p>I don't know how closely AP eligibility is monitored at publics in your various regions. It's terrible at the publics in my region: average students being allowed to take AP Bio as freshmen, etc. (And they always do badly) But again, I see no point in requiring the exam unless one is also being selective about the class. Lots of 1's and 2's (with usually corresponding D's and F's) is hardly a bragging point.</p>
<p>I agree that the problem lies in allowing some students to take the course if they are clearly not right for it. I do believe that if a student takes the course s/he needs to take the exam. Especially since the scores don't come out until the summer, which means that if seniors are taking the courses, it can seem that this is just to pad their transcript. Decisions about colleges are made long before the tests are even taken. Without the expectation, at least, that they need to sit for the exam, there is no motivation to do well until the end of the course, and it can easily be blown off.</p>
<p>Why would any kids take an AP class and put that much work into it if not motivated?<br>
Why take AP English when Honors or college prep English would do just fine?
Is course rigor lacking? If so then how are kids able to get 5's?</p>
<p>I've often wondered about seniors padding their final year schedule when they take 5-6+ AP classes. Heaven help 'em if senioritis sets in big time.</p>
<p>Our HS stipulates that if a student takes an AP course, they must take the test or else they will forfeit the weighted GPA (A=5.00 and so on) that comes with the class. Lots of teeth gnashing over it but it was made very clear up front. This has resulted in more students taking the test, although at $86 a pop this year times four (Physics C requires TWO tests), it does hit the pocketbook BUT if it makes a difference in scholarship competition or completing the BA early, it's well worth the cost.</p>
<p>My D's public high school requires anyone who takes an AP course to take the AP exam. The one exception of which I'm aware is AP Spanish - for reasons unknown to me that one is not required. The school does not subsidize the cost of the test at all, so a student who wants to take an AP course must pay for the AP test. The school does post the results as part of its profile, and has an 86% pass rate, with 34% getting 5's, 30% getting 4's and 22% getting 3's.</p>
<p>ETA: Not just anyone can take an AP course at this HS, so they're not using the test requirement to weed out less serious students. There are prerequisites and teacher recommendation requirements. For instance, you can't take AP English unless you've previously taken English 3 Honors (which means you have to be a senior), got an A in that class and also have a teacher recommendation; you can't take AP Euro or World History unless you got A's in both semesters of freshman social studies and have a teacher recommendation; you can't take APUSH unless you took a prior AP social studies class and got an A or B, etc. FWIW, an AP course gets an extra 0.5 for GPA purposes. I've heard of no bump and bumps of 1.0 or more, so this appears to be in the middle.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>The school does not subsidize the cost of the test at all, so a student who wants to take an AP course must pay for the AP test.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>This really works against having economic diversity in the group of AP kids! Why should a poor kid not have the opportunity to take a full schedule of AP classes just because his parents can't afford the $400 for tests? For some families, $400 is the difference between eating and not eating.</p>
<p>our district now requires students to take the tests. My daughter who attended an inner city school took three tests and four AP classes. </p>
<p>It was $86 for each test, although if you qualify for FRL th</p>
<p>I would like to reply to several of you:
1-I personally am not concerned about the fee for its own sake, but when kids are taking 4-6 courses in a year this can amount to real money that may be a deterrent for some even if they are not on free lunch program.</p>
<p>2-While I have seen this requirement adopted I have not seen an improvement in the quality of teaching. In our school the teaching is spotty, in some AP classes the teachers do a great job in others the class is pretty close to independent study with minimal teaching at all. Paying for required testing in these classes seems like a waste all the way around. I will tell you that this opinion about teaching is an issue that I have heard from some of the most dedicated students in the school not just from those without the aptitude or motivation.</p>
<p>3- AP eligibility has been a subject that has been discussed at the district level. Currently any student can enroll in an AP class if they have passed the preequisite courses. The question has been raised about how and if these classes should be restricted. During any meeting that I have participated in there has never been a good answer about how to restrict class participation and I think this rule may be an attempt to do this. Oddly enough aside from the pricetag the only students truly negatively affected by a poor score are the strongest students whose overall AP average is lowered by a test that they aren't prepared for thus possibly disqualifying they from some of the AP scholar awards. </p>
<p>4-I would love it if every class was well taught and kids had the preparation to go into the test whether or not they ended up doing well. I agree with JustAMom the AP program should be about more than scores, it should be about preparing kid for college. I would still however be concerned about what impact the cost may have on some students.</p>
<p>5-While I can see that strong teaching could motivate schools to require testing I am having a hard time seeing how the test requirement will improve the teaching. I would respect the efforts of our district more if the focus was on teaching quality control first and testing second rather than the reverse. </p>
<p>Having said all of this, if the testing requirement has improved the quality of the AP program in your school I would be interested in learning how one has impacted the other. This is a new policy and I am trying to see the wisdom in it. As several have said and also seems to be the case at our school, the priority seems to be the number of students taking the tests and not on the quality of the outcome or the teaching.</p>