<p>At our public high school, the AP exam is not required even to qualify for the "AP weight" in GPA. Students must obtain the approval of their current teacher to register for an AP level class the following year. As far as I can tell, most students in all subject areas score fairly well -- a testament to the quality of teachers we have for AP courses in our school and also realistic expectations of students and their GCs when registering.</p>
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when kids are taking 4-6 courses in a year this can amount to real money
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I'll say. This year, only one $86 fee; next year I'm facing $430, if the price doesn't increase.</p>
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While I can see that strong teaching could motivate schools to require testing I am having a hard time seeing how the test requirement will improve the teaching. I would respect the efforts of our district more if the focus was on teaching quality control first and testing second rather than the reverse.
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If you have a teacher whose students regularly do poorly on the exams, it's pretty simple to do some observations and see what the problem is. Either the students aren't prepared, the curriculum isn't appropriate or the teacher isn't teaching the curriculum. </p>
<p>I'm pretty sure that even students who aren't on free (or reduced) lunch may be able to ask for help paying for the APs. I know that the PTA and Educational Foundation offer money for expenses like this.</p>
<p>I know that the private schools where my kids went, would pay the AP fees if someone said they had trouble paying for them. Some of the public schools here also offer assistance. </p>
<p>However, there were some teachers that I knew who had year after year of poor AP exam results but they were still kept at one school I know. Another school has taken the AP designation off of a number of their courses, but kids can take the AP exam if they want to do so, and supplemental prep courses are given if they sign up for the exam. The private schools we used did not require that kids take the Ap exams if they did not want to do so, even if they were enrolled in an AP course. However, most all kids did, from what I was told.</p>
<p>Same at our school -- if you qualify for free lunch, you test for free. The issue is for kids who don't qualify for free lunch but are smart enough to take five AP courses and can't afford the testing fees. But I think our school works with those kids on a case by case basis as best they can. Some years ago, there was a bad year at our school where one course was very poorly taught. The kids went on strike and said they would not take the exam and get low scores -- the reason being that the contract to take the exam implied they would be prepared for the exam and they had not been. The school got the message.</p>
<p>oh *&^, I didn't see my post edited itself.</p>
<p>What I wanted to say was- Ds school didn't weight grades, she took four classes and three tests, only because it was required by district.
She isn't planning on using scores to place out of anything.
Each test is $86, if you qualify for FRL, you get a discount, although other schools do have the PTA subsidize tests for all that ask, her school PTA does not do that.
It was a lot of money, especially when I consider that both my girls limited their college applications because of costs.</p>
<p>A friend was a proctor for IB testing at the high school her D attends. It sounds like the procedure is quite different for IB.</p>
<p>At our high school, some teachers require the AP exam -- and others provide a significant incentive, in that students who take the AP exam take it in lieu of otherwise taking a final several weeks later. Some AP classes actually end class as of the day of the exam -- kids go to enough Saturday School to prep for the exam so that they have met the hours requirement. I'd say that the kids LOVE that option, and consider the test a small price to pay.</p>
<p>And on price -- in our district, free or reduced lunch kids get automatic fee waivers for the exam, but we have a soft fee subsidy system that basically allows any student from a family who states that it would be a hardship to get the fees paid out of the money that is fund-raised to support the program. It is a relatively affluent public school, so there aren't a huge number of kids who need this, but it is there. (Same for kids who need help buying required lit books, or a graphing calculator.)</p>
<p>I'm of two minds about the requirement: One mind says that now that some schools want to know every single test grade you earned, letting kids opt out of an exam that they feel strongly that they won't do well on is a good idea. The other mind says that in order to know whether or not we're doing a good job teaching the class, we need to know how kids really do on the test.</p>
<p>I know I am in the minority but I don't get the requirement. At our public HS students can take the AP class if they meet the prerequistes (usually taking the previous honors or AP class and getting a B or better). The AP teachers assign homework the summer before the class which weeds out the group fairly effectively.<br>
The test costs $86. and is optional. My children have taken some of them and not others. We have one teacher who doesn't do well with an AP math class. DS took the test and got a 1 despite an A in the class. I had to then pay more to supress that grade from his colleges. DD has the same class now with the same teacher. Guess what...she isn't taking the AP exam.<br>
I fail to see how requiring the exam would automatically mean that kids would score better on the test. If the teaching is spotty or the students aren't well prepared for the test, requiring it will not change their scores.</p>
<p>I fail to see how requiring the exam would automatically mean that kids would score better on the test</p>
<p>It doesn't but now that we have Newsweeks listing of high schools, that are ranked depending on how many AP tests students take ( not their test scores), we have more districts and schools encouraging the tests.</p>
<p>My daughters school doesn't weight AP scores- but I think colleges took that into consideration</p>
<p>Archiemom: I want my kids to go to your school!</p>
<p>"The private schools we used did not require that kids take the Ap exams if they did not want to do so, even if they were enrolled in an AP course. However, most all kids did, from what I was told. "</p>
<p>This matches what I suggested when this policy was being discussed at a district meeting. I took a Field of Dreams approach to this.....If you teach them they will test. Apparently no one bought that arugment.</p>
<p>"The kids went on strike and said they would not take the exam and get low scores -- the reason being that the contract to take the exam implied they would be prepared for the exam and they had not been. The school got the message. "</p>
<p>Some of our students are taking a similar approach to specific classes but we don't know how that will go yet.</p>
<p>I'm sorry I haven't yet figured out how to copy and paste a part of a post so that you get the gray background.</p>
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I know I am in the minority but I don't get the requirement.
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<p>Why not? You can't lose, unless you are paying for the test. Then you lose money.
The only reason I can see is that a student takes an AP class solely to get the extra weighting for the GPA. At my kids public school AP courses are weighted very little. The extra is only 10% of the gpa of the grade. A B in the class weights to only a 3.3 so they would be better off taking the honors course and getting an A.
Grade weighting aside - there is no reason to sign up for an AP course with the intention of NOT taking the test, especially in the senior year. IMO.</p>
<p>Requiring the test doesn't mean kids will score better. It means everyone has a stake in the score. An AP program that supports the teachers with proper training can be successful - even for "regular" college bound kids. Our principal reports to the school board the results of each year - this makes the teachers accountable. The classes with the lowest scores are usually those taught by a teacher in the first year or two of teaching AP - after that the scores are pretty good and usually 3/4 pass.</p>
<p>I would rather see that "one kid" take the test and pass it and go to college with a little confidence that he/she can pass a college class and two other fail it than have none of them take the test at all.</p>
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We have one teacher who doesn't do well with an AP math class. DS took the test and got a 1 despite an A in the class.... I fail to see how requiring the exam would automatically mean that kids would score better on the test.
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<p>The point of requiring the test is for the school district to realize that whatever that teacher is teaching, it isn't AP Calculus-- otherwise students who got As in the class wouldn't get 1s on the exam. The school can then get a teacher who can teach the material, or call the class something else so that students and parents aren't mislead, or instruct the teacher not to give As to students who evidently have only a passing familiarity with calculus.</p>
<p>On the one hand, how the high school weights affects class ranking. On the other hand, colleges may use their own ranking methods to calculate a student's GPA, which may differ from the high school's individual method. A student can therefore play the game in many different ways, depending on their high school and on where the student will apply for college. </p>
<p>All of this and the money outlay (figure more like $100 a course when you throw in an AP study guide or two per course) makes me yearn for the good old days of my youth. None of this teaching to the test, no AP study guides, just a pile of books for the course and your own effort. Plus, we had to walk uphill to the test both ways, through a freezing snowstorm, to sit in a cardboard box, and use our own blood as ink. :D</p>
<p>Making the kids take the exam does not bring up the scores directly. The reason schools want everyone to take the exam, is because it enhances the quality of the school profile if the it states that a large percentage of those taking the AP exams get a 3 or above. Now of course that statement has to be true. So once you get the kids all taking the exam, you can evaluate the course and the teacher. It really is not that hard to get most of the kids getting at least a 3 if the top kids are taking the course and if the teacher is teaching to pass the test. It also makes the teacher toe the line and keep to the syllabus, something they really hate to do, especially in the humanities courses. It also places some accountability on the teachers' heads. </p>
<p>Of course what usually happens is that these districts and teachers start gatekeeping like crazy so that only kids who test well and are good students are allowed in the AP courses. In our public school district the requirement to take some AP courses requires the kids to sit for a test. Ridiculous.</p>
<p>My kids have taken many AP's through our state's publicly funded virtual school. Up until this year, taking the exam was not a requirement. The state paid for the exams, too, so there has been no charge to us. For the first time this May, students will be required to take the exam and present documentation proving that they were present on exam day. One may still opt not to take the exam, but then the course will not recorded as AP level on the transcript. They will designate it as an honors course. I understand requiring the exam, in a way, but I do not get how they can deny the AP level for the coursework on the transcript if the student has done all the AP level work.</p>
<p>Isn't it possible for the district and adminstration to learn about the quality of teaching without this expense. Couldn't they use prior year's tests as a gauge? I know you can't base all of your information on the student's comments but I know the school and teachers could learn lots from what they have to say about the way some classes are taught.</p>
<p>What is the purpose of taking an AP course?
The purpose is to pass the test and (hopefully) earn college credit and show the student can handle academic rigor.</p>
<p>One can only demonstrate this by taking and passing the test - our high school education system varies widely from state to state and school to school. AP tests are a great equalizer. </p>
<p>Honestly if I was an adcom and a student took an AP test as a junior I would wonder why. Could not afford the expense? Fear of failure? Too lazy to study?
If an otherwise motivated student takes an AP class and blows off the test - I would not think too highly of that.<br>
For seniors - it's a no brainer, take the test. There is nothing to lose.</p>
<p>I think tracking AP results is a good way of measuring the success of the class and the competence of the teachers. The teachers at our school really care about those scores. They know that the test reflects the whole year and is the ultimate measure of whether they taught the material well. Of course, once in a while, a group of flaky students will ruin the scores of even a good teacher -- which is why it's good to try to weed those students out.</p>
<p>I'm not in favor of schools doing huge gatekeeping to ensure that only the very top students take APs. Students who want to take the classes, and who are more or less qualified, should be allowed to take them. But they shouldn't automatically pass! They shouldn't automatically get good grades!</p>
<p>If a student gets an A in an AP, and then subsequently can only manage a 1 on a AP test, someone has been cheating. Either the student cheated to get the A, or the teacher cheated his/her employers and the student by failing to teach the material and then awarding an A when the student should have gotten a failing grade.</p>
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Of course what usually happens is that these districts and teachers start gatekeeping like crazy so that only kids who test well and are good students are allowed in the AP courses. In our public school district the requirement to take some AP courses requires the kids to sit for a test. Ridiculous.
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Our school has done this both for honors and AP classes. (I think just English and history.) Since the tests are graded by someone other than the regular teacher it means that if you had a bad fit with a teacher one year, you can still ace the exam and take the course. If you insist you can generally take the course anyway.</p>
<p>I agree that a teacher whose students are all getting 1s on the calculus exam isn't teaching AP Calculus. In fact I can't figure out how you could teach so little calculus that getting 1's would be a common occurrence, certainly not among the A students.</p>